Another Sin of the Aquarium Trade

ReefWaters · 12/14/2004, 10:49 PM

A good friend of mine (not a hobbyist) has a sister who is moving and buying a new tank in the process. I don't know the complete situation but what I do know is that she had a 90 gallon full of live rock and the tank had a supposedly epidemic case of macro algae on the rock.

Our LFS owner (no names, you can figure it out if you want to) supposedly worked with her for a while to fix the problem but they could never get it under control. By the time I found out about the situation, my friend had been given the tank and the LFS's "cure" for the problem was to leave the rock out in the yard until all the algae died.

I was absolutely horrified. I went to his house tonight to see if the rock was decent rock or if it was just base rock. I had never seen the tank set up. I found three styro boxes full of what had been VERY NICE Fiji with some Tonga Branch mixed in. The rock had tons of coralline algae on it and awesome shapes. I wanted to cry. There were all kinds of dead little creatures in the rock; snails, worms, little clams, etc. There was not much algae but it may have been cleaned off.

Shouldn't we require certain people to get a license to hand out reef advice. I don't mean to sound angry, rude, or like I know it all, because I don't, but it scares me that some people either are too ignorant to know what they are selling people or just don't care.

Please let me know if I'm wrong or out of place here.

ReefWaters

masterswimmer · 12/14/2004, 10:51 PM

What a shame.

graff71884 · 12/15/2004, 01:03 AM

I agree. Sounds like the typical advice you would get from MOST Lfs.

graff71884 · 12/15/2004, 01:07 AM

That rock is pretty much useless now. There really is no "live" left in that live rock. I would have been snatchin that rock up if I would have seen it out in someones yard in time or at least gave the owner of the rock some advice instead of leaving it in the yard. Wow, this ****es me off too Reefwaters. I hate hearing stuff like this!!!

newmoon · 12/15/2004, 02:40 AM

that LFS. What a shame.

aquaman67 · 12/15/2004, 07:20 AM

The bad part is the algae is probably the only thing that didn't die. As soon as the rock gets wet again, the algae will return...

GuidoSarduchi · 12/15/2004, 07:23 AM

Unbelievable. That's pretty sick.

I realized a lot of the "live rock" I've seen at pet stores lately looks like wet base rock. Hmmm.

Jamesurq · 12/15/2004, 07:25 AM

Sometimes - killing the rock is the last option. Did you ask what other methods they tried? I would think that the LFS would be trying to sell them potions and tangs to make proffit rather than telling them to kill the rock....

AquaticFins · 12/15/2004, 07:26 AM

*shrugs*

Put it back in some water and re-seed it with a little fresh live rock. A year later and it'll be good as new.

It's not the end of the world.

TangmanBC · 12/15/2004, 07:57 AM

wouldn't even take that long, I have bought foselized coral and had coraline algae growing on it in 3 months

andro · 12/15/2004, 08:34 AM

I had some hydroids on my rock once and the LFS owner told me to bleach the rock because their was nothing I could do. I pulled them off the roick with tweezers and it has been 2 years, still no hydroids. Glad I didn't listen to him.

reefdood · 12/15/2004, 08:45 AM

Algae LOVES brite white dried up then reused liverock. Take my word for it. I just took out 1/2 my rock yesterday and had to scrub and scrub and scrub it in a bucket of saltwater. All hair algae is gone for now but some of the rocks are a lovely shade of St. Patricks Day green.

traip93 · 12/15/2004, 10:29 AM

stick the rock back in the tank and it will be as good as new in a few weeks....wait, don't stick it back in the main tank until it is cured.

I'm abbout to do the same thing to get rid of yellow polyps, they are taking over my tannk!!!

STACKER · 12/15/2004, 10:41 AM

What Fins said! the longer the LR sits out the more that will die but as long as you don't bake it in the sun for a week not all will be lost. Funny how folks can be bum steered by the words of one person huh?

ReefWaters · 12/15/2004, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by graff71884
That rock is pretty much useless now. There really is no "live" left in that live rock. I would have been snatchin that rock up if I would have seen it out in someones yard in time or at least gave the owner of the rock some advice instead of leaving it in the yard. Wow, this ****es me off too Reefwaters. I hate hearing stuff like this!!!

