Need help cycling a new tank

FortyFour · 06/23/2018, 09:10 PM

I’m trying to prevent a disaster and would appreciate some input from a few folks, if possible.

I’m relocating across the country and I’m setting up a new tank. I decided to keep my existing fish, and sell my existing tank/rock/equip. So it’s been a race against the clock to get my new tank set up so that it’s ready when my fish arrive Wednesday morning.

A month ago I started cycling dry rock using bio spira and feeding ammonia via frozen fish, plus water changes. A few weeks later ammonia read as 0 so I saw that as a good sign that my rocks were ready. I had another friend put 2 big blocks of marinepure in his established tank as a way to help stabilize my new setup one I could figure out the right time to add them

Last week I set up my new tank (140G total). I saved the water that my rock had been curing in and added that to the tank. I added 3 bags of live sand. Did not add the marine pure yet. I started the Red Sea Pro kit to confirm that I had a full cycle. I don’t think I gave myself enough time, And I had an issue with the new tank’s plumbing to compound the situation.

My ammonia spiked, then dropped (not quiet zero). Tonight, nitrites and nitrates were through the roof. I’m planning on continuing the Red area Pro regime, but I don’t think the tank will be fully cycled by Wednesday when m fish arrive.

Should I add those established marine pure blocks? Should I add Dr. Tim’s? More time would be the best advice but I don’t have much of that. If I have to I will try to set up a QT tank to buy time, but if there is any other advice you think would help, it would be appreciated.

Anemone · 06/24/2018, 12:12 AM

How many fish? It would be easier to buy a smaller tank to house the fish and do large percentage water changes while you wait for the DT to finish cycling than anything else.

Kevin

FortyFour · 06/24/2018, 01:01 AM

6 fish. The largest is a melenarus wrasse.

Any suggestions if I am unable to set up the QT tank? I’m currently out of state and it’s likely the fish will beat me home. If nitrites and nitrates are both spiked, and ammonia is very low, what are the chances that 3-4 more days is enough?

mcgyvr · 06/24/2018, 06:27 AM

Did you already add the cycled rock? or just the sand?
"live sand" typically contains a large quantity of "dead" in it and can cause a spike in some situations..

If you added the rock I would just throw in the marine pure blocks now, do a large water change and then give it that few days and see how it goes..

If you continue the red sea stuff I would only do the nitro bac product.
You could use some Dr Tims all in one if you have that too..
But no more ammonia sources or the bactostart..

FortyFour · 06/25/2018, 12:05 AM

Yes the live rock is in. Going to add the marine pure blocks tomorrow and will have some Dr. Tim’s on hand that the wife can add if the fish beat me home.

I’m shipping the fish overnight from San Diego to Denver and will be driving my car up immediately after.

This thread is making me cringe.

FortyFour · 06/26/2018, 11:47 AM

So I arrived with the fish and they look to be doing well. I have them in a separate bin with about 15 G of water. 2 blocks of established marine pure is in the sump as of yesterday.

My display tank just tested ammonia at .2. Nitrites and nitrates are through the roof.

Should I keep the fish in the QT been and let this play out? Or I have Dr. Tim’s. With my current readings, do you think I should do a large water change, add the dr. Tim’s, and add the fish?
@mcgyvr @Anemone

mcgyvr · 06/26/2018, 11:52 AM

Keep them in QT.. and wait..
Nitrite while not as toxic as ammonia is still somewhat toxic...
Best to keep them in QT and perform routine water changes there to keep ammonia away..

To me this is exactly why you don't use "live sand" (in this type of situation specifically and likely across the board)... It seems to be the only thing that caused your tank to restart its cycle as its the only addition that must have included sufficient die off..

FortyFour · 06/26/2018, 12:05 PM

Am I at risk of the marine pure blocks completely crashing my tank? Do I have to feed them? Thanks for the perspective.
@mcgyvr

mcgyvr · 06/26/2018, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FortyFour

Am I at risk of the marine pure blocks completely crashing my tank? Do I have to feed them? Thanks for the perspective.
@mcgyvr

huh?
Why would the marine pure blocks do anything?
They are just "artificial" rock...
They do not need to be fed and should just be treated like any other rock..

FortyFour · 06/26/2018, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

huh?
Why would the marine pure blocks do anything?
They are just "artificial" rock...
They do not need to be fed and should just be treated like any other rock..

I was thinking they would have been alive with bacteria since they’ve been in a mature tank and since they are now in a fishless tank (mid cycle) that they could die off and put me further out of whack.

I’m going to be patient with this but adding Dr. Tim’s wouldn’t hurt right?

Thanks.

mcgyvr · 06/26/2018, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FortyFour

I was thinking they would have been alive with bacteria since they’ve been in a mature tank and since they are now in a fishless tank (mid cycle) that they could die off and put me further out of whack.

