I'm at loss. (Fighting fish)

JeffandMindy · 02/01/2006, 09:33 PM

I am totally at loss.
For a while, we have had a Racoon Buttefly in our tank. He was healthy and eating like a pig. The other night. We went into our LFS and they had a beautiful 7-8 Naso Blonde Rang they have had in their tank for several weeks. He was doing fine in there.
They made be a deal, so I bought him and took him home.
Later that night, after I accumulated him and let him go.
He swam around the tank with grace. He ate like a pig and everythging seemed ok.
Only thing was, he would come back, time and time again and hover over our 3' Raccon. The Raccoon, stayed at the bottom, like it was paying to your Royal Highness.
As, I told Mindy, that he was showing off, his dominess in the tank, because he was the bigger fish.
The Naso seemed to keep wanting to pester the Raccon.
But, I felt with my experience and knowledge, they would settle in.

Yesterday, My Naso died and today, my Raccoon eye is white and having problems.
I figured, the only thing from yesterday, maybe my Naso died from being in "shock" and maybe it was my fault, I didn't accumilate him long enough.
After today. I am wondering if they got into a major fight.
Maybe the Naso died, as result.

Now, I have been in this hobby over 10 years and water parameters are perfect. So, I doubt it was a case of the water, but maybe a case of shiock or stress from fighting.
I know, Mindy is upset, because we lost a $70 Naso in one day and possibly a $40 Raccoon, in another.

I'm wondering if maybe the Naso was too big and that caused him to show his domince, and as a result of him pestering the Raccoon where they both got injured. I don't know. I didn't see really any fights..unless it happed over night.

Any ideas???

know-it-all · 02/01/2006, 10:03 PM

how big of a tank?

do you think you should have separated them somehow?

When I add new fish, I keep a pattern
1. put the fish in a qt tank for at least 1 week
the tank is plumbed into the display system, so water parameters are the same.
2. when I introduce new fish into displays, I turn the lights out for at least 24 hours
3. turn only half the lights on for the next 24-48 hours

never lost a fish under this system.
I have had a 50% loss when I do not follow the pattern

reefshadow · 02/01/2006, 10:06 PM

What is "perfect" for water chemistry? Readings for ph, alk, salinity, amm, and nitrite would be helpful.

What size tank and what equipment? Live rock?

How do you acclimate?

JeffandMindy · 02/01/2006, 10:25 PM

lol..I have a 220 with about 175 lbs of LR.
Salt. .025, Am=0, Ni=0, Nirates=.05

I have a CA Reator, Ecosystem. Pumped..all the goodies.

I accumulated by placing the bag, in the tank for over an hour, then , took a cup of water from the bag and pured it into my bucket and put a cup into the bag, did that every 5 minutes for an hour before letting the tang go an hour later.
Lights were out for more than 8 hours and only on..on one side of the tank for an hour or so, so it was pretty dim.

Nothing wrong with how, I accumlated.

Johnsteph10 · 02/01/2006, 10:26 PM

Your water may be "perfect" but the LFS water is probably far from that.

You always have to test the water in the bag and then begin acclimating according to that.

Oh, and QT. BTW, it is not QTing if you have your small tank connected to the main tank - if the fish came in with parasites and who know what you will infect your display.

hth a little!

JeffandMindy · 02/01/2006, 10:28 PM

The fish looked perfectly fine and I'm sure, my cleaners would have taken care of them. Plus, he was in a tank with Cleaner shrimp before mine.

He didn't have any visable problems, when he did either.

My Raccoon looked ok, till today also.

reefshadow · 02/01/2006, 11:37 PM

Maybe acclimation shock?

I would be suprised if a 7 inch naso lost in a fight against a butterfly, but stress may be a contributer?

Your lights were off for 8 hours and then very dim...what is your ph at and have you tested at different times in the light cycle? You can have enough variable in o2 and ph during the dim/dark cycle to kill fish esp if coupled with stress.

JeffandMindy · 02/02/2006, 01:03 AM

I'm thinking stress from maybe a fight...
Just by the way..things went on in the tank...
You could just tell...The naso was telling everyone he was boss.
Especially the Raccoon.

fishypapas · 02/02/2006, 02:01 AM

just curious,

but are there any other fish in the tank that posed a threat to the tang?

you said he was the biggest, but from what ive seen and read size isnt the most important thing when it comes to aggression.

those little damsels are terrors.

is it possible some other fish or fishes felt threatened either by its size or being near their territory and decided to hassle it to death?

just a thought.

fo

BTTRFLYGRL · 02/02/2006, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JeffandMindy
The fish looked perfectly fine and I'm sure, my cleaners would have taken care of them. Plus, he was in a tank with Cleaner shrimp before mine.

He didn't have any visable problems, when he did either.

My Raccoon looked ok, till today also.

Cleaners are great but if you introduce a fish to your display that has ich [or worse, amyloodium] the Cleaners will not be able to keep up with the mass reproduction of these parasites
Just because he looked good doesn't mean he was parasite free . I have 3 new Tangs in 2 separate qt now , they were the picture of health at purchase but after 1 1/2 weeks in qt-ich!! Unfortunately if your Naso had a parasite or other disease, your Raccoon is now at risk. Keep a close eye on him

know-it-all · 02/02/2006, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Johnsteph10

Oh, and QT. BTW, it is not QTing if you have your small tank connected to the main tank - if the fish came in with parasites and who know what you will infect your display.

hth a little!

