Is my Red Sea XL 425 safe to fill? Corners not touching.

mike.p · 04/01/2019, 04:34 PM

Hello all,

I'm not exactly new, but I've been away for three years... The reason for that was that a new 150g tank I just set up cracked three days after filling, and destroyed my freshly remodeled basement, and new hardwood floor. After that, I just couldn't bring myself to start over.

Now I'm back, but I'm sensing a potential nightmare again. I have a brand new Red Sea Reefer 425 XL. The stand is completely level, checked it in every spot. But when the tank is on it, two opposite corners of the tank (rear left, front right) are significantly off the pad. I'll attach photos. I emailed Red Sea, and they replied that it should be fine, the water weight will level it out.

But I'm terrified to proceed... I've heard others say that even if one can slip a few pieces of paper under a tank, that's too much. In my case, it's more than that. Please take a look at the pictures, and let me know your thoughts. I would greatly appreciate it.

Here are the pictures:

https://drive.google.com/folderview?...-78Vb2tBgbaZIO

lolgranny · 04/01/2019, 05:11 PM

1 off I’m sorry about your break. I hope you got ahold of your insurance company as most cover that. I know I double checked when I put in my 400g and State Farm does.

I wouldn’t be ok with that tank, I’m sure others will agree. Glass should be “ok” with flexing like that and having a big bow to it. I’d ask for a replacement.

More and more I read about things like this. Hope you get it corrected. Their “it should be fine” shouldn’t be accepted. Are they going to fix the damage and the pain you have to deal with if it isn’t fine and breaks?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

dkeller_nc · 04/01/2019, 05:54 PM

It isn't clear from your pictures whether the tank is bowed, the stand is bowed, or the foam under the tank is not the same thickness.

If the tank is bowed, do not fill it. Call up the retailer that you bought it from and arrange a return/replacement. Under such a situation, the bowed glass is probably already putting a good deal of strain on the seams. Filling it with water may be enough to pop them.

If the tank is straight, and the stand is bowed, then you may be able to get just a replacement stand. But again, don't fill it. Regardless of the foam leveling out when the weight of a tankful of water is placed on it, the compressed foam will still be putting more pressure on the tank in the center than the edges, and that's a no-no for the same reason as noted above.

If the foam itself isn't the same uniform thickness across the stand, then I'd replace the foam. A pain to be sure, and will cost you a small amount of $$, but probably worth accepting to avoid the PITA of shipping the whole tank back.

P.S. - If you bought this through Bulk Reef Supply, call them. I've a strong feeling they will make Red Sea "see the light".

speedo2wet · 04/01/2019, 07:48 PM

I agree to check the tank itself for being level but I will say I’ve been in a place where I worried to much about leveling the stand itself and offsetting it. Then the tank seemed to be warped resulting in popped seams. I would place the tank on the stand and make sure it’s flat - all corners touching and even on foam if needed, then level the legs of the stand according to the tank itself with a level. I would have saved a few tanks if I known that earlier.

Hope it helps.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

mike.p · 04/01/2019, 07:58 PM

Thank you for the replies, everyone. Initially, I did the adjustments to stand with the tank on it. I didn't do so again after I took it off to check the stand by itself. I could check that again.

The foam appears to be uniform everywhere, and it came with the setup from Red Sea. I'm almost positive it's the tank. If you look at the pictures off of the stand, you can see the corners lifting up from the floor, and the picture where I can stick my index finger under it.

I didn't buy it from BRS, no... A new LFS opened up down the road from me, and I got it from them about a week after they did; figured I'd help a local shop kick off. But the downside is that they're not an 800 lb gorilla like some other places. lol. I don't know what kind of pull he has with Red Sea, but think I'm going to go talk to him.

What worries me most, is that it's opposite corners... It's the worst possible trajectory for stress, once weight begins to be placed on it. Basically trying to push something not meant to flex, all the way diagonally across the bottom.

