Cleaner shrimps keep dying!

[kartrsu]

I'm new to the reef hobby. My tank has been cycled for about 9-10 weeks and is currently going through the diatom and cyano bloom phases. Here are current parameters and livestock.

Tank: Nuvo 20G
SG: 1.025
PH: 8.0-8.1
KH: 10
Temp: 78
Ammonia / Nitrite / Nitrate: 0/0/5
Livestock: 2 ocellaris, 1 firefish, 1 royal gramma, 4 Mexican red leg hermits, 3 astrea snails, and 1 nassarius snail
Salt mix: Reef Crystals

I've gone through 4 cleaner shrimps! It's been really sad. I always drip acclimate my shrimps for an hour or so. I also check the params between my tank and the LFS store, and I noticed my PH tends be lower for some reason, but nitrates are a lot better. Salinity between my DT and the LFS varies by .001 SG. I've noticed my last couple of shrimps, when added, tend to be clumsy, disoriented, stumbling across the tank. They also somewhat cringe and contort their legs. They tend to be motionless and seem to have a hard time holding onto the rocks. The last one I added was upside down for a period at the end of drip acclimation.

Some of the deaths have been my fault. I had to massively disturb the tank to get some fish out several times to treat for flukes, which kicked up a lot of dust and decaying organics. I also did several massive water changes to get my nitrates down.

I would really like to keep these guys, so I'm hoping I could troubleshoot with experienced reefers. Here are some questions I have.

1) Is it too early to add these guys? I do have an active cyano and diatom bloom and my shrimps tend to be coated by algae. Is cyano toxic to them? I know dinos are, but I checked my algae under a microscope and it doesn't seem like dinos.

2) Has anyone seen shrimp behavior such as scrunching up and picking at their mouths and swimmerets? Think like a spider dying and curling up. It feels like they are showing the water is toxic.

3) But if the water is toxic, how am I able to keep the hermits and the snails? If those guys are alive, does that mean copper shouldn't be an issue? I also haven't added any medication to the tank whatsoever.

Can I even keep these guys??? It's really sad and I feel so bad for putting them through this, but I just cannot find out why they are behaving this way. No bullying from the fishes either. Should have no major temp swings (indoor temp stays around 70). Salinity should not fluctuate at all since I'm using an ATO. I'm also running high amounts of activated carbon to remove and potential pollutants if they somehow got in. I am hesitant to do anymore massive water changes since I think it will just disrupt the whole algae cycle and worsen the outbreak. What do you guys recommend?

Sorry for the long post and thanks for the help!

[Auston]

How much cyanobacteria is in the tank and how much surface agitation do you have? Also how deep is your sand bed you are disturbing?.

[HumbleFish]

Check your pumps for rust. IME; crustaceans are more sensitive to metals in the water than other inverts/corals. I kept losing cleaner shrimp because of some rust on my mp10 shaft.

[ROB2005]

Are the shrimps lively at the LFS where you purchase them from? Just asking.

[mmmbacon]

20 gallons isn’t a big tank and can swing easily shrimp need stability, also you probably only want one or two tops . They will kill each other off usually


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[mmmbacon]

One more thing to add . Every time I lost a shrimp was do to large water changes


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[kartrsu]

Originally Posted by HumbleFish

Check your pumps for rust. IME; crustaceans are more sensitive to metals in the water than other inverts/corals. I kept losing cleaner shrimp because of some rust on my mp10 shaft.

Didn’t think about that. I hope the pumps are okay. They have been running for only 3 months and new equipment.

Originally Posted by Auston

How much cyanobacteria is in the tank and how much surface agitation do you have? Also how deep is your sand bed you are disturbing?.

Cyano isn’t outrageous. Just some strings spread out but not mats. Surface agitation should be good. I angle the return to have 1/2 inch ripples on the surface. Sand bed is not super deep. 1-2 inches.

Originally Posted by ROB2005

Are the shrimps lively at the LFS where you purchase them from? Just asking.

Shrimps generally are lively although last one I got from diff LFS was not. I checked their nitrates and it was 80+!! My other LFS runs a tighter ship with nitrates sub 40. What should I look for when buying?

Originally Posted by mmmbacon

20 gallons isn’t a big tank and can swing easily shrimp need stability, also you probably only want one or two tops . They will kill each other off usually


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Probably going to stick to one. What could swing in my setup? I have an ATO so salinity should be fine. My therm shows .5 degree swings at most. KH usually around 9-10

[Auston]

I'd test for copper to make sure and then try another source for livestock. Sounds like that store sucks.Edit* I see you have two stores. Maybe talk to the guys at the better store and ask them if you can pick up the shrimp before it comes out of the bag and goes into the tanks. I believe there is a post called "death in bags" or something like that that you should read first before doing that. If you decide to try that

[mmmbacon]

Originally Posted by kartrsu

Didn’t think about that. I hope the pumps are okay. They have been running for only 3 months and new equipment.







Cyano isn’t outrageous. Just some strings spread out but not mats. Surface agitation should be good. I angle the return to have 1/2 inch ripples on the surface. Sand bed is not super deep. 1-2 inches.







Shrimps generally are lively although last one I got from diff LFS was not. I checked their nitrates and it was 80+!! My other LFS runs a tighter ship with nitrates sub 40. What should I look for when buying?







Probably going to stick to one. What could swing in my setup? I have an ATO so salinity should be fine. My therm shows .5 degree swings at most. KH usually around 9-10

With a 20 gallon tank I would only do weekly 10% water changes or two 10% water changes a week if you are trying to dilute more . Shrimp are sensitive to many different swings salinity ,alk , temperature . Just my experience when i needed to do large water changes everything did fine except Shrimp , crabs ect . And they usually bond with one and kill off the rest . weaker ones . I believe for food purposes. I had 3 for awhile that I thought was good , but once the alpha one got older he killed the rest .


