Head pressure limits.

[marcom12345]

Does the diameter of the outlet line effect the max head height?

Like, if it's rated at 8ft.... If you reduce line diameter will it be 10ft? Or 12ft?

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[marcom12345]

No input?

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[mcgyvr]

Reducing the output will reduce the max achievable head height..

[marcom12345]

So a bigger diameter increases it?

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[slief]

Originally Posted by marcom12345

So a bigger diameter increases it?

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Larger diameter pipe and fittings decreases friction losses which reduces overall head pressure. In essence, the larger the diameter the better in terms of reducing overall head pressure above and beyond actual head height. I always upsize plumbing coming out of the pump whenever possible to reduce friction losses. In the case of my return pumps on my tank which has a 1.5” output, I plumbed it with 2” all the way to the top of the tank where it splits off from the 2” pipe into a pair of 1” outlets coming off the 2” pipe. And it’s not just the output which increases friction losses but every fitting you have inline whether it’s valves or elbows. Upsizing the plumbing and using bigger fittings between the pump and display will help reduce friction losses resulting in greater flow from the pump.

[marcom12345]

I guess the driver behind the question is....

I'll have my RODI water in the basement.... It would be nice to just pump it to the upstairs for water changes and top off. While I won't cheap out on a pump, I'd like to stretch my dollar for that application as far as possible.

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[mcgyvr]

Originally Posted by marcom12345

So a bigger diameter increases it?

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The correct size allows it to reach its maximum potential..
Go smaller and you reduce its maximum potential..
Go larger than some point and you don't increase it over its maximum potential just allow it to get to that..

Buy a pump rated to pump up to the next floor and use the largest size pipe its rated for..
aka if its got a 1-1/2" output size but reducers/adapters come with it for 3/4 to 1-1/2" pipe on the output don't use 3/4 if you expect to get the max head out of it.. use the 1-1/2

[marcom12345]

Ok great thanks

Does horizontal runs count? Or just vertical?

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[mcgyvr]

Originally Posted by marcom12345

Ok great thanks

Does horizontal runs count? Or just vertical?

Horizontal runs still add friction losses and will reduce total maximum height potential..

[LPS_Blasto]

Originally Posted by slief

Larger diameter pipe and fittings decreases friction losses which reduces overall head pressure. In essence, the larger the diameter the better in terms of reducing overall head pressure above and beyond actual head height. I always upsize plumbing coming out of the pump whenever possible to reduce friction losses. In the case of my return pumps on my tank which has a 1.5” output, I plumbed it with 2” all the way to the top of the tank where it splits off from the 2” pipe into a pair of 1” outlets coming off the 2” pipe. And it’s not just the output which increases friction losses but every fitting you have inline whether it’s valves or elbows. Upsizing the plumbing and using bigger fittings between the pump and display will help reduce friction losses resulting in greater flow from the pump.

Just an opbservation - not criticizing you in any way. This is just info, in case people don't realize it.

You can actually feed (4) of the 1" pipes with a 2" main line.
See crude picture attached. It's not to scale, but you get the idea.
The circle on the left is a 2" pipe and it can feed 4 of the 1" lines.
The circle on the right shows the extra flow you have, when splitting a 2" pipe into only 2 of the 1" lines.

Obviously, there is a velocity increase when splitting into only 2 pipes. So running as you did, you'll get great flow from the pump up to the split. You've reduced friction by oversizing the pipe. This is good. That will give solid flow all the way up to the split. Then you get an increase in velocity at the discharge -- when only splitting into 2 pipes. Sometimes this is what we want. Maybe this was your plan? It would help to move water and create current.

Hope this helps.

[_Mackus_]

Originally Posted by marcom12345

I guess the driver behind the question is....

I'll have my RODI water in the basement.... It would be nice to just pump it to the upstairs for water changes and top off. While I won't cheap out on a pump, I'd like to stretch my dollar for that application as far as possible.

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I just added a pump (Mag 18) in my basement to pump water change water up to my display. Danner recommends using 1.5" ID pipe for max GPH at various feet of head pressure, but I didn't want to drill a 2"+ wide hole in my floor, so I used 1" ID pipe plumbed into the 3/4" NPT threads on the pump via an adapter and a couple feet of PVC pipe and hoped I'd get enough pressure. Works like a charm, wish I had done it years ago. It takes maybe 2 minutes to pump 16 gallons of water into my display (so maybe 500 GPH?). Its just for water changes, not my return, so I don't need more than that.

I'm going up one story, probably around about 12 feet total vertical distance from the pump in the bottom of a brute container to the U-tube going over the top edge of my display. There is also some horizontal distance to cover. Rather than use hard PVC with elbows or 45deg connectors that reduce the head pressure, I bought flexible black pipe from Marine Depot. Feel free to PM if you want to know exactly what I bought, I can send you links. Got the whole thing set up for ~$250. No more buckets!

For ATO, I've got a BRS 50 mL/min dosing pump set up with a float valve to top off whenever the water level gets low.

[hkgar]

Not fsure what pump you are asking about, I may have missed it, but this might help.

http://reefcentral.com/index.php/head-loss-calculator

[Marcom12]

Originally Posted by hkgar

Not fsure what pump you are asking about, I may have missed it, but this might help.

http://reefcentral.com/index.php/head-loss-calculator

i dont have a pump picked out yet i wanted to find out the details before picking one

[Marcom12]

But thank you for the link

[ca1ore]

Let's say a pump is rated for 15' of head pressure. Assuming the manufacturer didn't just pull the number out of the air, it's presumably the point at which flow stops though a specified length of pipe (I'd guess 1" nominally). I would think that upsizing that run of pipe would reduce the friction loss and increase the head height slightly. Certainly at height below max., upsizing plumbing makes a sizable difference. On my system replacing 1" with 1 1/2" too from 950 gph at 15' to 1,250.

[hkgar]

My return pump is an Iwaki 100 rated at 2136 gph. I am getting a flow of about 620.. My sump is in the basement so it has about 8' vertical and 15' horizontal plus alot of 90 degree turns.