Mark · 04/02/2019, 06:45 AM

I had same thing with my red sea reefer 625xxl, and it did level out with weight. I filled the tank 25% with tapwater to add more weight and let it sit a few days, and it compressed and was flush. There are some threads on clay-boa with similar questions.

Mark · 04/02/2019, 06:47 AM

To add to my reply, I meant the gap between foam on stand and tank. Seems yours has a gap even on a level ground. I never tested that on my tank.

907 · 04/02/2019, 07:30 AM

May I suggest that if you are going to fill that tank that you move it outside or to a location that will not cause damage if it breaks when you fill it.

As you know that gap is not normal and something is off. I just finished putting together my 425xl and there are no such gaps. It also hasn't been filled with water yet but I'm waiting for an extra pump to arrive so if mine leaks I can empty it quick.

A note on the cabinet: the holes that you put the cam locks in on mine were not completely "clean", meaning there were slivers of wood and I had to pick some of them clean also, on half of them I had to back out and reseat the cam a few times before I felt comfortable that there was a tight fit. (As a woodworker I was dismayed when I saw the cam locks and plastic dowels)
Sorry this happened to you and good luck.

dkeller_nc · 04/02/2019, 07:53 AM

So the first thing to do is to go to the local home store and buy a proper straightedge. A 4 foot aluminum construction ruler will cost you about $10. Then flip the tank so that the bottom is facing up. Lay the construction ruler between opposite corners of the tank (and then the "other" opposite corners). If there is any bowing that is obvious, do not fill the tank - to do so will not only potentially risk your warranty, you may also be taking a trip to the hospital, since a tank under that much stress could easily explode.

mike.p · 04/02/2019, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkeller_nc

So the first thing to do is to go to the local home store and buy a proper straightedge. A 4 foot aluminum construction ruler will cost you about $10. Then flip the tank so that the bottom is facing up. Lay the construction ruler between opposite corners of the tank (and then the "other" opposite corners). If there is any bowing that is obvious, do not fill the tank - to do so will not only potentially risk your warranty, you may also be taking a trip to the hospital, since a tank under that much stress could easily explode.

I actually did something similar last night... I'll go out and buy an aluminum one like you mentioned, and check again today, but I had one of their yardsticks on hand, which I taped completely level with the edge of the stand. On the left, it was completely level, and no gap between the straightedge and glass. On the right, a different matter entirely. Here are the pictures:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1--...Z_p895e8OEmRkl

dkeller_nc · 04/02/2019, 02:11 PM

If I'm interpreting the pictures and your description correctly, the bottom of the tank is bowed. That's not OK, even by a little.

mike.p · 04/02/2019, 02:27 PM

I think you are, because that's the conclusion I'm coming to as well. I'll try to word it a little better, sorry... The straightedge is taped along the line of the top edge of the stand. The left two thirds of it are in contact with the bottom of the tank. The right third, while still lined with the edge of the stand, makes no contact with the tank; the gap between the straight edge and tank gets progressively bigger, as you move right toward the corner.

dkeller_nc · 04/03/2019, 08:09 PM

Take the tank off of the stand, flip it upside down on the floor so that the bottom's facing up. Stand the aluminum straightedge on its edge across the tank, and then along the tank's long dimension. Seeing a little bit of light between the straightedge and the tank bottom would be OK, but a measurable gap is not.

If the bottom is not flat, return the tank. Period.

Mickey13 · 04/04/2019, 03:04 PM

I'd call the manufacturer again. Speak to a supervisor, record the phone call if the law in your state allows it. At the least get their name, get the fax number. After the conversation, fax them a letter recanting the conversation of your concerns and their explanation.

After that, take that tank outside or the garage, somewhere it will not damage your property. Pull out your video recorder and film the whole thing. Make sure you wear safety goggles, long pants and shirt, stand a safe distance. You will have a popular YouTube channel if the tank explodes and one hell of a claim against the manufacturer. They might even pay you to remove the video if what they represent turns out to be wrong.

