New MH Lights + 3-Year-Old Tank = What Next?

[starseed]

Hello All,

Long post - 3 simple questions:

• 1) Help with Anenome decision
  2) Help with Clam decision
  3) Help with Coral Selection and placement

I have a stable 3 year old tank and just bought new MH lights

It's time to add corals and I'm not sure where to start and which ones to choose from and where to place them.

I've learned allot to get ready for corals and have had polyps and mushrooms and years to establish the waters. But because I now have the light and an established tank - the world of coral really opened up and I'm feeling overwhelmed.

IMHO the tank (and I) can handle more sensitive species now but I really need the advice of some of the Reef Central Elders!

Picture My 48" 55 gallon tank

• *The left side of my tank has a high water flow and high lighting.
  *The middle of my tank has a high to moderate water flow and *high lighting.
  *The right side of my tank has low to moderate flow and some high lighting areas (there is a great clam area there I think) and low light areas due to caves and the overflow.

I would first like to add a Bubble Tip anemone - Why:

• *I love anemone
  *My clown will have fun
  *A Bubble Tip would be best for me since it's my first anemone
  *Bubble Tips like rocky footing which my tank provides and will also allow me to place the anemone directly under one MH and also isolate it on a "Rock Island or Peak" to start
  *I don't have any corals yet, I thought it might be smarter to establish the anemone first incase it does need to move around the tank - at least there isn't much to sting
  *And finally, once the anemone is established and healthy - I would feel more comfortable adding other delicate corals and clams

Next I would like to add a clam or two - Why:

• *I love clams
  *I have a great spot on the right side of my tank that is flat live rock they can attach to, directly under a MH and can hold 1 to 3 clams
  *The water flow there is moderate which I understand they like
  *I would have to start adding filter feeder food to my tank at this point

Finally, I would like to add - cover my tank with CORAL - But How:

• *I almost need a chart or list of compatible species, their requirements, etc. (I understand looking at compatibility with fish, but not corals)
  *What corals are going to like the high light - high flow area
  *What corals are going to like the high light - mod flow area
  *What corals are going to like the high light - low flow area
  *What corals are going to like low light areas or indirect light
  *What hard corals can be mixed with soft corals
  *What corals are less compatible with other coral species
  *Which are the hardiest and the most difficult
  *Which should I start adding first, second, last

I'm not going to impulse my coral purchases - I need a grounded plan that is smart and right for my tank - then I can star stocking the tank.

My tank has good, stable conditions - here are all the stats:

Size
*55 gallon + 10 gallon sump = 60 gallon water volume.

Filtration
*75 pounds (min.) live rock filtration - plan to add another 15-20 pounds for extra space for coral frags

Lighting
*2 96 PCs one blue/one white
*2 HMs each 175
*Tank is 48 inches long
*There is a low light area on the right side of the tank due to caves and overflow

Water Flow
*Tank is Bare Bottom
*High to Moderate water flow
*There are 3 1200mph power heads in the tank - 2 on each side and one on the bottom/rear of the tank to prevent waste from collecting
*The left side of the tank has a very high water flow - the middle has moderate to high - the right has low to moderate flow (and is also the low light area)

Water Parameters
*Ammonia - 0
*Nitrite - 0
*Nitrate - 0-5
*PH - 8.2
*Alkalinity - LOW - swings between 4.5 KH to 8.0 KH
*Calcium - 450
*Phosphate - 0-.015

Additives
*RO/DI water
*Kent salt
*Kent Iodine (10 drops daily)
*Kent Strontium (1.5ccs daily)
*B Ionic 2 part Alkalinity/Calcium (15ccs daily - keeps calcium at 450, but not the Alkalinity at 8KH)

Water Changes
15% to 25% weekly
1 gallon every other day (I siphon out the poop and waste from by bare bottom every other day)

Occupants
*3 fish - Purple Fire Fish - Clown Fish - Ainthia
*2 Zoo polyps species
*6 mushroom species
*all happy for 1 to 3 years

Clean-up Crew
*4 Turbos
*6 Nassurous
*3 scarlet Hermits
*1 Sally crab
*3 Emerald crabs
* I will have to add 2 peppermint shrimp - my main aspiata control

Algae - Pests
*Aspiata - my last peppermint died 6 months ago and "there baaack"
* No real algae problem, no hair or green or brown - tons of coralline, but hard brown algae will build-up on the front glass after 2 weeks

The tank is over 3 years old and well established with stable parameters.

I did struggle with a Phosphate and Nitrate problem. Phosphates came from starting the tank with tap water (Phosphate will attach to live rock and leach back into the water), but after a RO/DI filter and 3 years of water changes, the Phosphates are usually at 0, but never get above .015.

Nitrates came from the typical process, I tried a Deep Sand Bed to help - that did nothing if not make it worse - a year or two later I removed all the sand and went bare bottom. Suddenly when I did a water change the Nitrates fell and actually stayed down till the next water change. Then I added the 1200mph power head to the bottom rear of the tank and the flow keeps uneaten food and poop from catching in the rock - instead it pushes it all to the front right corner of the tank where the fish can see and eat any uneaten food - the poop snails and hermits all hang-out there - and I can siphon it out regularly long before it breaks down into ammonia, phosphate, or nitrate.

