Heater questions: 1 or 2, tank only, tank and sump, or sump only?

SeeCrabRun · 01/30/2015, 08:14 PM

I need to buy new heaters and I would love some input.

I have a 20H and standard 29g. I have 3 50w heaters, 1 in the 20H and 2 in the 29g.

I'm building a sump for the 29g and planned on putting at least 1 heater in it. Then I was thinking both, but then I wondered if either?

Firstly, what is your opinion on 2 lower watt heaters vs 1 or 2 higher watt heaters?

The theory behind this is if 1 fails then you still have the other:
-it fails because it shorts and dies. Then you still have the other to keep the tank from dropping temp really fast.
-it fails and stays on at all times, it'll be lower heat than a higher watt and not as likely to cook the tank.

It makes sense to me, but I'm no expert.

Secondly, what wattage do I need for a 20H and 29g-with 10g sump?

Lastly, would you put all heaters(if multiples) in the main tank, split them between tank and sump, or only in the sump?

My plan was to get a 75w for the 20H, and 2 50w for the 29g and put them both in the sump. Opinions?

ca1ore · 01/30/2015, 09:00 PM

Ideally you want two heaters of modest rating such that one getting stuck cannot cook the tank and one completely failing will not allow the temperature to drop precipitously. I see no particular benefit to putting a heater in the tank; frankly its an eyesore best banished to the sump. If you have a main pump failure, you can always temporarily relocate them to the display. System of 40 gallons probably calls for two 75-100 watt heaters (assuming typical ambient room temp).

lllesley · 01/30/2015, 11:48 PM

I run 2 heaters. One is plugged into controller box that is set to. 26 with a. 1 degree variance the other is plugged into a separate power board set to 25. If contrôller box fails for any reason the other one will kick In once at. 25.

A sea K · 01/31/2015, 03:45 AM

I run two 75 watt heaters for my system; 30gal DT with a 20Lsump and a standard 10gal for a refugium. Both are hooked to a Ranco dual stage temp controller. Both heaters are in the sump.

gone fishin · 01/31/2015, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ca1ore

Ideally you want two heaters of modest rating such that one getting stuck cannot cook the tank and one completely failing will not allow the temperature to drop precipitously. I see no particular benefit to putting a heater in the tank; frankly its an eyesore best banished to the sump. If you have a main pump failure, you can always temporarily relocate them to the display. System of 40 gallons probably calls for two 75-100 watt heaters (assuming typical ambient room temp).

This is what I do. Right after New year I had a heater fail on. When I got home from work I noticed the temp was a little higher than usual. I replaced the heater the next day and the tank never missed a beat. Good luck

dkeller_nc · 01/31/2015, 08:43 AM

Yes, 2 heaters of lower wattage are safer than one heater of a higher wattage. But a couple of pieces of advice: buy high-quality heaters. The one with the best reputation is the Eheim Jaeger, and Cobalt Aquatics Accu-therm and Neo-therm heaters have decent track records. Off-brands tend to fail, and sometimes fail spectacularly.

To give you a reference point, I run a 150w Eheim Jaeger in my 20g high nano that has a 10 gallon sump. That's sufficient for maintaining a tank temp of 78 deg during the winter in my house, which stays about 65 deg F. Keep in mind that my nano's sump is in a mostly-enclosed cabinet, and the tank has a hood. If your tank is open-topped, I'd go with 2 100w heaters.

SeeCrabRun · 01/31/2015, 09:09 AM

OK good, so 2 is indeed the way to go.

I'm going to be getting the eheim heaters. I have viaaqua and they have performed very well, but the coil in all 3 are rusted now, so obviously not long term quality.

My 20H does not have a sump and it has an open top, but is directly under the vent and that area stays pretty warm.

The 29g will have a 10g sump in the cabinet and is in a different room. For the most part my house stays at about 70. I don't live in a cold climate area, so I'm more concerned about the summer.

I don't have a controller and won't be getting one for a while. So can anyone recommend a good thermometer to monitor the temp? Right now I just have stick on strips and test the water with my hand to make sure nothing seems off.

Frozenguy · 01/31/2015, 09:33 AM

I also run two smaller return pumps so if one pump fails, the other pump will still circulate water (and run full system through sump heaters).

dkeller_nc · 01/31/2015, 09:39 AM

Given your climate and your house temperature, I'd suggest a 100w Eheim for your 20g H, and two 75w Eheims for your tank with the sump. I suggest the single heater for your 20g H because it doesn't have a sump, and locating two heaters in the tank will be more of an eyesore.

For temperature monitoring, I'll suggest two different routes.

The first one involves two temperature measurement devices - a glass, lab-grade thermometer and the coralife $6 digital thermometers. The coralife devices are cheaply made and aren't all that accurate. But their readings are stable, so you can measure the true temperature with a lab-grade glass thermometer and figure out the off-set of the coralife unit, and use it on your tank. A lab-grade glass thermometer will cost you about $10 on amazon.