The rock will make nice base rock and it still has good shape.

He mentioned to me a week or so ago that this was what he was told to do and I almost wrecked my car. I told him absolutely not to do that. He ended up doing it anyway and I didnt know about it until it was too late and the rock had been out in the cold and dry for about 5 days.

ReefWaters · 12/15/2004, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by aquaman67
The bad part is the algae is probably the only thing that didn't die. As soon as the rock gets wet again, the algae will return...

TOO TRUE!

ReefWaters · 12/15/2004, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GuidoSarduchi
Unbelievable. That's pretty sick.

I realized a lot of the "live rock" I've seen at pet stores lately looks like wet base rock. Hmmm.

This stuff was obviously ordered fresh and in bulk. I havent seen a fresh piece of live rock in this particular LFS for years. The "live rock" tank has a bunch of brown, completely lifeless, base looking rock with a big $8 per lb price tag on it. It makes me cring when I see it. I think he orders fresh rock when he sets up a new tank for someone and starts off new.

ReefWaters · 12/15/2004, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jamesurq
Sometimes - killing the rock is the last option. Did you ask what other methods they tried? I would think that the LFS would be trying to sell them potions and tangs to make proffit rather than telling them to kill the rock....

There is no telling what they tried. I dont know my friend's sister, the one who had the tank before all of this, and he has no clue whats going on.

I do know that this LFS owner is still a die hard bio tower guy (he just cant believe that Im not using one) and that the tank had one on it. He also doesnt seem to skim a whole lot. I often look under his tanks and see a small skimmer that is turned off.

ReefWaters · 12/15/2004, 02:34 PM

AquaticFins, REEF BOY120, traip93... I agree that it is not the end of the world and that most life will seed back into and onto the rock. I just hate the thought that there might have been something really cool in that rock that very few people have in their tanks. The strong, well adapted, life that usually survives on rock will always come back, its the other stuff that I like and hate to see lost.

Just MHO.

Quote:

Originally posted by STACKER
What Fins said! the longer the LR sits out the more that will die but as long as you don't bake it in the sun for a week not all will be lost. Funny how folks can be bum steered by the words of one person huh?

Its been in the low 40s the past few nights here and I'm not positive how long its been out. Around a week I think.

Does anyone think it would be worth mixing some fresh salt water with a few gallons from my tank in a brute, adding some power heads and the rock and let it cure for a few weeks? Or is it officially base rock now? My opinion is that is now base rock but I'm no expert. I also hate to spend the time and money on something that may not be salvageable and my friend will want it all back as well.

Great thoughts guys. I'm glad to hear that I'm pretty much on the same page as everyone else.

ReefWaters

ddenham · 12/15/2004, 03:04 PM

When the rock was left to die all the life inside of it died also. If the rock is put back into the tank, the decomposed life will just be fuel for lots more algae. I would "cook" the rock to rid the innards of the rock of any leftover organic waste. It's like an extended LR cure without light. Do a search for "cooking rock"

HTH---Dan

adrinal · 12/16/2004, 09:37 AM

Granted its a shame all the life died on the rocks.. but just cure it in a tub. Preferabally no-light-cure it with one piece of LR. Bacteria will come back.

ReefWaters · 01/29/2006, 04:37 PM

I was able to acquire the rock from my friend. He has had it sitting in his garage for a year now. The rock is pretty clean and will work great for base rock and fragging pieces in the future. Its still incredibly sad though IMO. His sister didnt even bother to pick the snails out of the rock and take them to the LFS. I found probably 10 shells and a couple of coral skeletons in the rubble.

Here are some pictures.

This table is 45" across. So you can see there was a good bit of rock.

Lordhelmet · 01/29/2006, 05:07 PM

not often you read a thread and a year later you get an update like this. It looks like you have some good base rock to seed.

eleodes · 01/29/2006, 05:54 PM

thanks for the update. it looks like that stuff will be good for base rock--it has very nice odd shapes.

it probably has a lot of nutrients in it because of all the dead organisms, so you will need to watch it carefully and manage if you start having problems. keeping it in a tub with some saltwater would probably be a good idea.

i am amazed every time i hear stories like this one. you would think that people (especially LFS owners and people who keep reef tanks) would have more regard for life especially stuff that comes right out of the wild.