I’m going to be patient with this but adding Dr. Tim’s wouldn’t hurt right?

Thanks.

Studies have shown that bacteria can live a year or more without any food source/food input..
Not to mention think about that "bacteria in bottle" you have purchased.. If your thinking was true it would consume any available food in that bottle in a short time and you would just be buying a bottle of dead bacteria..
Most that I've seen have a 1 year or more "shelf life" and are still active/useful at that time..

Personally at this point I wouldn't add anymore "products" at all to the tank..
I would only top off with fresh water to account for evaporation..
Some people report fantastic results with Dr.Tims and others don't seem to notice the difference..
Best to just wait and keep those fish in QT until the tank is ready.. They are likely already stressed from moving.. No need to stress them further in a tank of partly toxic water..

Patience... NOTHING good happens fast in this hobby.. NOTHING..

FortyFour · 06/26/2018, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

Studies have shown that bacteria can live a year or more without any food source/food input..
Not to mention think about that "bacteria in bottle" you have purchased.. If your thinking was true it would consume any available food in that bottle in a short time and you would just be buying a bottle of dead bacteria..
Most that I've seen have a 1 year or more "shelf life" and are still active/useful at that time..

Personally at this point I wouldn't add anymore "products" at all to the tank..
I would only top off with fresh water to account for evaporation..
Some people report fantastic results with Dr.Tims and others don't seem to notice the difference..
Best to just wait and keep those fish in QT until the tank is ready.. They are likely already stressed from moving.. No need to stress them further in a tank of partly toxic water..

Patience... NOTHING good happens fast in this hobby.. NOTHING..

Yea, I’m going to keep them in QT and monitor the display.

Since ammonia spiked and then dropped, I’m going to wait for it to zero out, followed by nitrites. Then I’ll do a water change to lower nitrates before adding the fish.

Now that I think about it, I inherited an established tank a long time ago so this is my first cycle.

FortyFour · 06/27/2018, 12:19 PM

@mcgyvr is it normal for both nitrites and nitrates to register off the charts simultaneously, and what should I expect next? Should I do a water change?

mcgyvr · 06/27/2018, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FortyFour

@mcgyvr is it normal for both nitrites and nitrates to register off the charts simultaneously, and what should I expect next? Should I do a water change?

Yes it is normal IMO for those that "overdo" it on the "cycle me fast" products..

IMO if your nitrates are "off the charts" you put way too much ammonia/decomposing matter,etc... into the tank to start with..
Personally while I routinely say 2ppm I think its just overkill to get your tank to more than .5-1ppm of ammonia during a cycling attempt..

All that "Crap" is just going to end up giving you high nitrate levels that you need to just do a ton of water changes to remove post cycle..

Its also why I highly recommend water changes during cycling if your nitrates start to get over like 30-40ppm or so..

FortyFour · 06/27/2018, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

Yes it is normal IMO for those that "overdo" it on the "cycle me fast" products..

IMO if your nitrates are "off the charts" you put way too much ammonia/decomposing matter,etc... into the tank to start with..
Personally while I routinely say 2ppm I think its just overkill to get your tank to more than .5-1ppm of ammonia during a cycling attempt..

All that "Crap" is just going to end up giving you high nitrate levels that you need to just do a ton of water changes to remove post cycle..

Its also why I highly recommend water changes during cycling if your nitrates start to get over like 30-40ppm or so..

Since ammonia is zeroed out I’m going to do a 50% change and see where that takes me on the rest. Think I’ll need to do more?

Thanks for the comments. It’s been stressful given the time constraints and logistics moving the fish 1100 miles or so.

mcgyvr · 06/27/2018, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FortyFour

Since ammonia is zeroed out I’m going to do a 50% change and see where that takes me on the rest. Think I’ll need to do more?

Well.. Fish only right? Fish can tolerate much higher levels of nitrates than corals seem to do well in...
If you are "off the charts" then 50% is probably the least amount you might want to change.. In fact it may take multiple 50% changes to get you to an acceptable level depending on where you are really..

FortyFour · 06/27/2018, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

Well.. Fish only right? Fish can tolerate much higher levels of nitrates than corals seem to do well in...
If you are "off the charts" then 50% is probably the least amount you might want to change.. In fact it may take multiple 50% changes to get you to an acceptable level depending on where you are really..

Well, I have the 6 fish plus a small amount of mushroom and richordia I’d like to survive. I’m not as concerned with those right now because I can give them away if needed.

Do you think the tank is cycled, and I’m at the stage where I need to clean up via water changes? Or do the nitrites suggest I need more time?

mcgyvr · 06/28/2018, 04:23 AM

Nitrites suggests more time..
I don't consider a tank to be cycled until both ammonia and nitrites is zero..

You can however start doing water changes as I said above..

FortyFour · 07/02/2018, 09:31 AM

Nitrites are zero. I had to ease in my livestock (6 fish). Everything looking good so far.