04/01/2019, 04:34 PM	#1
mike.p Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 34	Is my Red Sea XL 425 safe to fill? Corners not touching. Hello all, I'm not exactly new, but I've been away for three years... The reason for that was that a new 150g tank I just set up cracked three days after filling, and destroyed my freshly remodeled basement, and new hardwood floor. After that, I just couldn't bring myself to start over. Now I'm back, but I'm sensing a potential nightmare again. I have a brand new Red Sea Reefer 425 XL. The stand is completely level, checked it in every spot. But when the tank is on it, two opposite corners of the tank (rear left, front right) are significantly off the pad. I'll attach photos. I emailed Red Sea, and they replied that it should be fine, the water weight will level it out. But I'm terrified to proceed... I've heard others say that even if one can slip a few pieces of paper under a tank, that's too much. In my case, it's more than that. Please take a look at the pictures, and let me know your thoughts. I would greatly appreciate it. Here are the pictures: https://drive.google.com/folderview?...-78Vb2tBgbaZIO

04/01/2019, 05:11 PM	#2
lolgranny The DQ King Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Chicago (McHenry) Posts: 2,414	Is my Red Sea XL 425 safe to fill? Corners not touching. 1 off I’m sorry about your break. I hope you got ahold of your insurance company as most cover that. I know I double checked when I put in my 400g and State Farm does. I wouldn’t be ok with that tank, I’m sure others will agree. Glass should be “ok” with flexing like that and having a big bow to it. I’d ask for a replacement. More and more I read about things like this. Hope you get it corrected. Their “it should be fine” shouldn’t be accepted. Are they going to fix the damage and the pain you have to deal with if it isn’t fine and breaks? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ -Dave Current Tank Info: 40g RIP. 300g system, 180g display.

04/02/2019, 06:45 AM	#6
Mark Premium Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Atlanta, GA, USA Posts: 4,542	I had same thing with my red sea reefer 625xxl, and it did level out with weight. I filled the tank 25% with tapwater to add more weight and let it sit a few days, and it compressed and was flush. There are some threads on clay-boa with similar questions. __________________ -Mark TOTM March 2001 Current Tank Info: 225g stony reef, 38g softie

04/02/2019, 06:47 AM	#7
Mark Premium Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Atlanta, GA, USA Posts: 4,542	To add to my reply, I meant the gap between foam on stand and tank. Seems yours has a gap even on a level ground. I never tested that on my tank. __________________ -Mark TOTM March 2001 Current Tank Info: 225g stony reef, 38g softie

04/01/2019, 05:54 PM	#3
dkeller_nc Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Central NC Posts: 5,062	It isn't clear from your pictures whether the tank is bowed, the stand is bowed, or the foam under the tank is not the same thickness. If the tank is bowed, do not fill it. Call up the retailer that you bought it from and arrange a return/replacement. Under such a situation, the bowed glass is probably already putting a good deal of strain on the seams. Filling it with water may be enough to pop them. If the tank is straight, and the stand is bowed, then you may be able to get just a replacement stand. But again, don't fill it. Regardless of the foam leveling out when the weight of a tankful of water is placed on it, the compressed foam will still be putting more pressure on the tank in the center than the edges, and that's a no-no for the same reason as noted above. If the foam itself isn't the same uniform thickness across the stand, then I'd replace the foam. A pain to be sure, and will cost you a small amount of $$, but probably worth accepting to avoid the PITA of shipping the whole tank back. P.S. - If you bought this through Bulk Reef Supply, call them. I've a strong feeling they will make Red Sea "see the light".

