minimum light repuirements for LR?

xrbzq · 02/18/2006, 06:52 PM

It's my first venture into sw (and this forum for that matter) and I keep getting conflicting info(go figure). I have a 60L (72"x12"x17")with Aqua C skimmer, canister filter, 2 jets, and 3 helios T-5II 3 foot bulbs, 28w each(the 4th burned out). I have 9 lbs (I know i need alot more, budget, you know) base LR under the side with 2 bulbs with 2 small damsels. The tank has been running for a week. Am I going to kill my LR or the coralinne algae or little critters in the rock with this little bit of lighting? For that matter are my fish doomed or might they be OK? When money permits I'll get proper light, more LR(a little every payday), and someday coral(for now I'm happy with FOWLR). But for now I don't want to mistreat any of my animals, so what would you folks recommend?

artful-dodger · 02/18/2006, 06:54 PM

Welcome!

The live rock will be fine with little or no light. Coralline will probably die off, but don't worry about it. It will come back when it has good lighting and enouch calcium.

Adding a bit of rock at a time can be a little risky, though. Each new addition can induce another nitrogen cycle unless you are sure that the rock is fully cured and you keep it in saltwater from purchase to placement in the tank. I fully understand the budget limitations, though. Consider buying another (used) tank or a Rubbermaid storage tub and curing each new batch of rock as you get it. Add a power head or two for circulation. Use old tank water from your water changes. Monitor the ammonia and nitrite levels for at least a week after bringing the new rock home to make sure it is okay.

(This tank sounds quite a bit bigger than 60L, though...those dimensions would be just a bit over 60 gallons)

Fast Fred · 02/18/2006, 07:34 PM

I agree with what's stated above.

Live rock is 'live' because of the bacteria that live on it. They don't need light. Fish couldn't care less about lighting. If you're going to add live rock a few pieces at a time, either cure it yourself, of buy rock that is already cured and limit the time it spends out of the water to minutes, rather than hours. You might also try seeding the tank with a few pounds of live rock, and using base rock for the rest. This will save you a ton of money.

That tank does sound a lot bigger than 60g, but after doing the calculations based on the dimentions you give, it's still only 63.3 gallons. Amazing!

BurntOutReefer · 02/18/2006, 08:42 PM

Those are probably outside dims........hence 63.3 G......
and yes...good info provide by all

xrbzq · 02/19/2006, 04:05 PM

Thanx for the help. I found a store with dry coral rocks for a base at 1/5 the price of cheap LR. I'm gonna get a bunch of that. I'll worry about curing more LR later. What levels of ammonia/nitrite are harmful to damsels. Not so I can put rock directly in the tank, but so I know if I'm hurting them with my current setup?
Can you tell if LR is cured or not just by looking at it? (I'm pretty sure the one I got was, but you never know). My tank doesn't smell bad, and I live 5 minutes from the lfs so it wasn't out of water long(I was thinking about briging water with me to cut that time down even more). My skimmer is getting some foam, but not much(it would probably take 5-8 days or more to fill the cup, but I clean it every morning). If I lower the cup it just gets soupy.
Yeah, it's a wierd tank size probably better suited to freshwater, but ya run what ya brung and make it work. I wasn't ready for sw, but I couldn't find the fish I wanted, and marine fish are soo much more beautiful. I did get several good books before getting started, so I'm only 99.9% ignorant.

Thanks again for the help!

artful-dodger · 02/19/2006, 05:24 PM

You can't tell anything from looking at it...only by subjecting the tank to a source of ammonia (fish waste, decaying shrimp, etc.) Smell is noticable during curing (can drive you out of the house sometimes...) but it isn't good enough...test.

Damsels can handle high levels of ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. Back the olden days we would cycle a tank just be adding and feeding some damsels. Before going down that path, be sure that you want the damsels for the long run...they can be pretty nasty little devils. Hopefully your LFS will take them back when the tank is cycled or you are going to add other fish that can fight back, that's fine.

