Chaeto in refugium VS Algae Turf Scrubber?

[tc2007]

As the title says, which one is more effective? I am not planning to build an ATS and a new one would be around $250 or so. If keeping chaeto in the refugium is enough, I am fine with it. Tank size would be around 135G + 50G sump.

[mcgyvr]

Either can be used...an ats likely has a bit of an advantage..
Neither is required for a successful tank

[Scrubber_steve]

Originally Posted by tc2007

As the title says, which one is more effective? I am not planning to build an ATS and a new one would be around $250 or so. If keeping chaeto in the refugium is enough, I am fine with it. Tank size would be around 135G + 50G sump.

An ATS will normally grow ulva. Ulva is a faster metabolising algae, some say 2;1 verse cheato.

ATS are also very precise (or should be) in regards to light spectrum & intensity .... per square inch of growth screen, unlike a fuge where there is no specifics in this regard.
The algae on an ATS growth screen is fully illuminated where as the underside of the chaeto doesn't recieve direct light, & the middle of a larger ball of chaeto recieves reduced light.

I do read a lot of people having trouble keeping chaeto alive, of it being out competed by hair algae, & necessarily needing certain nutrients such as iron to grow & survive. I've never had trouble with my ulva growing, even when not dosing any specific elements, & with NO3 at zero & PO4 at 0.02

[ABzReef]

Whats ats or uvla?

[Scrubber_steve]

Originally Posted by ABzReef

Whats ats or uvla?

ATS algae turf scrubber

ulva is a genus of algae

[Subsea]

Originally Posted by Twinfallz

An ATS will normally grow ulva. Ulva is a faster metabolising algae, some say 2;1 verse cheato.

ATS are also very precise (or should be) in regards to light spectrum & intensity .... per square inch of growth screen, unlike a fuge where there is no specifics in this regard.
The algae on an ATS growth screen is fully illuminated where as the underside of the chaeto doesn't recieve direct light, & the middle of a larger ball of chaeto recieves reduced light.

I do read a lot of people having trouble keeping chaeto alive, of it being out competed by hair algae, & necessarily needing certain nutrients such as iron to grow & survive. I've never had trouble with my ulva growing, even when not dosing any specific elements, & with NO3 at zero & PO4 at 0.02

Yes, ATS work well. In my macro growout tanks, I tumble culture ulva, thus removing shading macro on one side as a disadvantage. Tumble culture will clean off macro surface of biofilms and nuisance growth.

With respect to ulva and nitrogen uptake, I have found that ulva will uptake much nitrogen. If I dose nitrogen in a mixed tank of macro, ulva will dominate and outcompete nuisance soft fleshy hair algae.


PS. ULVA outgrew Chaeto easily 2:1 under Texas sun.

[Fourstars]

If you have a large enough area then cheato is so much easier, uses no power except the light, easier to maintain, less mess. I’ve used both and settle on a refuguim with cheato. I’ts the only filtration on my tank except for the occasional bag of carbon.

I do agree that ATS is more effective.

[tc2007]

Thanks for the responses. I think I will go with ATS. I had tried to grow Chaeto in the past in my sump with a red LED and it died in a few weeks probably due to lack of enough nutrients. I don't overfeed my tank at all.

[Scrubber_steve]

Originally Posted by Fourstars

If you have a large enough area then cheato is so much easier, uses no power except the light, easier to maintain, less mess. I’ve used both and settle on a refuguim with cheato. I’ts the only filtration on my tank except for the occasional bag of carbon.

I do agree that ATS is more effective.

I run my tank overflow through the scrubber, & then into the sump, so no power for a pump, just the LEDs.

No mess, very tidy. All the algae is contained in the scrubber, as is the light illuminating it. Scrape the excess algae off the growth screen & onto a plastic cutting board, then into the garden.

No dedicated fuge or room in the sump neded, &no light illuminating everything else.

My scrubber is also the only filtration I use other than some activated carbon.

I do agree that a fuge is less maintenance, But a scrubber screen only needs cleaning every 7 to 10 days (because the algae grows faster).

[Fourstars]

Originally Posted by tc2007

Thanks for the responses. I think I will go with ATS. I had tried to grow Chaeto in the past in my sump with a red LED and it died in a few weeks probably due to lack of enough nutrients. I don't overfeed my tank at all.

.

Either method will require you to learn to feed the tank, this was hard for me coming from the old school thought of running a nutrient starved tank. I also dose iron.

[ABzReef]

Thank you lol

[Michael Hoaster]

Twinfallz, your overflow-fed scrubber sounds very cool! Can you post a link to show how that setup works?

