would appreciate comments on new equip proposal

Gman94 · 01/17/2006, 10:48 AM

A couple of weeks ago I posted that I was looking for a pro to help me re-design my tank systems to deal with water quality, consistency, and flow issues. Currently, I use well water, that is filtered only by my house water softening system, for manual top off and water changes. Here is a proposal that I received to upgrade my system and would appreciate feedback regarding the equipment selection and price.

The idea is to create a stable environment by installing a RO/DI and setting up a system that will automatically do daily three gallon water changes and top off using the RO/DI water.

Proposal:
1) Install automatic top-off system for sump. A Tunze Osmolator with all pumps and switches. $161.00
2) Install RO/DI 5 stage water purifier. Spectrapure CSP 2000 80-100gph. System to include auto shut-off solenoid, float switches and hardware to mount & install $495.00 optional 180 ph unit +$105.00
3) Filter socks with 100 micron material to connect to drain pipes into sump
4) Provide 130 gallon salt mixing tank to be used for water changes. 36x24x36 $200.
5) Provide and install a submersible pump to mix salt in mixing tank. $130
6) Provide 25 gallon reservoir tank for top-off system (Osmolator). $130
7) Provide & install reef-filler peristaltic with two channels to perform daily water changes. $320.
8) A Deltec Kalk Stirrer to be installed for mixing Kalkwasser and will be connected to the auto-top off system to provide aquarium with calcium. $410.00
9) A Deltec fluidized reactor will be installed to house carbon or Rowaphos hosphate remover for additional water polishing and treatment. $200.
10) Kalkwasser and Rowaphos media. $100.
11) Install Tunze salinity monitor. $240.
12) Install Tunze temperature controller. $145.
13) Install Tunze Wavemaker system with two Tunze 6100 Stream pumps and one 7095 controller with moon lamp. $780.
14) Install two oscillating Sea Swirls inline with the returns to provide additional random current. $350.
15) Misc tubing, pipe, fittings, hardware. $150.

Hardware cost: $3,878. Labor: $1,100. Total $4,978

IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢d appreciate any comments and suggestions regarding the proposal. Thanks. -Larry

ReeferMonkey · 01/17/2006, 11:25 AM

From what I've heard, SpectraPure makes great products but you can certainly get a good RODI unit for much, much less than $500.

I'm not sure how you're stocking your tank but if you are heavy on stony corals a calcium reactor may be a better alternative to the Kalk stirrer. The two 6100s seem like they might be adequate for water movement depending on how much flow you're pushing through your returns.

All in all it looks like you're making some solid equipment choices.

Fiziksgeek · 01/17/2006, 12:57 PM

Personally, I would rather put in a little more work into the daily/weekly maintenance of the system rather then spend 5K to "upgrade" the system. However, if you feel that all of those components are necessary, I know there are cheaper options.

For example, as ReeferMonkey mentioned, there are much less expensice RO/DI units. I also wouldnt spend $200 on a mixing tank, and $130 more on a pump for it. I bet you can put together a similar system for 1/3-1/2 that price. $240 for a salinity monitor?? I bet you already have some type of refractometer, a couple of minutes every few days is all that is really needed to keep an eye on salinity.

The only good idea I really see on there is the tunze streams...

However, if money is no option...then go for it I suppose. For me, half the fun is working on the system!

Gman94 · 01/17/2006, 01:32 PM

Fiziksgeek, my original plan was to install a RO/DI system to provide pure water and simplify water changes and top offs via a couple of storage tanks using valves to manually dump water and add salt water and fresh water on a weekly basis. However, I was told that, in the long run, the best way to have a stable tank is to automate and monitor daily water exchanges. Does that make sense or do you think it is over-kill?