The second option is a high-grade, accurate thermometer made for aquarium use from Lifeguard aquatics. They make 3 models - the little time 'n temp, the Big Digital temp alert (this one has an audible alarm), and the Lifeguard LED Digital Thermometer. The lifeguard products are $20 - $30 each depending on model. Another high-quality, but more expensive option is the Pinpoint Marine digital thermometer - they're about $40.

To give you a reference point, I use 4 coralife cheap digital thermometers that I check for accuracy every 6 months or so with a lab-grade mercury thermometer. The ones I have consistently read 1 degrees Fahrenheit lower than the actual temp, but because they're consistent, they're usable and easily and cheaply replaceable.

Reef Frog · 01/31/2015, 10:15 AM

If you happen to be away and your home heat is set very low and your return pump or overflow malfunction, it's possible a tank can get dangerously cold if all the heaters are in the sump. If this scenario is is relevant it might be a good idea to put one heater in the display tank.

tmz · 01/31/2015, 10:53 AM

I use 6 heaters 250 w to 300 w in high flow areas of the sump for the 650 gallon . They are set at 82F and route through ranco controllers set at 78. The ehiem is relaible, IME.

ca1ore · 01/31/2015, 12:41 PM

Ambient room temperature is important. About 7 years ago I was on vacation in January. Returned home to find that the house boiler had shutoff and the house temperature was in the mid 40's. I had enough heating capacity on my tank to keep it as much as 20 degrees above ambient, but not 35. Tank was down at about 62 degrees. Fish were fine, actually, but lost all of my SPS ... lost the entire system not soon after. It's an unusual circumstance, and I still don't mitigate against that particular risk (other than the ability to remotely monitor tank status through Apex) but it's worth considering the range of 'normal' ambient temperatures.

tkeracer619 · 01/31/2015, 01:03 PM

I've been made fun of for having room temp on my controller.

SeeCrabRun · 01/31/2015, 01:24 PM

Thanks. Being away for an extended time is not a concern. Firstly because I don't travel, and secondly because if I do need to be away for more than 1 night I have someone to take care of my house as I have parrots who can't be left unattended and can't be boarded.

amber3k · 01/31/2015, 05:39 PM

Two heaters in the sump does not work for my tank in the winter. I run 200w in the sump and 250w in the dt. They are both set around the same temp. In the summer I am able to lower the dt heater a couple degrees and use it as a back up. Im assuming a cooler house in the winter is not an issue since you are probably keeping it a comfortable temp for the parrots.

SeeCrabRun · 01/31/2015, 06:06 PM

Yup, the heat is set at 72 at all times, 73 on days when it is close to freezing or dips under. We don't live in a very cold climate. I'm actually more concerned about overheating in the summer than being too cold in the winter.

Currently my 2 50w heaters in the 29g do not stay on all the time, so they aren't fighting to keep it warm. The 20H only has 1 50w and it isn't on all the time either. Temperature feels good to my hand, tank glass isn't cold, and temperature strips read at the level I expect.

These little heaters have been really good, shame they all rusted on the inside. I contacted the company and they said they would be covered under the warranty, but I have to pay return shipping and also include $5 for shipping for each to send the new ones back. I only paid $10 a piece for these as they were on sale at the time LOL so I'm not sure I'm going to bother with warranty replacement.

sean357 · 01/31/2015, 10:56 PM

Two heaters, I had a heater fail on in a smaller tank when I was out of town for a few days for work one time and the 100 degree melted coral fish soup convinced me that was the way to go.

Jorgiee · 05/10/2019, 08:57 AM

I am setting up a tank with a total tank volume of 97.2 gallons, 71.7 gallons in the display and 25.4 in the sump. I was thinking maybe two 75 watts heaters to equal to the 150 watts that is needed for this size. Any suggestions or Advice ? I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks !

mcgyvr · 05/10/2019, 10:11 AM

@Jorgiee
Typically you need 3-5 watts per gallon to provide enough heat for up to a 10 deg F ambient difference and by that I mean if your room is 70 deg F and you want to keep the temp at 80deg F you need 3 to 5 watts per gallon..
If the room is 60F and you want to keep tank at 80F you will need more than 5 watts per gallon.