I agree, ulva is very productive. Plus it can be recycled as herbivore food. Your photo in post #5 doesn't look like ulva. More like hair algae. It looks very effective!

[FamilyTank]

I was also thinking on an overflow fed ATS. I've been working out the plumbing in my head.

[Scrubber_steve]

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

Twinfallz, your overflow-fed scrubber sounds very cool! Can you post a link to show how that setup works?

I agree, ulva is very productive. Plus it can be recycled as herbivore food. Your photo in post #5 doesn't look like ulva. More like hair algae. It looks very effective!

Its simply fed water from the tank overflow to the sump rather than its own dedicated pump.
Water from the overflow travels through the scrubber before going into the filter socks (if you use filtersocks that is)

Yes, the algae on my screen is ulva. There are many species of ulva & I cannot determin which species I've have or have had growing on it because its appearence will change slightly depending on conditions.
It is not lettuce ulva in any case, which is often the only ulva people know of.

Ulva also seems to be the algae that typically & naturally establishes itself on scrubber growth screens (unseeded) from the photos I see around the traps & in person.

Hair algae is finer. More like cotton thread. I have that growing in my freshwater pond. Thats not ulva

[Scrubber_steve]

Originally Posted by FamilyTank

I was also thinking on an overflow fed ATS. I've been working out the plumbing in my head.

How you plumb it all depends on (a) tank turn over rate (through the sump) compared to (b) the screen width of the scrubber & the recommended flow specified by that (around 20 to 35G/hour per inch of screen width).

If those two figures are pretty much the same its easy.
If (a) is much higher than (b) then you'll need to bleed off some of the flow.
If (a) is less than (b) you'll need to increase (a) or use a dedicated scrubber pump.

[Michael Hoaster]

Ah! Is it the ulva that grows in little tubes? I think Subsea has that. I've only heard of those two, but it makes sense there'd more. At the bottom of your pic, it looks hairy/fiber-y. Anyway, it looks to work well for you!

[Scrubber_steve]

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

Ah! Is it the ulva that grows in little tubes? I think Subsea has that. I've only heard of those two, but it makes sense there'd more. At the bottom of your pic, it looks hairy/fiber-y. Anyway, it looks to work well for you!

Yes it's fine, but not like hair algae.
I had the type that forms a small bubble/ tube near the end. Sometimes it's slightly wavey/ curly, a few mm wide. It changes. Not sure if its other types take over or mutations.

[Michael Hoaster]

Sounds like a very unique ulva! It makes sense that it would adapt its shape (phenotype?) to work well in a scrubber environment, adding to the difficulty in identifying it. I wonder if it would be pretty in a display like mine? Might be too invasive.

[Scrubber_steve]

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

Ah! Is it the ulva that grows in little tubes? I think Subsea has that. I've only heard of those two, but it makes sense there'd more. At the bottom of your pic, it looks hairy/fiber-y. Anyway, it looks to work well for you!

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

Sounds like a very unique ulva! It makes sense that it would adapt its shape (phenotype?) to work well in a scrubber environment, adding to the difficulty in identifying it. I wonder if it would be pretty in a display like mine? Might be too invasive.

If you had fish to eat it probably ok. If not,,, grows too fast.

[laverda]

In my opinion an ATS can out compete cheeto big time. It takes up less space and can be built for less than $30. And I don’t mean for a little 6” mesh one. Look for my DIY thread on how to build one shortly. I am creating the thread now. I just need to find my photos.

[Scrubber_steve]

Originally Posted by laverda

In my opinion an ATS can out compete cheeto big time. It takes up less space and can be built for less than $30. And I don’t mean for a little 6” mesh one. Look for my DIY thread on how to build one shortly. I am creating the thread now. I just need to find my photos.

That price cannot include lighting

[laverda]

Originally Posted by Twinfallz

That price cannot include lighting

Red and blue LEDs are available for $25 on Amazon. A quick search finds several different ones available for $24.99 -26.99 like this one. https://www.amazon.com/UNIFUN-Growin...+indoor+plants
The ones I use are similar but with out the up LEDs.

[Scrubber_steve]

Originally Posted by laverda

Red and blue LEDs are available for $25 on Amazon. A quick search finds several different ones available for $24.99 -26.99 like this one. https://www.amazon.com/UNIFUN-Growin...+indoor+plants
The ones I use are similar but with out the up LEDs.

Ok, but two lights are used for a typical downflow algae scrubber built these days. your method may be cheap but it won't be as effective as a properly designed & configured downflow.