Thoughts on running skimmerless...

lpsouth1978 · 09/02/2018, 09:40 PM

I just did my weekly water change, at which time I noticed that my skimmer was not working properly. It is simply not producing good micro bubbles in the column. There are a ton coming out of the exit pipe, just not in the body. I took the skimmer out and scrubbed it fairly clean. Removed the pump, inspected it, cleaned it, and put everything back together. I then tested it again and it is not any better. I also noticed that if I block the air intake tube, the water rises in the reaction chamber, as it should, but the pump becomes very loud, starts clicking, and becomes almost useless.

I am thinking that there is something wrong with my skimmer pump, and I may need a replacement pump, or maybe just upgrade the skimmer. I cannot afford a new skimmer or pump right now, so can I go skimmerless for a time? Will it cause any issues in the tank? If I do go skimmerless, should I increase water changes? I have always had a skimmer before, and have always considered them a must have for a reef tank, but wonder if this is old thinking.

System info:

40b w/20L sump
Fuge w/chaeto (not doing very well)
Jebao DCP-8000 return pump
2 x Jebao OW-10 wave maker pumps
2 x AI Hydra 26HD w/DIY diffusers
150W heater

Temp - 78.5
SG - 1.026
pH - 8.3
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 5-10
Phosphate - ? (only have API for phosphate right now)
Calcium - 420
Alk - 8.5

2 x Black occellaris
Royal gramma
Diamond Watchman
Lawnmower Blenny
3 x Pajama Cardinals
Melanurus Wrasse
Duncans
Acans
Hammer
Frogspawn
Indo Gold tip Torch
Orange Mushrooms
Zoas
Rainbow BTA
Green Haddoni Carpet Anemone
Aussie Elegance Coral

Subsea · 09/03/2018, 05:12 AM

I have been skimmerless for more than 40 years. I disagree with the concept of skimming out free swimming bacteria for nutrient export. The “microbial loop” feeds the reef.

Why remove food that grows coral? Why not grow coral, then frag and sell coral for nutrient export.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FDt8QTAp0Cs

PS. Depending on your system design for air exchange, night time oxygen levels could drop without a protein skimmer. I use surface skimmer overflow to refugium to provide air exchange.

der_wille_zur_macht · 09/03/2018, 05:26 AM

Skimmerless is fine. However, you need to account for the functions it provides. Mainly nutrient export but also possibly aeration, if you don't have enough otherwise.

The way to run a skimmerless tank is to design it that way. Simply taking a skimmer off a working system is a bit of a crapshoot. More water changes is a good start. Also, troubleshoot that chaeto and see if you can get it to take off. Run a small amount of carbon if you're not already. Keep an eye on parameters and be ready to react if livestock starts looking poor.

Troubleshooting your skimmer might be easy too. I know you said you cleaned it but did you check the impeller carefully? A snail or but of sand stuck in a needlewheel will cause the behavior you're describing. Also check the venturi hole to be sure it's not blocked with salt creep.

newbie2014 · 09/03/2018, 06:29 AM

I’m new to saltwater tank. I run my 40B sumpless, and I took my skimmer off line about 18months ago. Never noticed any changes. I don’t run carbon either, but I have a reactor for emergency purpose. I change 5-10% water every week or two. It’s a softies/lps tank with a pair of medium size Clarkii, large royal gramma, large six-lined wrasse, plate size toadstool, two large purple tip hammer colony, fifteen head neon green trumpets, two zoa colonies, lots of GSP and Xenia.
There’s an experience reefer here who has a big mixed reef system and has gone skimmer less for 20+ years. His sump is empty and used for gas exchange and increased water volume.

Uncle99 · 09/03/2018, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by der_wille_zur_macht

Troubleshooting your skimmer might be easy too. I know you said you cleaned it but did you check the impeller carefully? A snail or but of sand stuck in a needlewheel will cause the behavior you're describing. Also check the venturi hole to be sure it's not blocked with salt creep.

My skimmer did the exact same thing. Drove me nuts. Always though it had something to do with the air intake at the impeller. Could blow air through the opening.....but finally when I put down a small drill into the air intake, a small piece of calcium dropped out, not big enough to stop air, only to restrict it.

Now I clean this piece every month

lpsouth1978 · 09/03/2018, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subsea

I have been skimmerless for more than 40 years. I disagree with the concept of skimming out free swimming bacteria for nutrient export. The “microbial loop” feeds the reef.

Why remove food that grows coral? Why not grow coral, then frag and sell coral for nutrient export.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FDt8QTAp0Cs

PS. Depending on your system design for air exchange, night time oxygen levels could drop without a protein skimmer. I use surface skimmer overflow to refugium to provide air exchange.

I use an Eshopps Eclipse overflow and have good surface agitation provided by the returns and 2 x Jebao OW-10's all pointed toward the surface.

Quote:

Originally Posted by der_wille_zur_macht

...Troubleshooting your skimmer might be easy too. I know you said you cleaned it but did you check the impeller carefully? A snail or but of sand stuck in a needlewheel will cause the behavior you're describing. Also check the venturi hole to be sure it's not blocked with salt creep.

I will take another good look at everything this morning to ensure there is no blockage or sand stuck in the needles. I don't have any snails, so that won't be an issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle99

My skimmer did the exact same thing. Drove me nuts. Always though it had something to do with the air intake at the impeller. Could blow air through the opening.....but finally when I put down a small drill into the air intake, a small piece of calcium dropped out, not big enough to stop air, only to restrict it.