01/30/2015, 08:14 PM	#1
SeeCrabRun Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 552	Heater questions: 1 or 2, tank only, tank and sump, or sump only? I need to buy new heaters and I would love some input. I have a 20H and standard 29g. I have 3 50w heaters, 1 in the 20H and 2 in the 29g. I'm building a sump for the 29g and planned on putting at least 1 heater in it. Then I was thinking both, but then I wondered if either? Firstly, what is your opinion on 2 lower watt heaters vs 1 or 2 higher watt heaters? The theory behind this is if 1 fails then you still have the other: -it fails because it shorts and dies. Then you still have the other to keep the tank from dropping temp really fast. -it fails and stays on at all times, it'll be lower heat than a higher watt and not as likely to cook the tank. It makes sense to me, but I'm no expert. Secondly, what wattage do I need for a 20H and 29g-with 10g sump? Lastly, would you put all heaters(if multiples) in the main tank, split them between tank and sump, or only in the sump? My plan was to get a 75w for the 20H, and 2 50w for the 29g and put them both in the sump. Opinions? __________________ Sara ~ Perpetually tinkering with my tanks.

01/30/2015, 09:00 PM	#2
ca1ore Grizzled & Cynical Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Stamford, CT Posts: 17,319	Ideally you want two heaters of modest rating such that one getting stuck cannot cook the tank and one completely failing will not allow the temperature to drop precipitously. I see no particular benefit to putting a heater in the tank; frankly its an eyesore best banished to the sump. If you have a main pump failure, you can always temporarily relocate them to the display. System of 40 gallons probably calls for two 75-100 watt heaters (assuming typical ambient room temp). __________________ Simon Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones! Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs

01/31/2015, 03:45 AM	#4
A sea K Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Branford Fl Posts: 3,024	I run two 75 watt heaters for my system; 30gal DT with a 20Lsump and a standard 10gal for a refugium. Both are hooked to a Ranco dual stage temp controller. Both heaters are in the sump. __________________ I am not a pro so excuse me if I'm wrong. Current Tank Info: 30gal Deep Blue rimless 9/10/2014, 80gal Deep Blue rimless 40gal sump/refugium 9/11/16 LPS reef, 2 x Kessil A160 with a single Maxspect Razor, RO Prime 150INT skimmer, Sicce 3 return pump, Vortech MP40 and MP10

01/31/2015, 09:09 AM	#7
SeeCrabRun Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 552	OK good, so 2 is indeed the way to go. I'm going to be getting the eheim heaters. I have viaaqua and they have performed very well, but the coil in all 3 are rusted now, so obviously not long term quality. My 20H does not have a sump and it has an open top, but is directly under the vent and that area stays pretty warm. The 29g will have a 10g sump in the cabinet and is in a different room. For the most part my house stays at about 70. I don't live in a cold climate area, so I'm more concerned about the summer. I don't have a controller and won't be getting one for a while. So can anyone recommend a good thermometer to monitor the temp? Right now I just have stick on strips and test the water with my hand to make sure nothing seems off. __________________ Sara ~ Perpetually tinkering with my tanks.

01/31/2015, 10:53 AM	#11
tmz ReefKeeping Mag staff Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: West Seneca NY Posts: 27,691	I use 6 heaters 250 w to 300 w in high flow areas of the sump for the 650 gallon . They are set at 82F and route through ranco controllers set at 78. The ehiem is relaible, IME. __________________ Tom Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.

01/30/2015, 11:48 PM	#3
lllesley Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 336	I run 2 heaters. One is plugged into controller box that is set to. 26 with a. 1 degree variance the other is plugged into a separate power board set to 25. If contrôller box fails for any reason the other one will kick In once at. 25.

01/31/2015, 08:43 AM	#6
dkeller_nc Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Central NC Posts: 5,062	Yes, 2 heaters of lower wattage are safer than one heater of a higher wattage. But a couple of pieces of advice: buy high-quality heaters. The one with the best reputation is the Eheim Jaeger, and Cobalt Aquatics Accu-therm and Neo-therm heaters have decent track records. Off-brands tend to fail, and sometimes fail spectacularly. To give you a reference point, I run a 150w Eheim Jaeger in my 20g high nano that has a 10 gallon sump. That's sufficient for maintaining a tank temp of 78 deg during the winter in my house, which stays about 65 deg F. Keep in mind that my nano's sump is in a mostly-enclosed cabinet, and the tank has a hood. If your tank is open-topped, I'd go with 2 100w heaters.

01/31/2015, 09:33 AM	#8
Frozenguy Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 226	I also run two smaller return pumps so if one pump fails, the other pump will still circulate water (and run full system through sump heaters).

