Nitrate Control

Icewing726 · 03/26/2019, 11:50 AM

So my tanks a year old and still doesn't handle its own nitrates (refugium set up).

I've tried vinegar dosing and it held steady at 40ppm, but it was taking a lot of vinegar and I'm looking for alternatives.

I stumbled across the nitrate removal pads by deep blue and was wondering anyone had any experience with those?

I'm also open to any other suggestions that have worked for others. (Water changes aren't extremely viable as 10% weekly changes requires 16 gallons)

mcgyvr · 03/26/2019, 12:22 PM

How much vinegar?
System gallons?
Amount of live rock?
Bare bottom or sand?
Whats in the tank?
Using any phosphate binders?

1 year is still easily where a tank may not be mature enough to handle its own..
Even more so depending on bioload..

Very little if anything will work better/faster than carbon dosing..
Have you checked your phosphate level too? You could be phosphate limited hence the carbon dosing isn't working as well as it could..

Refugiums IMO are often not the "magic trick" they are made out to be..
Unless you are harvesting a bunch and often they really aren't doing much..

Icewing726 · 03/26/2019, 12:32 PM

@mcgyvr Hello again, I followed a regimen and got up to around 100 ml a day, but it had some negative effects too. Every other day I was seeing the red cyano bloom on the bottom then disappear which was unsightly.

System gallons: 160ish total water
Amount of live rock: Think around 100 or 150 lbs
Bare bottom or sand: Sand 150 lbs
Whats in the tank: Right now 2 wrasses (blue head, and sunset), a large volitan lion, a fox face, and a purple Tang.
Using any phosphate binders: On and off, phosphates are pretty low in this tank.

Even with daily dosing I never dropped below 40 ppm which is why I slowed down and the nitrates are on the rise again.

My sump drops into foam padding to catch debris, goes through 2 quarts of ceramic bio balls, hits a compartment with a SCA skimmer sized for the tank and a UV filter, the next compartment is the refugium with a ceramic brick, chaeto, and a colony of shrimp that I have no idea where they came from, and then finally into the return sump section. Each section is blocked by foam padding for debris.

Feeding consists of 2 krill cubes a day, and some silver sides every other day or every 3rd day depending on how much the lionfish stares at me. I'm thinking of adding in an eel or some other fish but I haven't beaten these nitrates yet.

Hope that info helps.

mcgyvr · 03/26/2019, 02:26 PM

Well....personally... I'd start by ripping out all of the foam from the sump, cutting feeding in half and get back to carbon dosing.

OldReefGuy · 03/30/2019, 09:42 AM

If this is a FOWLR, 40ppm isnt really that much of a concern.
Get rid of the foam,as suggested (or increase cleaning schedule on the foam AND your bio-balls) and increase water change schedule or amounts...the foam and bio-balls are doing what they are designed to do, convert all the junk they catch into Nitrates. You can try all the nitrate removal product you want, but keeping your system as you have it, you will end up with 40ppm again in a month.

billdogg · 03/30/2019, 04:42 PM

I had Nitrate issues when my 4' Undulated Moray was still with me. He was in a 150g tank with a 50g sump. Total volume probably about 175g. He ate 3 or 4 hand sized filets of whatever the seafood counter had weekly. Nitrates were essentially untestable. Even if I did a 100g water change, I couldn't keep them below 100ppm for more than a day or two. Cyanobacteria? HaHa You haven't seen a cyano problem. GHA? If I coulda sold it by the pound I'd be long since retired.

Then I did some reading both on here and on www.wetwebmedia.com and found a possible solution. A refugium. Not one of the usual 1/4 of my too small sump refugiums. Not a algae farm in an effort to use it up. Nope. What worked for me was a LARGE refugium (120g) with a 8"+ DSB of very fine sand. I transferred some kenya tree "frags" and some paly overgrowth into the refugium as well where they flourished. Within about 6 weeks the nitrates dropped and the cyano/GHA farm started dying off. Within 3 months, the Nitrates were barely detectable even going as long as 6 weeks between water changes. They stayed that way even with his large appetite until the day he died.

I get it that something like that isn't very practical for many, but it can work very well

Uncle99 · 03/30/2019, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icewing726

@mcgyvr Hello again, I followed a regimen and got up to around 100 ml a day, but it had some negative effects too. Every other day I was seeing the red cyano bloom on the bottom then disappear which was unsightly.

System gallons: 160ish total water
Amount of live rock: Think around 100 or 150 lbs
Bare bottom or sand: Sand 150 lbs
Whats in the tank: Right now 2 wrasses (blue head, and sunset), a large volitan lion, a fox face, and a purple Tang.
Using any phosphate binders: On and off, phosphates are pretty low in this tank.

Even with daily dosing I never dropped below 40 ppm which is why I slowed down and the nitrates are on the rise again.

My sump drops into foam padding to catch debris, goes through 2 quarts of ceramic bio balls, hits a compartment with a SCA skimmer sized for the tank and a UV filter, the next compartment is the refugium with a ceramic brick, chaeto, and a colony of shrimp that I have no idea where they came from, and then finally into the return sump section. Each section is blocked by foam padding for debris.

Feeding consists of 2 krill cubes a day, and some silver sides every other day or every 3rd day depending on how much the lionfish stares at me. I'm thinking of adding in an eel or some other fish but I haven't beaten these nitrates yet.

Hope that info helps.

You got some big consumers of food and exports of poop in that tank.
Certainly going to have an impact on your nitrate levels.

Feed less and carbon dose.
Maybe consider NoPox, I brought 50ppm to 5ppm in about 3 months with a daily dose of 10mls in a 70g....been that way for years now....and I have no sump.