On the other hand, I am rather skeptical about complex technology. There is generally more to go wrong when things are automated and complex.

moonpod · 01/17/2006, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gman94
Proposal:
1) Install automatic top-off system for sump. A Tunze Osmolator with all pumps and switches. $161.00 YES
2) Install RO/DI 5 stage water purifier. Spectrapure CSP 2000 80-100gph. System to include auto shut-off solenoid, float switches and hardware to mount & install $495.00 optional 180 ph unit +$105.00 NO. Get comparable Airwaterice unit
3) Filter socks with 100 micron material to connect to drain pipes into sump
4) Provide 130 gallon salt mixing tank to be used for water changes. 36x24x36 $200.
5) Provide and install a submersible pump to mix salt in mixing tank. $130 jeez, all you need is a friggin maxijet
6) Provide 25 gallon reservoir tank for top-off system (Osmolator). $130
7) Provide & install reef-filler peristaltic with two channels to perform daily water changes. $320. Interesting idea. I suppose...
8) A Deltec Kalk Stirrer to be installed for mixing Kalkwasser and will be connected to the auto-top off system to provide aquarium with calcium. $410.00
9) A Deltec fluidized reactor will be installed to house carbon or Rowaphos hosphate remover for additional water polishing and treatment. $200.
10) Kalkwasser and Rowaphos media. $100.
11) Install Tunze salinity monitor. $240. Monitors are kinda unstable. They lose calibration relatively quickly. I'd just get like a Hanna hand held or pinpoint probe and use it to spot check
12) Install Tunze temperature controller. $145. these are nice but I see no real advantage over the ranco which is much cheaper
13) Install Tunze Wavemaker system with two Tunze 6100 Stream pumps and one 7095 controller with moon lamp. $780.
14) Install two oscillating Sea Swirls inline with the returns to provide additional random current. $350.
15) Misc tubing, pipe, fittings, hardware. $150.

Hardware cost: $3,878. Labor: $1,100. Total $4,978

IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢d appreciate any comments and suggestions regarding the proposal. Thanks. -Larry

Fiziksgeek · 01/17/2006, 02:29 PM

Hey Gman,

Weekly water changes are not a bad idea. I find bi-weekly work fine. Daily is certainly not necessary.

We dont know much about your tank either. How big, how is it stocked, how do you feed, how much volume do you loose to evaporation, etc. There are alot of people much more experienced on here who can give you better advice.

Is there a reef club in your area??? Other reefers are probably your best source of info. No matter how good they seem anyone from a LFS or other aquarium service in really just trying to sell you something. I bet you could get a couple people from a reef club to come over and look at your set-up, and offer advice. and if you offer pizza and beer, I bet they will be more then happy to help you implement some solutions.

Gman94 · 01/21/2006, 10:21 AM

Reefermonkey, Fiziksgeek & Moonpod,

I really appreciate your comments & advice. I'm going to be looking at a few tanks around here and do a little more research before I make up my mind. I agree that temp and salinity monitors are probably not necessary. I was also concerned about relying on instruments that may need to be recalibrated often. It's certainly not too difficult to manually measure the salinity and temperature.

moonpod · 01/21/2006, 11:14 AM

Temp monitor/controller is a necessity actually IMO. It's just that the Tunze doesn't offer any advantages over the Ranco which is a much cheaper unit.

Additionally when it comes down to it, if you are gonna want to monitor multiple aspects of the tank you really should look at aquarium computers (IKS, ELOS, Aquatronica, Aquacontroller, etc...) as all in one controller/monitor/timer solutions.

01/17/2006, 10:48 AM	#1
Gman94 Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Pikesville, MD Posts: 178	would appreciate comments on new equip proposal A couple of weeks ago I posted that I was looking for a pro to help me re-design my tank systems to deal with water quality, consistency, and flow issues. Currently, I use well water, that is filtered only by my house water softening system, for manual top off and water changes. Here is a proposal that I received to upgrade my system and would appreciate feedback regarding the equipment selection and price. The idea is to create a stable environment by installing a RO/DI and setting up a system that will automatically do daily three gallon water changes and top off using the RO/DI water. Proposal: 1) Install automatic top-off system for sump. A Tunze Osmolator with all pumps and switches. $161.00 2) Install RO/DI 5 stage water purifier. Spectrapure CSP 2000 80-100gph. System to include auto shut-off solenoid, float switches and hardware to mount & install $495.00 optional 180 ph unit +$105.00 3) Filter socks with 100 micron material to connect to drain pipes into sump 4) Provide 130 gallon salt mixing tank to be used for water changes. 36x24x36 $200. 5) Provide and install a submersible pump to mix salt in mixing tank. $130 6) Provide 25 gallon reservoir tank for top-off system (Osmolator). $130 7) Provide & install reef-filler peristaltic with two channels to perform daily water changes. $320. 8) A Deltec Kalk Stirrer to be installed for mixing Kalkwasser and will be connected to the auto-top off system to provide aquarium with calcium. $410.00 9) A Deltec fluidized reactor will be installed to house carbon or Rowaphos hosphate remover for additional water polishing and treatment. $200. 10) Kalkwasser and Rowaphos media. $100. 11) Install Tunze salinity monitor. $240. 12) Install Tunze temperature controller. $145. 13) Install Tunze Wavemaker system with two Tunze 6100 Stream pumps and one 7095 controller with moon lamp. $780. 14) Install two oscillating Sea Swirls inline with the returns to provide additional random current. $350. 15) Misc tubing, pipe, fittings, hardware. $150. Hardware cost: $3,878. Labor: $1,100. Total $4,978 IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢d appreciate any comments and suggestions regarding the proposal. Thanks. -Larry