01/31/2015, 09:39 AM	#9
dkeller_nc Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Central NC Posts: 5,062	Given your climate and your house temperature, I'd suggest a 100w Eheim for your 20g H, and two 75w Eheims for your tank with the sump. I suggest the single heater for your 20g H because it doesn't have a sump, and locating two heaters in the tank will be more of an eyesore. For temperature monitoring, I'll suggest two different routes. The first one involves two temperature measurement devices - a glass, lab-grade thermometer and the coralife $6 digital thermometers. The coralife devices are cheaply made and aren't all that accurate. But their readings are stable, so you can measure the true temperature with a lab-grade glass thermometer and figure out the off-set of the coralife unit, and use it on your tank. A lab-grade glass thermometer will cost you about $10 on amazon. The second option is a high-grade, accurate thermometer made for aquarium use from Lifeguard aquatics. They make 3 models - the little time 'n temp, the Big Digital temp alert (this one has an audible alarm), and the Lifeguard LED Digital Thermometer. The lifeguard products are $20 - $30 each depending on model. Another high-quality, but more expensive option is the Pinpoint Marine digital thermometer - they're about $40. To give you a reference point, I use 4 coralife cheap digital thermometers that I check for accuracy every 6 months or so with a lab-grade mercury thermometer. The ones I have consistently read 1 degrees Fahrenheit lower than the actual temp, but because they're consistent, they're usable and easily and cheaply replaceable.

01/31/2015, 10:15 AM	#10
Reef Frog Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Maryland Posts: 3,121	If you happen to be away and your home heat is set very low and your return pump or overflow malfunction, it's possible a tank can get dangerously cold if all the heaters are in the sump. If this scenario is is relevant it might be a good idea to put one heater in the display tank.

01/31/2015, 12:41 PM	#12
ca1ore Grizzled & Cynical Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Stamford, CT Posts: 17,319	Ambient room temperature is important. About 7 years ago I was on vacation in January. Returned home to find that the house boiler had shutoff and the house temperature was in the mid 40's. I had enough heating capacity on my tank to keep it as much as 20 degrees above ambient, but not 35. Tank was down at about 62 degrees. Fish were fine, actually, but lost all of my SPS ... lost the entire system not soon after. It's an unusual circumstance, and I still don't mitigate against that particular risk (other than the ability to remotely monitor tank status through Apex) but it's worth considering the range of 'normal' ambient temperatures. __________________ Simon Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones! Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs

01/31/2015, 01:03 PM	#13
tkeracer619 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Westminster, CO Posts: 17,289	I've been made fun of for having room temp on my controller. __________________ Hobby Experience: 9200ish gallons, 26 skimmers, and a handful of Kent Scrapers. Current Tank: Vortech Powered 600G SPS Tank w/ 100gal frag tank & 100g Sump. RK2-RK10 Skimmer. ReefAngel. Radium 20k.

01/31/2015, 01:24 PM	#14
SeeCrabRun Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 552	Thanks. Being away for an extended time is not a concern. Firstly because I don't travel, and secondly because if I do need to be away for more than 1 night I have someone to take care of my house as I have parrots who can't be left unattended and can't be boarded. __________________ Sara ~ Perpetually tinkering with my tanks.

01/31/2015, 05:39 PM	#15
amber3k Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Post Falls, Idaho Posts: 251	Two heaters in the sump does not work for my tank in the winter. I run 200w in the sump and 250w in the dt. They are both set around the same temp. In the summer I am able to lower the dt heater a couple degrees and use it as a back up. Im assuming a cooler house in the winter is not an issue since you are probably keeping it a comfortable temp for the parrots.

01/31/2015, 06:06 PM	#16
SeeCrabRun Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 552	Yup, the heat is set at 72 at all times, 73 on days when it is close to freezing or dips under. We don't live in a very cold climate. I'm actually more concerned about overheating in the summer than being too cold in the winter. Currently my 2 50w heaters in the 29g do not stay on all the time, so they aren't fighting to keep it warm. The 20H only has 1 50w and it isn't on all the time either. Temperature feels good to my hand, tank glass isn't cold, and temperature strips read at the level I expect. These little heaters have been really good, shame they all rusted on the inside. I contacted the company and they said they would be covered under the warranty, but I have to pay return shipping and also include $5 for shipping for each to send the new ones back. I only paid $10 a piece for these as they were on sale at the time LOL so I'm not sure I'm going to bother with warranty replacement. __________________ Sara ~ Perpetually tinkering with my tanks.

01/31/2015, 10:56 PM	#17
sean357 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 117	Two heaters, I had a heater fail on in a smaller tank when I was out of town for a few days for work one time and the 100 degree melted coral fish soup convinced me that was the way to go.

05/10/2019, 08:57 AM	#18
Jorgiee Registered Member Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 26	I am setting up a tank with a total tank volume of 97.2 gallons, 71.7 gallons in the display and 25.4 in the sump. I was thinking maybe two 75 watts heaters to equal to the 150 watts that is needed for this size. Any suggestions or Advice ? I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks !

05/10/2019, 10:11 AM	#19
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	@Jorgiee Typically you need 3-5 watts per gallon to provide enough heat for up to a 10 deg F ambient difference and by that I mean if your room is 70 deg F and you want to keep the temp at 80deg F you need 3 to 5 watts per gallon.. If the room is 60F and you want to keep tank at 80F you will need more than 5 watts per gallon. __________________ Who me?