I know, it's more of a timeout tank
I have never had a problem with parasites making their way through the entire system and innfect the displays
I ussually do a FW dip after an hour in the tank to make sure
and if there is any sine of parasite's,
I turn the pump off to the qt tank and start the treatment
for the next question, I do not dose the tank with anything I do dip's
and if anything needs to be medicated, into a seperate tank it goes.

02/01/2006, 09:33 PM	#1
JeffandMindy Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Jeffersonville, In Posts: 18	I'm at loss. (Fighting fish) I am totally at loss. For a while, we have had a Racoon Buttefly in our tank. He was healthy and eating like a pig. The other night. We went into our LFS and they had a beautiful 7-8 Naso Blonde Rang they have had in their tank for several weeks. He was doing fine in there. They made be a deal, so I bought him and took him home. Later that night, after I accumulated him and let him go. He swam around the tank with grace. He ate like a pig and everythging seemed ok. Only thing was, he would come back, time and time again and hover over our 3' Raccon. The Raccoon, stayed at the bottom, like it was paying to your Royal Highness. As, I told Mindy, that he was showing off, his dominess in the tank, because he was the bigger fish. The Naso seemed to keep wanting to pester the Raccon. But, I felt with my experience and knowledge, they would settle in. Yesterday, My Naso died and today, my Raccoon eye is white and having problems. I figured, the only thing from yesterday, maybe my Naso died from being in "shock" and maybe it was my fault, I didn't accumilate him long enough. After today. I am wondering if they got into a major fight. Maybe the Naso died, as result. Now, I have been in this hobby over 10 years and water parameters are perfect. So, I doubt it was a case of the water, but maybe a case of shiock or stress from fighting. I know, Mindy is upset, because we lost a $70 Naso in one day and possibly a $40 Raccoon, in another. I'm wondering if maybe the Naso was too big and that caused him to show his domince, and as a result of him pestering the Raccoon where they both got injured. I don't know. I didn't see really any fights..unless it happed over night. Any ideas???

02/01/2006, 10:03 PM	#2
know-it-all Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: in my now frozen chair (aka Wisconsin) Posts: 1,488	how big of a tank? do you think you should have separated them somehow? When I add new fish, I keep a pattern 1. put the fish in a qt tank for at least 1 week the tank is plumbed into the display system, so water parameters are the same. 2. when I introduce new fish into displays, I turn the lights out for at least 24 hours 3. turn only half the lights on for the next 24-48 hours never lost a fish under this system. I have had a 50% loss when I do not follow the pattern __________________ current tank 94 corner, SPS/LPS basement sump

02/01/2006, 10:06 PM	#3
reefshadow Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Central Washington Posts: 1,786	What is "perfect" for water chemistry? Readings for ph, alk, salinity, amm, and nitrite would be helpful. What size tank and what equipment? Live rock? How do you acclimate? __________________ All Your Coral Are Belong To Us Current Tank Info: 30 Deep Blue shallow mixed rimless, MP10, Ecoxotic LED's, SCA 301 skimmer.

02/01/2006, 10:26 PM	#5
Johnsteph10 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: The South Posts: 2,537	Your water may be "perfect" but the LFS water is probably far from that. You always have to test the water in the bag and then begin acclimating according to that. Oh, and QT. BTW, it is not QTing if you have your small tank connected to the main tank - if the fish came in with parasites and who know what you will infect your display. hth a little! __________________ John Current Tank Info: None

02/01/2006, 11:37 PM	#7
reefshadow Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Central Washington Posts: 1,786	Maybe acclimation shock? I would be suprised if a 7 inch naso lost in a fight against a butterfly, but stress may be a contributer? Your lights were off for 8 hours and then very dim...what is your ph at and have you tested at different times in the light cycle? You can have enough variable in o2 and ph during the dim/dark cycle to kill fish esp if coupled with stress. __________________ All Your Coral Are Belong To Us Current Tank Info: 30 Deep Blue shallow mixed rimless, MP10, Ecoxotic LED's, SCA 301 skimmer.

02/01/2006, 10:25 PM	#4
JeffandMindy Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Jeffersonville, In Posts: 18	lol..I have a 220 with about 175 lbs of LR. Salt. .025, Am=0, Ni=0, Nirates=.05 I have a CA Reator, Ecosystem. Pumped..all the goodies. I accumulated by placing the bag, in the tank for over an hour, then , took a cup of water from the bag and pured it into my bucket and put a cup into the bag, did that every 5 minutes for an hour before letting the tang go an hour later. Lights were out for more than 8 hours and only on..on one side of the tank for an hour or so, so it was pretty dim. Nothing wrong with how, I accumlated.

02/01/2006, 10:28 PM	#6
JeffandMindy Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Jeffersonville, In Posts: 18	The fish looked perfectly fine and I'm sure, my cleaners would have taken care of them. Plus, he was in a tank with Cleaner shrimp before mine. He didn't have any visable problems, when he did either. My Raccoon looked ok, till today also.

02/02/2006, 01:03 AM	#8
JeffandMindy Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Jeffersonville, In Posts: 18	I'm thinking stress from maybe a fight... Just by the way..things went on in the tank... You could just tell...The naso was telling everyone he was boss. Especially the Raccoon.

02/02/2006, 02:01 AM	#9
fishypapas Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: stafford Posts: 288	just curious, but are there any other fish in the tank that posed a threat to the tang? you said he was the biggest, but from what ive seen and read size isnt the most important thing when it comes to aggression. those little damsels are terrors. is it possible some other fish or fishes felt threatened either by its size or being near their territory and decided to hassle it to death? just a thought. fo