01/21/2006, 11:14 AM	#8
moonpod Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: B.H., Los Angeles Posts: 13,053	Temp monitor/controller is a necessity actually IMO. It's just that the Tunze doesn't offer any advantages over the Ranco which is a much cheaper unit. Additionally when it comes down to it, if you are gonna want to monitor multiple aspects of the tank you really should look at aquarium computers (IKS, ELOS, Aquatronica, Aquacontroller, etc...) as all in one controller/monitor/timer solutions. __________________ Excuses are just the nails for the house of failure. Current Tank Info: 32" Leemar starfire cube now empty and not quite so stinky

01/17/2006, 11:25 AM	#2
ReeferMonkey Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 1,099	From what I've heard, SpectraPure makes great products but you can certainly get a good RODI unit for much, much less than $500. I'm not sure how you're stocking your tank but if you are heavy on stony corals a calcium reactor may be a better alternative to the Kalk stirrer. The two 6100s seem like they might be adequate for water movement depending on how much flow you're pushing through your returns. All in all it looks like you're making some solid equipment choices.

01/17/2006, 12:57 PM	#3
Fiziksgeek Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Oxford, CT Posts: 1,565	Personally, I would rather put in a little more work into the daily/weekly maintenance of the system rather then spend 5K to "upgrade" the system. However, if you feel that all of those components are necessary, I know there are cheaper options. For example, as ReeferMonkey mentioned, there are much less expensice RO/DI units. I also wouldnt spend $200 on a mixing tank, and $130 more on a pump for it. I bet you can put together a similar system for 1/3-1/2 that price. $240 for a salinity monitor?? I bet you already have some type of refractometer, a couple of minutes every few days is all that is really needed to keep an eye on salinity. The only good idea I really see on there is the tunze streams... However, if money is no option...then go for it I suppose. For me, half the fun is working on the system!

01/17/2006, 01:32 PM	#4
Gman94 Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Pikesville, MD Posts: 178	Fiziksgeek, my original plan was to install a RO/DI system to provide pure water and simplify water changes and top offs via a couple of storage tanks using valves to manually dump water and add salt water and fresh water on a weekly basis. However, I was told that, in the long run, the best way to have a stable tank is to automate and monitor daily water exchanges. Does that make sense or do you think it is over-kill? On the other hand, I am rather skeptical about complex technology. There is generally more to go wrong when things are automated and complex.

01/17/2006, 02:29 PM	#6
Fiziksgeek Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Oxford, CT Posts: 1,565	Hey Gman, Weekly water changes are not a bad idea. I find bi-weekly work fine. Daily is certainly not necessary. We dont know much about your tank either. How big, how is it stocked, how do you feed, how much volume do you loose to evaporation, etc. There are alot of people much more experienced on here who can give you better advice. Is there a reef club in your area??? Other reefers are probably your best source of info. No matter how good they seem anyone from a LFS or other aquarium service in really just trying to sell you something. I bet you could get a couple people from a reef club to come over and look at your set-up, and offer advice. and if you offer pizza and beer, I bet they will be more then happy to help you implement some solutions.

01/21/2006, 10:21 AM	#7
Gman94 Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Pikesville, MD Posts: 178	Reefermonkey, Fiziksgeek & Moonpod, I really appreciate your comments & advice. I'm going to be looking at a few tanks around here and do a little more research before I make up my mind. I agree that temp and salinity monitors are probably not necessary. I was also concerned about relying on instruments that may need to be recalibrated often. It's certainly not too difficult to manually measure the salinity and temperature.