Thanks for all of your help. Will take it slow from here.

06/23/2018, 09:10 PM	#1
FortyFour Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 371	Need help cycling a new tank I’m trying to prevent a disaster and would appreciate some input from a few folks, if possible. I’m relocating across the country and I’m setting up a new tank. I decided to keep my existing fish, and sell my existing tank/rock/equip. So it’s been a race against the clock to get my new tank set up so that it’s ready when my fish arrive Wednesday morning. A month ago I started cycling dry rock using bio spira and feeding ammonia via frozen fish, plus water changes. A few weeks later ammonia read as 0 so I saw that as a good sign that my rocks were ready. I had another friend put 2 big blocks of marinepure in his established tank as a way to help stabilize my new setup one I could figure out the right time to add them Last week I set up my new tank (140G total). I saved the water that my rock had been curing in and added that to the tank. I added 3 bags of live sand. Did not add the marine pure yet. I started the Red Sea Pro kit to confirm that I had a full cycle. I don’t think I gave myself enough time, And I had an issue with the new tank’s plumbing to compound the situation. My ammonia spiked, then dropped (not quiet zero). Tonight, nitrites and nitrates were through the roof. I’m planning on continuing the Red area Pro regime, but I don’t think the tank will be fully cycled by Wednesday when m fish arrive. Should I add those established marine pure blocks? Should I add Dr. Tim’s? More time would be the best advice but I don’t have much of that. If I have to I will try to set up a QT tank to buy time, but if there is any other advice you think would help, it would be appreciated.

06/24/2018, 12:12 AM	#2
Anemone Cloning Around Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Valencia, California Posts: 25,267	How many fish? It would be easier to buy a smaller tank to house the fish and do large percentage water changes while you wait for the DT to finish cycling than anything else. Kevin __________________ Back in the pool, swimming with the sharks... Current Tank Info: Red Sea 425XL w/Kessil AP700, Vertex 180i Skimmer, 2 x Vortech MP40s

06/24/2018, 06:27 AM	#4
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	Did you already add the cycled rock? or just the sand? "live sand" typically contains a large quantity of "dead" in it and can cause a spike in some situations.. If you added the rock I would just throw in the marine pure blocks now, do a large water change and then give it that few days and see how it goes.. If you continue the red sea stuff I would only do the nitro bac product. You could use some Dr Tims all in one if you have that too.. But no more ammonia sources or the bactostart.. __________________ Who me?

06/26/2018, 11:52 AM	#7
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	Keep them in QT.. and wait.. Nitrite while not as toxic as ammonia is still somewhat toxic... Best to keep them in QT and perform routine water changes there to keep ammonia away.. To me this is exactly why you don't use "live sand" (in this type of situation specifically and likely across the board)... It seems to be the only thing that caused your tank to restart its cycle as its the only addition that must have included sufficient die off.. __________________ Who me?

06/28/2018, 04:23 AM	#18
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	Nitrites suggests more time.. I don't consider a tank to be cycled until both ammonia and nitrites is zero.. You can however start doing water changes as I said above.. __________________ Who me?

06/24/2018, 01:01 AM	#3
FortyFour Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 371	6 fish. The largest is a melenarus wrasse. Any suggestions if I am unable to set up the QT tank? I’m currently out of state and it’s likely the fish will beat me home. If nitrites and nitrates are both spiked, and ammonia is very low, what are the chances that 3-4 more days is enough?

06/25/2018, 12:05 AM	#5
FortyFour Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 371	Yes the live rock is in. Going to add the marine pure blocks tomorrow and will have some Dr. Tim’s on hand that the wife can add if the fish beat me home. I’m shipping the fish overnight from San Diego to Denver and will be driving my car up immediately after. This thread is making me cringe.

06/26/2018, 11:47 AM	#6
FortyFour Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 371	So I arrived with the fish and they look to be doing well. I have them in a separate bin with about 15 G of water. 2 blocks of established marine pure is in the sump as of yesterday. My display tank just tested ammonia at .2. Nitrites and nitrates are through the roof. Should I keep the fish in the QT been and let this play out? Or I have Dr. Tim’s. With my current readings, do you think I should do a large water change, add the dr. Tim’s, and add the fish? @mcgyvr @Anemone

06/26/2018, 12:05 PM	#8
FortyFour Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 371	Am I at risk of the marine pure blocks completely crashing my tank? Do I have to feed them? Thanks for the perspective. @mcgyvr

06/27/2018, 12:19 PM	#13
FortyFour Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 371	@mcgyvr is it normal for both nitrites and nitrates to register off the charts simultaneously, and what should I expect next? Should I do a water change?

07/02/2018, 09:31 AM	#19
FortyFour Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 371	Nitrites are zero. I had to ease in my livestock (6 fish). Everything looking good so far. Thanks for all of your help. Will take it slow from here.