12/14/2004, 10:49 PM	#1
ReefWaters Premium Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Savannah, GA Posts: 1,521	Another Sin of the Aquarium Trade A good friend of mine (not a hobbyist) has a sister who is moving and buying a new tank in the process. I don't know the complete situation but what I do know is that she had a 90 gallon full of live rock and the tank had a supposedly epidemic case of macro algae on the rock. Our LFS owner (no names, you can figure it out if you want to) supposedly worked with her for a while to fix the problem but they could never get it under control. By the time I found out about the situation, my friend had been given the tank and the LFS's "cure" for the problem was to leave the rock out in the yard until all the algae died. I was absolutely horrified. I went to his house tonight to see if the rock was decent rock or if it was just base rock. I had never seen the tank set up. I found three styro boxes full of what had been VERY NICE Fiji with some Tonga Branch mixed in. The rock had tons of coralline algae on it and awesome shapes. I wanted to cry. There were all kinds of dead little creatures in the rock; snails, worms, little clams, etc. There was not much algae but it may have been cleaned off. Shouldn't we require certain people to get a license to hand out reef advice. I don't mean to sound angry, rude, or like I know it all, because I don't, but it scares me that some people either are too ignorant to know what they are selling people or just don't care. Please let me know if I'm wrong or out of place here. ReefWaters __________________ "No, No, No, Lightspeed is too slow... We're gonna have to go right to LUDICROUSspeed" Current Tank Info: Taking a break for a while. Still Reading and Researching every day though.

12/14/2004, 10:51 PM	#2
masterswimmer Registered Member. Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: East of the Mississippi, north of the mason dixon line Posts: 3,255	What a shame. __________________ I said, "look honey, we paid the mortgage and we have all this money left over for the tank." Her response confused me. She said we still needed to buy food and pay the utilities. Current Tank Info: 75 10ecor, SLS TEK 6 x 54w T-5, Lifereef sump & VS2-24" skimmer, 15 gal. AGA fuge

12/15/2004, 01:03 AM	#3
graff71884 Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Ballwin Posts: 1,351	I agree. Sounds like the typical advice you would get from MOST Lfs. __________________ Jeff Current Tank Info: 65g mixed reef, 30g sump. ReeFi Duo Extreme, 2 QD MP10's, Clearwater ATS, & Deltec 600ix

12/15/2004, 01:07 AM	#4
graff71884 Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Ballwin Posts: 1,351	That rock is pretty much useless now. There really is no "live" left in that live rock. I would have been snatchin that rock up if I would have seen it out in someones yard in time or at least gave the owner of the rock some advice instead of leaving it in the yard. Wow, this ****es me off too Reefwaters. I hate hearing stuff like this!!! __________________ Jeff Current Tank Info: 65g mixed reef, 30g sump. ReeFi Duo Extreme, 2 QD MP10's, Clearwater ATS, & Deltec 600ix

12/15/2004, 07:23 AM	#7
GuidoSarduchi Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fox Valley Wisconsin Posts: 326	Unbelievable. That's pretty sick. I realized a lot of the "live rock" I've seen at pet stores lately looks like wet base rock. Hmmm. __________________ Scott.

12/15/2004, 02:40 AM	#5
newmoon Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: N. Miami Beach Posts: 1,622	that LFS. What a shame.

12/15/2004, 07:20 AM	#6
aquaman67 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Tennessee Posts: 7,629	The bad part is the algae is probably the only thing that didn't die. As soon as the rock gets wet again, the algae will return...

12/15/2004, 07:25 AM	#8
Jamesurq Moved On Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 5,470	Sometimes - killing the rock is the last option. Did you ask what other methods they tried? I would think that the LFS would be trying to sell them potions and tangs to make proffit rather than telling them to kill the rock....

12/15/2004, 07:26 AM	#9
AquaticFins Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 887	shrugs Put it back in some water and re-seed it with a little fresh live rock. A year later and it'll be good as new. It's not the end of the world.