Icewing726 · 04/02/2019, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldReefGuy

If this is a FOWLR, 40ppm isnt really that much of a concern.
Get rid of the foam,as suggested (or increase cleaning schedule on the foam AND your bio-balls) and increase water change schedule or amounts...the foam and bio-balls are doing what they are designed to do, convert all the junk they catch into Nitrates. You can try all the nitrate removal product you want, but keeping your system as you have it, you will end up with 40ppm again in a month.

I may have just had an light bulb moment. My tank overflows right into foam strainers that feed into bio balls and then into the skimmer compartment... Should I move the bio balls into the refugium area and let the protein skimmer be the first at bat with water from the tank?

mcgyvr · 04/02/2019, 12:08 PM

IMO moving stuff around will have little to no impact. (unless you are moving them to the trash can

)
I haven't seen any proof that order of anything matters.. Flow rates are typically way higher than actual processing rates so a vast majority of the water passes right by unfiltered..

03/26/2019, 11:50 AM	#1
Icewing726 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Posts: 248	Nitrate Control So my tanks a year old and still doesn't handle its own nitrates (refugium set up). I've tried vinegar dosing and it held steady at 40ppm, but it was taking a lot of vinegar and I'm looking for alternatives. I stumbled across the nitrate removal pads by deep blue and was wondering anyone had any experience with those? I'm also open to any other suggestions that have worked for others. (Water changes aren't extremely viable as 10% weekly changes requires 16 gallons)

03/26/2019, 12:22 PM	#2
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	How much vinegar? System gallons? Amount of live rock? Bare bottom or sand? Whats in the tank? Using any phosphate binders? 1 year is still easily where a tank may not be mature enough to handle its own.. Even more so depending on bioload.. Very little if anything will work better/faster than carbon dosing.. Have you checked your phosphate level too? You could be phosphate limited hence the carbon dosing isn't working as well as it could.. Refugiums IMO are often not the "magic trick" they are made out to be.. Unless you are harvesting a bunch and often they really aren't doing much.. __________________ Who me?

03/26/2019, 02:26 PM	#4
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	Well....personally... I'd start by ripping out all of the foam from the sump, cutting feeding in half and get back to carbon dosing. __________________ Who me?

03/30/2019, 04:42 PM	#6
billdogg Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Grove City, Ohio Posts: 10,806	I had Nitrate issues when my 4' Undulated Moray was still with me. He was in a 150g tank with a 50g sump. Total volume probably about 175g. He ate 3 or 4 hand sized filets of whatever the seafood counter had weekly. Nitrates were essentially untestable. Even if I did a 100g water change, I couldn't keep them below 100ppm for more than a day or two. Cyanobacteria? HaHa You haven't seen a cyano problem. GHA? If I coulda sold it by the pound I'd be long since retired. Then I did some reading both on here and on www.wetwebmedia.com and found a possible solution. A refugium. Not one of the usual 1/4 of my too small sump refugiums. Not a algae farm in an effort to use it up. Nope. What worked for me was a LARGE refugium (120g) with a 8"+ DSB of very fine sand. I transferred some kenya tree "frags" and some paly overgrowth into the refugium as well where they flourished. Within about 6 weeks the nitrates dropped and the cyano/GHA farm started dying off. Within 3 months, the Nitrates were barely detectable even going as long as 6 weeks between water changes. They stayed that way even with his large appetite until the day he died. I get it that something like that isn't very practical for many, but it can work very well __________________ I'll try to be nice if you try to be smarter! I can't help that I grow older, but you can't make me grow up! Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef with 40b sump, RO 150 skimmer, AI Sol Blue x 2, and a 60g Frag Tank with 100g rubbermaid sump. 2 x Kessil A360w lights, BM curve 5 skimmer

04/02/2019, 12:08 PM	#9
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	IMO moving stuff around will have little to no impact. (unless you are moving them to the trash can ) I haven't seen any proof that order of anything matters.. Flow rates are typically way higher than actual processing rates so a vast majority of the water passes right by unfiltered.. __________________ Who me?

03/26/2019, 12:32 PM	#3
Icewing726 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Posts: 248	@mcgyvr Hello again, I followed a regimen and got up to around 100 ml a day, but it had some negative effects too. Every other day I was seeing the red cyano bloom on the bottom then disappear which was unsightly. System gallons: 160ish total water Amount of live rock: Think around 100 or 150 lbs Bare bottom or sand: Sand 150 lbs Whats in the tank: Right now 2 wrasses (blue head, and sunset), a large volitan lion, a fox face, and a purple Tang. Using any phosphate binders: On and off, phosphates are pretty low in this tank. Even with daily dosing I never dropped below 40 ppm which is why I slowed down and the nitrates are on the rise again. My sump drops into foam padding to catch debris, goes through 2 quarts of ceramic bio balls, hits a compartment with a SCA skimmer sized for the tank and a UV filter, the next compartment is the refugium with a ceramic brick, chaeto, and a colony of shrimp that I have no idea where they came from, and then finally into the return sump section. Each section is blocked by foam padding for debris. Feeding consists of 2 krill cubes a day, and some silver sides every other day or every 3rd day depending on how much the lionfish stares at me. I'm thinking of adding in an eel or some other fish but I haven't beaten these nitrates yet. Hope that info helps.

03/30/2019, 09:42 AM	#5
OldReefGuy Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Granada Hills Posts: 542	If this is a FOWLR, 40ppm isnt really that much of a concern. Get rid of the foam,as suggested (or increase cleaning schedule on the foam AND your bio-balls) and increase water change schedule or amounts...the foam and bio-balls are doing what they are designed to do, convert all the junk they catch into Nitrates. You can try all the nitrate removal product you want, but keeping your system as you have it, you will end up with 40ppm again in a month.