04/01/2019, 07:48 PM	#4
speedo2wet Sharks!!!! Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Apopka, Florida Posts: 478	I agree to check the tank itself for being level but I will say I’ve been in a place where I worried to much about leveling the stand itself and offsetting it. Then the tank seemed to be warped resulting in popped seams. I would place the tank on the stand and make sure it’s flat - all corners touching and even on foam if needed, then level the legs of the stand according to the tank itself with a level. I would have saved a few tanks if I known that earlier. Hope it helps. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

04/01/2019, 07:58 PM	#5
mike.p Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 34	Thank you for the replies, everyone. Initially, I did the adjustments to stand with the tank on it. I didn't do so again after I took it off to check the stand by itself. I could check that again. The foam appears to be uniform everywhere, and it came with the setup from Red Sea. I'm almost positive it's the tank. If you look at the pictures off of the stand, you can see the corners lifting up from the floor, and the picture where I can stick my index finger under it. I didn't buy it from BRS, no... A new LFS opened up down the road from me, and I got it from them about a week after they did; figured I'd help a local shop kick off. But the downside is that they're not an 800 lb gorilla like some other places. lol. I don't know what kind of pull he has with Red Sea, but think I'm going to go talk to him. What worries me most, is that it's opposite corners... It's the worst possible trajectory for stress, once weight begins to be placed on it. Basically trying to push something not meant to flex, all the way diagonally across the bottom.

04/02/2019, 07:30 AM	#8
907 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 11	May I suggest that if you are going to fill that tank that you move it outside or to a location that will not cause damage if it breaks when you fill it. As you know that gap is not normal and something is off. I just finished putting together my 425xl and there are no such gaps. It also hasn't been filled with water yet but I'm waiting for an extra pump to arrive so if mine leaks I can empty it quick. A note on the cabinet: the holes that you put the cam locks in on mine were not completely "clean", meaning there were slivers of wood and I had to pick some of them clean also, on half of them I had to back out and reseat the cam a few times before I felt comfortable that there was a tight fit. (As a woodworker I was dismayed when I saw the cam locks and plastic dowels) Sorry this happened to you and good luck.

04/02/2019, 07:53 AM	#9
dkeller_nc Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Central NC Posts: 5,062	So the first thing to do is to go to the local home store and buy a proper straightedge. A 4 foot aluminum construction ruler will cost you about $10. Then flip the tank so that the bottom is facing up. Lay the construction ruler between opposite corners of the tank (and then the "other" opposite corners). If there is any bowing that is obvious, do not fill the tank - to do so will not only potentially risk your warranty, you may also be taking a trip to the hospital, since a tank under that much stress could easily explode.

04/02/2019, 02:11 PM	#11
dkeller_nc Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Central NC Posts: 5,062	If I'm interpreting the pictures and your description correctly, the bottom of the tank is bowed. That's not OK, even by a little.

04/02/2019, 02:27 PM	#12
mike.p Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 34	I think you are, because that's the conclusion I'm coming to as well. I'll try to word it a little better, sorry... The straightedge is taped along the line of the top edge of the stand. The left two thirds of it are in contact with the bottom of the tank. The right third, while still lined with the edge of the stand, makes no contact with the tank; the gap between the straight edge and tank gets progressively bigger, as you move right toward the corner.

04/03/2019, 08:09 PM	#13
dkeller_nc Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Central NC Posts: 5,062	Take the tank off of the stand, flip it upside down on the floor so that the bottom's facing up. Stand the aluminum straightedge on its edge across the tank, and then along the tank's long dimension. Seeing a little bit of light between the straightedge and the tank bottom would be OK, but a measurable gap is not. If the bottom is not flat, return the tank. Period.

04/04/2019, 03:04 PM	#14
Mickey13 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: Sunrise Beach, NJ Posts: 84	I'd call the manufacturer again. Speak to a supervisor, record the phone call if the law in your state allows it. At the least get their name, get the fax number. After the conversation, fax them a letter recanting the conversation of your concerns and their explanation. After that, take that tank outside or the garage, somewhere it will not damage your property. Pull out your video recorder and film the whole thing. Make sure you wear safety goggles, long pants and shirt, stand a safe distance. You will have a popular YouTube channel if the tank explodes and one hell of a claim against the manufacturer. They might even pay you to remove the video if what they represent turns out to be wrong.