12/15/2004, 07:57 AM	#10
TangmanBC Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 254	wouldn't even take that long, I have bought foselized coral and had coraline algae growing on it in 3 months __________________ HAPPY REEFING Current Tank Info: 225 Gallon

12/15/2004, 08:34 AM	#11
andro Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Hyde Park, NY Posts: 835	I had some hydroids on my rock once and the LFS owner told me to bleach the rock because their was nothing I could do. I pulled them off the roick with tweezers and it has been 2 years, still no hydroids. Glad I didn't listen to him.

12/15/2004, 08:45 AM	#12
reefdood Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Metairie, LA Posts: 1,553	Algae LOVES brite white dried up then reused liverock. Take my word for it. I just took out 1/2 my rock yesterday and had to scrub and scrub and scrub it in a bucket of saltwater. All hair algae is gone for now but some of the rocks are a lovely shade of St. Patricks Day green. __________________ ~I am Fragholio!~ ~I need species for my fraghole!~ Current Tank Info: 30g drilled display with a 20g sump, modded CPR skimmer in sump, Mag7 return, 1/4 hp chiller, Ranco DS, 175w Hamilton, (3) 3' VHO, IC 660, (2) hacksawed MJ 900's on a Waveaster Pro, LED moonlights, and an inch of sand.

12/15/2004, 10:29 AM	#13
traip93 Moved On Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Auburn, Georgia Posts: 1,140	stick the rock back in the tank and it will be as good as new in a few weeks....wait, don't stick it back in the main tank until it is cured. I'm abbout to do the same thing to get rid of yellow polyps, they are taking over my tannk!!!

12/15/2004, 10:41 AM	#14
STACKER Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 2,252	What Fins said! the longer the LR sits out the more that will die but as long as you don't bake it in the sun for a week not all will be lost. Funny how folks can be bum steered by the words of one person huh? __________________ No adds No links No endorsements Not a sellout! Current Tank Info: 120 gal Mixed Reef w/ 6 fish, 12 gal. Nano Mixed, 10 and 35 gal. hex's Fresh (wifes fishies)

12/15/2004, 03:04 PM	#20
ddenham Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 785	When the rock was left to die all the life inside of it died also. If the rock is put back into the tank, the decomposed life will just be fuel for lots more algae. I would "cook" the rock to rid the innards of the rock of any leftover organic waste. It's like an extended LR cure without light. Do a search for "cooking rock" HTH---Dan

12/16/2004, 09:37 AM	#21
adrinal Moved On Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 764	Granted its a shame all the life died on the rocks.. but just cure it in a tub. Preferabally no-light-cure it with one piece of LR. Bacteria will come back.

01/29/2006, 04:37 PM	#22
ReefWaters Premium Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Savannah, GA Posts: 1,521	UPDATE I was able to acquire the rock from my friend. He has had it sitting in his garage for a year now. The rock is pretty clean and will work great for base rock and fragging pieces in the future. Its still incredibly sad though IMO. His sister didnt even bother to pick the snails out of the rock and take them to the LFS. I found probably 10 shells and a couple of coral skeletons in the rubble. Here are some pictures. This table is 45" across. So you can see there was a good bit of rock. __________________ "No, No, No, Lightspeed is too slow... We're gonna have to go right to LUDICROUSspeed" Current Tank Info: Taking a break for a while. Still Reading and Researching every day though.

01/29/2006, 05:07 PM	#23
Lordhelmet Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,008	not often you read a thread and a year later you get an update like this. It looks like you have some good base rock to seed. __________________ I need a new signiture Current Tank Info: 90 gallon, 14 gallon

01/29/2006, 05:54 PM	#24
eleodes Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 361	thanks for the update. it looks like that stuff will be good for base rock--it has very nice odd shapes. it probably has a lot of nutrients in it because of all the dead organisms, so you will need to watch it carefully and manage if you start having problems. keeping it in a tub with some saltwater would probably be a good idea. i am amazed every time i hear stories like this one. you would think that people (especially LFS owners and people who keep reef tanks) would have more regard for life especially stuff that comes right out of the wild.