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[kartrsu]

Originally Posted by Auston

I'd test for copper to make sure and then try another source for livestock. Sounds like that store sucks.Edit* I see you have two stores. Maybe talk to the guys at the better store and ask them if you can pick up the shrimp before it comes out of the bag and goes into the tanks. I believe there is a post called "death in bags" or something like that that you should read first before doing that. If you decide to try that

Sounds good. What’s a good copper test kit? I don’t really trust the API brand as much. My good LFS probably gets shrimps in bulk in the same bag. Not sure, but I like the idea to keep them in the bag so less system shock overall.

Originally Posted by mmmbacon

With a 20 gallon tank I would only do weekly 10% water changes or two 10% water changes a week if you are trying to dilute more . Shrimp are sensitive to many different swings salinity ,alk , temperature . Just my experience when i needed to do large water changes everything did fine except Shrimp , crabs ect . And they usually bond with one and kill off the rest . weaker ones . I believe for food purposes. I had 3 for awhile that I thought was good , but once the alpha one got older he killed the rest .


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Agreed. I only did the massive water changes to lower nitrates quickly, but I should have just taken it slow and brought it down over time. I noticed when I drip acclimate, the container I keep the shrimps in cools down by 5 degrees or so. When I add them back should I float them again? Also, does PH at 8 affect their health?

[Auston]

You don't need to drip for an hour, that over kill in my opinion. I have a invert dominant tank I have shrimp, crabs, snails, worms ect... Never drip for more then 20 min

[Auston]

Haven't lost a thing. Last night I did 2 porsilin crabs. LFS had salinity at 1.020 brought it up to 1.026 in less then 20 min

[kartrsu]

I was told that salinity acclimation and temp are the main variables to get right with invertebrates. Is that right?

[Auston]

Ya for sure.

[scattered]

Originally Posted by Auston

You don't need to drip for an hour, that over kill in my opinion. I have a invert dominant tank I have shrimp, crabs, snails, worms ect... Never drip for more then 20 min

You are probably right and I still drip for 3x water volume. That usually takes an hour for a little (snails) container. It is easy and cannot hurt


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[scattered]

You might set up super cheap ‘quarantine’ tank for a few days before introducing to DT. Obviously not a copper treated QT, but something cycled with your tank water (just use WC water), a heater and water flow. See if you can get 3-5 days (don’t forget top off daily if not automatically).


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[scattered]

Isolate changes. Introduce a single new variable at a time


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[Auston]

Originally Posted by scattered

Isolate changes. Introduce a single new variable at a time


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Very good advice for reefing and troubleshooting in general 😀

[Orsamax]

Are you allowing your water to fully mix before you do the water changes? If you have done large water changes, its possible that you rushed the mixing time of the water OR that you didn't have enough oxygen dissolved in the water that you quickly added. If you don't have a means of getting good oxygenation into your mixed water it will have a lower ph and also it will possibly be so deprived of oxygen that the shrimp don't get enough to live until the surface agitation in your tank has enough time to dissolve enough oxygen. I don't know how long that could/would be, but I'd see about ensuring you let the salt mix properly (salt particles not fully dissolved is bad) but I'd also use a cup or pitcher to agitate the water for a few minutes to ensure that oxygen gets dissolved if you are going to continue to do large water changes.

[kartrsu]

Thanks for all the help guys and sorry for ghosting for a little bit. I’m happy to share that my 5th cleaner shrimp has made it through after his addition a couple weeks ago. I thought I’d share some notes from my successes for others to consider if they are having similar issues.

Acclimation process involves floating the bag for 15 mins followed by a 30 min drip into a container (Tupperware). I used the same digital thermometer to measure my DT temp to measure the water in the container during the drip. If the temp dropped too much, I floated the container in a bucket of water that was slightly hotter than my DT to bring the temp back in range. Important to check container is truly clean. I suggest a wipe with RODI water to remove any potential residue. After the drip, I netted the shrimp and placed him into the tank and promptly turned off the lights to let him adjust peacefully.

I have a royal gramma and my tank is only 20 gallons. Dropped in an algae wafer to feed my shrimp the next day, and the feeding frenzy resulted in him losing 2 limbs on one side. Incredibly terrible for balance and he mostly stayed in his corner, but the good signs were that he was not stunned or motionless, but was swaying his antennas around and (my favorite) doing the swaying thing with his front pairs of legs to indicate he is ready for cleaning.

To get him to heal and fight through, I target feeding him brine shrimp every day to make sure he had nutrition. His limbs started to show signs of growing back (growing through open sites where his leg ripped off). Then I knew he was fine.

I got concerned later that he might be ill for some reason, for he had stopped eating and was doing a lot of scratching, feeling, and cleaning around his body. He had black spots on his exoskeleton (perhaps a sign of bacterial infection) and I thought he was gonna be a goner. After researching, seems those behaviors might indicate an impending molt. After a water change, two days later he looted and his missing limbs are back to 70% of full length.

No he’s a real champ, venturing around and accepting my target feedings and all. I took the advice to mix my saltwater the night before to insure full dissolution and I aerate the water to gas out any carbon dioxide. I always temp watch and scrutinize salinity with a digital refractomer.

Sorry for the long post, but those was my process to maximize success. I would go out on a limb to say if you’ve tried above, and the shrimp died, probably might have been the shrimp. Either way, hope someone who is going through the same issue can benefit for this!

Thanks again for the strong community help!


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[kartrsu]

My god, apologies for the typos. Forgot to spell check the stupid autocorrect.


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