Even the best brands of skimmer will take awhile to start working at full efficiency. Adjust it so that the foam rises easily to the top but you don't get really wet skimate in the cup.

xrbzq · 02/20/2006, 01:49 PM

I'm going to the lfs to test today(couldn't get tests yet, this week for sure). I thought about a peaceful tank of 2-3" reef fish, but the damsels are growing on me so much I might stock with them and some chromis exclusivly(If chromis will be compatible, not sure yet. Gotta do more research).I am aware of their aggression, so I won't mix them with anything. I don't want anything bigger than 3", maybe4", at that size I haven't found anything that can handle a damsel. Anything bigger and I feel bad about cramping them. The tanks only 72x12", after all.
How bad is it to rearrange the rockscape in a marine tank with no invertebrates? I know to keep the rocks in the same orientation for light, but without light needing animals, is it a big deal?

Recife · 02/20/2006, 02:26 PM

On a related now, what is the recommended lighting to keep coraline alive on your live rock? I'm thinking of 4 x 65w PC for my 120gal tank. Would that be enough?

I'm also going for FOWLR, but it would be nice to have more than bacteria on my rock.

02/18/2006, 06:52 PM	#1
xrbzq Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Daytona Beach Posts: 54	minimum light repuirements for LR? It's my first venture into sw (and this forum for that matter) and I keep getting conflicting info(go figure). I have a 60L (72"x12"x17")with Aqua C skimmer, canister filter, 2 jets, and 3 helios T-5II 3 foot bulbs, 28w each(the 4th burned out). I have 9 lbs (I know i need alot more, budget, you know) base LR under the side with 2 bulbs with 2 small damsels. The tank has been running for a week. Am I going to kill my LR or the coralinne algae or little critters in the rock with this little bit of lighting? For that matter are my fish doomed or might they be OK? When money permits I'll get proper light, more LR(a little every payday), and someday coral(for now I'm happy with FOWLR). But for now I don't want to mistreat any of my animals, so what would you folks recommend? __________________ Whaddaya mean I can't turn the pool into a reef tank? Current Tank Info: 60g FOWLR (in progress)

02/18/2006, 06:54 PM	#2
artful-dodger Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Highlands Ranch, Colorado Posts: 3,011	Welcome! The live rock will be fine with little or no light. Coralline will probably die off, but don't worry about it. It will come back when it has good lighting and enouch calcium. Adding a bit of rock at a time can be a little risky, though. Each new addition can induce another nitrogen cycle unless you are sure that the rock is fully cured and you keep it in saltwater from purchase to placement in the tank. I fully understand the budget limitations, though. Consider buying another (used) tank or a Rubbermaid storage tub and curing each new batch of rock as you get it. Add a power head or two for circulation. Use old tank water from your water changes. Monitor the ammonia and nitrite levels for at least a week after bringing the new rock home to make sure it is okay. (This tank sounds quite a bit bigger than 60L, though...those dimensions would be just a bit over 60 gallons) __________________ "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." -- Thomas Jefferson Current Tank Info: 140g RR Oceanic "Ultimate" mixed reef, 37g softies, 40g RBTA tank, 65g FOWLR, 40g breeder frag, and (of course) a 29g QT! ...next up is a 240g! (Gotta go to K-Mart and buy a life...) Last edited by artful-dodger; 02/18/2006 at 07:10 PM.

02/18/2006, 07:34 PM	#3
Fast Fred Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Northfield, NJ 08225 Posts: 1,170	I agree with what's stated above. Live rock is 'live' because of the bacteria that live on it. They don't need light. Fish couldn't care less about lighting. If you're going to add live rock a few pieces at a time, either cure it yourself, of buy rock that is already cured and limit the time it spends out of the water to minutes, rather than hours. You might also try seeding the tank with a few pounds of live rock, and using base rock for the rest. This will save you a ton of money. That tank does sound a lot bigger than 60g, but after doing the calculations based on the dimentions you give, it's still only 63.3 gallons. Amazing! __________________ Ya know, for a clown fish, you're not very funny! Member of the New Jersey Reefers Club Current Tank Info: 125g Reef Ready AGA /55g Top Fin Tank for a sump/refugium/ LifeReef Skimmer/ Changing over to SPS only