Now I clean this piece every month

Thanks, I will check this out.

lpsouth1978 · 09/03/2018, 10:26 AM

Thank you all for the help and suggestions.

I just finished doing another inspection/cleaning of the pump. I double checked the venturi intake and found nothing wrong, there was no build up or blockage of the intake or the tube. Upon closer inspection of the needlewheel impeller, I found a single grain of sand stuck between 2 needles. I removed it and carefully scrubbed all of the needles. Everything seems to be working VERY well again. It is back to producing a nice thick foam.

Again, thank you all for the help.

09/02/2018, 09:40 PM	#1
lpsouth1978 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 915	Thoughts on running skimmerless... I just did my weekly water change, at which time I noticed that my skimmer was not working properly. It is simply not producing good micro bubbles in the column. There are a ton coming out of the exit pipe, just not in the body. I took the skimmer out and scrubbed it fairly clean. Removed the pump, inspected it, cleaned it, and put everything back together. I then tested it again and it is not any better. I also noticed that if I block the air intake tube, the water rises in the reaction chamber, as it should, but the pump becomes very loud, starts clicking, and becomes almost useless. I am thinking that there is something wrong with my skimmer pump, and I may need a replacement pump, or maybe just upgrade the skimmer. I cannot afford a new skimmer or pump right now, so can I go skimmerless for a time? Will it cause any issues in the tank? If I do go skimmerless, should I increase water changes? I have always had a skimmer before, and have always considered them a must have for a reef tank, but wonder if this is old thinking. System info: 40b w/20L sump Fuge w/chaeto (not doing very well) Jebao DCP-8000 return pump 2 x Jebao OW-10 wave maker pumps 2 x AI Hydra 26HD w/DIY diffusers 150W heater Temp - 78.5 SG - 1.026 pH - 8.3 Ammonia - 0 Nitrite - 0 Nitrate - 5-10 Phosphate - ? (only have API for phosphate right now) Calcium - 420 Alk - 8.5 2 x Black occellaris Royal gramma Diamond Watchman Lawnmower Blenny 3 x Pajama Cardinals Melanurus Wrasse Duncans Acans Hammer Frogspawn Indo Gold tip Torch Orange Mushrooms Zoas Rainbow BTA Green Haddoni Carpet Anemone Aussie Elegance Coral __________________ Current tank: 40B work in progress w/20L sump

09/03/2018, 05:12 AM	#2
Subsea Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Austin, Tx Posts: 1,882	I have been skimmerless for more than 40 years. I disagree with the concept of skimming out free swimming bacteria for nutrient export. The “microbial loop” feeds the reef. Why remove food that grows coral? Why not grow coral, then frag and sell coral for nutrient export. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FDt8QTAp0Cs PS. Depending on your system design for air exchange, night time oxygen levels could drop without a protein skimmer. I use surface skimmer overflow to refugium to provide air exchange. __________________ Laissez les bons temps rouler, Patrick Castille Current Tank Info: 10,000G. Greenhouse Macro Growout Last edited by Subsea; 09/03/2018 at 05:22 AM.

09/03/2018, 05:26 AM	#3
der_wille_zur_macht Team RC Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NY Posts: 17,749	Skimmerless is fine. However, you need to account for the functions it provides. Mainly nutrient export but also possibly aeration, if you don't have enough otherwise. The way to run a skimmerless tank is to design it that way. Simply taking a skimmer off a working system is a bit of a crapshoot. More water changes is a good start. Also, troubleshoot that chaeto and see if you can get it to take off. Run a small amount of carbon if you're not already. Keep an eye on parameters and be ready to react if livestock starts looking poor. Troubleshooting your skimmer might be easy too. I know you said you cleaned it but did you check the impeller carefully? A snail or but of sand stuck in a needlewheel will cause the behavior you're describing. Also check the venturi hole to be sure it's not blocked with salt creep. __________________ Inconveniencing marine life since 1992 "It is my personal belief that reef aquaria should be thriving communities of biodiversity, representative of their wild counterparts, and not merely collections of pretty specimens growing on tidy clean rock shelves covered in purple coralline algae." (Eric Borneman)

09/03/2018, 10:26 AM	#7
lpsouth1978 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 915	Thank you all for the help and suggestions. I just finished doing another inspection/cleaning of the pump. I double checked the venturi intake and found nothing wrong, there was no build up or blockage of the intake or the tube. Upon closer inspection of the needlewheel impeller, I found a single grain of sand stuck between 2 needles. I removed it and carefully scrubbed all of the needles. Everything seems to be working VERY well again. It is back to producing a nice thick foam. Again, thank you all for the help. __________________ Current tank: 40B work in progress w/20L sump

09/03/2018, 06:29 AM	#4
newbie2014 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 235	I’m new to saltwater tank. I run my 40B sumpless, and I took my skimmer off line about 18months ago. Never noticed any changes. I don’t run carbon either, but I have a reactor for emergency purpose. I change 5-10% water every week or two. It’s a softies/lps tank with a pair of medium size Clarkii, large royal gramma, large six-lined wrasse, plate size toadstool, two large purple tip hammer colony, fifteen head neon green trumpets, two zoa colonies, lots of GSP and Xenia. There’s an experience reefer here who has a big mixed reef system and has gone skimmer less for 20+ years. His sump is empty and used for gas exchange and increased water volume.