02/19/2006, 04:05 PM	#5
xrbzq Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Daytona Beach Posts: 54	Thanx for the help. I found a store with dry coral rocks for a base at 1/5 the price of cheap LR. I'm gonna get a bunch of that. I'll worry about curing more LR later. What levels of ammonia/nitrite are harmful to damsels. Not so I can put rock directly in the tank, but so I know if I'm hurting them with my current setup? Can you tell if LR is cured or not just by looking at it? (I'm pretty sure the one I got was, but you never know). My tank doesn't smell bad, and I live 5 minutes from the lfs so it wasn't out of water long(I was thinking about briging water with me to cut that time down even more). My skimmer is getting some foam, but not much(it would probably take 5-8 days or more to fill the cup, but I clean it every morning). If I lower the cup it just gets soupy. Yeah, it's a wierd tank size probably better suited to freshwater, but ya run what ya brung and make it work. I wasn't ready for sw, but I couldn't find the fish I wanted, and marine fish are soo much more beautiful. I did get several good books before getting started, so I'm only 99.9% ignorant. Thanks again for the help! __________________ Whaddaya mean I can't turn the pool into a reef tank? Current Tank Info: 60g FOWLR (in progress)

02/19/2006, 05:24 PM	#6
artful-dodger Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Highlands Ranch, Colorado Posts: 3,011	You can't tell anything from looking at it...only by subjecting the tank to a source of ammonia (fish waste, decaying shrimp, etc.) Smell is noticable during curing (can drive you out of the house sometimes...) but it isn't good enough...test. Damsels can handle high levels of ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. Back the olden days we would cycle a tank just be adding and feeding some damsels. Before going down that path, be sure that you want the damsels for the long run...they can be pretty nasty little devils. Hopefully your LFS will take them back when the tank is cycled or you are going to add other fish that can fight back, that's fine. Even the best brands of skimmer will take awhile to start working at full efficiency. Adjust it so that the foam rises easily to the top but you don't get really wet skimate in the cup. __________________ "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." -- Thomas Jefferson Current Tank Info: 140g RR Oceanic "Ultimate" mixed reef, 37g softies, 40g RBTA tank, 65g FOWLR, 40g breeder frag, and (of course) a 29g QT! ...next up is a 240g! (Gotta go to K-Mart and buy a life...)

02/18/2006, 08:42 PM	#4
BurntOutReefer Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Granada Hills Posts: 4,376	Those are probably outside dims........hence 63.3 G...... and yes...good info provide by all

02/20/2006, 01:49 PM	#7
xrbzq Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Daytona Beach Posts: 54	I'm going to the lfs to test today(couldn't get tests yet, this week for sure). I thought about a peaceful tank of 2-3" reef fish, but the damsels are growing on me so much I might stock with them and some chromis exclusivly(If chromis will be compatible, not sure yet. Gotta do more research).I am aware of their aggression, so I won't mix them with anything. I don't want anything bigger than 3", maybe4", at that size I haven't found anything that can handle a damsel. Anything bigger and I feel bad about cramping them. The tanks only 72x12", after all. How bad is it to rearrange the rockscape in a marine tank with no invertebrates? I know to keep the rocks in the same orientation for light, but without light needing animals, is it a big deal? __________________ Whaddaya mean I can't turn the pool into a reef tank? Current Tank Info: 60g FOWLR (in progress)

02/20/2006, 02:26 PM	#8
Recife Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Bellevue - WA Posts: 282	On a related now, what is the recommended lighting to keep coraline alive on your live rock? I'm thinking of 4 x 65w PC for my 120gal tank. Would that be enough? I'm also going for FOWLR, but it would be nice to have more than bacteria on my rock.