Everything is really stable - but the Alk

[starseed]

Please...

[DJ88©]

Great post.. First I will move this to where a larger audience will read it. Then I will see what I can give you some help with.

This thread has been moved to the current forum.

[DJ88©]

ok.. Where to start..

Alk. Do you use any kinds of additives at all? or just water changes? I am betting that your Corraline is causing the lower alk. Start looking at dosing in one manner or another.

Clams. I'd look at getting a Derasa to start. They don't need the light that say a Crocea does. Great way to start. And with 175W MH's you shoudl be fine.

Anemone. One thing to concider with these guys. They can wander. And pack enough of a punch to kill pretty much any coral in their path. They are beautiful though.

With that said. BTA's are fairly easy to keep. See if you can find a captive raised clone. If it sits still, don't change anything ie flow or lighting. Once you do you stand a good chance of it wandering to a new home.

Corals. This is going to be something you will have to look into. With the lighting I'd suggest looking at LPS and Soft corals. Many SPS will need higher light if they are lower in the tank but will probably be ok up near the top uner the MH's.

Do you have any books you can look at for what the corals look like? The first step is finding what appeals to you. Then read, read, read. There is more than enough info available here on RC and in books as far as compatibility goes.

Well I hope that is a good start.

[jasutton]

instead of an anemone you could look into a long tentacle plate coral that your clown may cuddle up to...after keeping anemones they are a pain...they definately wander. Also, a torch or frogspawn may work too. Plus they are perrty.

To dose the ALk: i use Kent Tech Ca A & B. I have heard that B-IONIC is good, but i have never tried it.

Anmd like DJ88 says, corals...have at it! get what you like, there are plenty to choose from and i dont think you will have any problem keeping any.

Goodluck!

Jamie

[brad23]

Keep the useless comments to yourself.

[starseed]

Thanks...

Actually, I just read a great RC article about water changes. I don't use water changes to add elements, I mainly use them to remove elements. After reading the article, I could be changing out too much water. I remove about one gallon every other day and replace it with new water. Once a week I change 10 to 15 gallon which is about 20% to 25%. When I add the 1 gal every other day, that's another 23%.

Anyway, that is mainly how I got my nitrate and phosphates to near 0 (I need a new Salifer (sp?) kit for each) without a skimmer.

I add Calcium and Alkalinity via B-Ionic 2 part, each at 15 ppm daily - it keeps the calcium up at 450 but not the Alk.

I also add strontium (1.5ccs daily) and iodine (10 drops daily) from Kent.

There is a ton of coralline algae over the rocks, bottom, rear and sides. Most of it is purple and about 1/5 is green and a few redder patches. coralline is the dominate algae in the tank.

2 questions:

1) How does coralline lower the Alk
2) If I added more of B-Ionic Part 1 Alk (say 20ccs) and only added the same 15ccs of Calcium Part B - would it be OK?

My Calcium is at 450 - I know Clams and Corals will start absorbing calcium once I start adding them and I'll have to up the Calcium anyway.

I just did a quick read on Derasa Clams - The do make the most sense for my first clam so I think that will be a safe purchase. Most I have seen are brown and I would prefer a green or blue and I think those are out there.

The Derasa Clam will be my first clam.

I have a spot that is mid-level in the tank and right under the 175 MH - If I ever try a Crocea Clam, would that be enough light or would it starve. I plan to make to areas in the tank where live rock is high under the 2 MHs so I can have a space for a few SPSs. I thought I might dedicate one MH to a Crocea and one MH to a few SPSs.

I also need to know how much space clams need between each other

I think I'm going to have to let go of the anemones. I love them just for them (not for a clown - he loves the mushrooms), but the wander factor is worrisome. I still haven't decided those so could use more feedback. Seems like since the tanks is limited in stock, if one is going to add an anemone, I would think now would be the time.

I'm leaning on no anemones though - since my goal is to cover the tank with coral with one clam shelf.

I looked at LPS and Soft Coral pics - which help put together the species I have drooled over in the local stores - those will work fine for me as the main corals. And like I said, I'll make a high point under 1 MH for a few SPSs in the future.

OK - so far on my shopping list:

1 Derasa clam
Any pretty LPS and Softies

I never heard of a Noob though - he he he

[new2u]

Wow, sounds like great husbandry to me. Heres a suggestion, if you can make a little rock "Island" with no other rocks touching it and give it some high flow, which is what I did. Then put your cloned BTA on there and Viola, preventing the killing of corals and ect. This was reccomended by bob fenner and keeps my two RBTAS and BTAs from moving around too much.

[jasutton]

you got lucky because i swear mine wandered regardless...i tried everything

[dots]

Anenome: Had a few BTA's and always wandered and hated it, got a sebae and hasn't moved once, and doubled in size. Easier to care for IMO

Clam: Of the different kinds, Maximas and Croceas go on the rocks and the others can go in the sand, keep this in thought. The larger they are the more dependent of light rather than feeding, which makes them possibly easier to keep. My first is a 4" Crocea and have had it for a couple of months with no problems what so ever.

Corals: Softies? LPS? SPS? Your tank is a big jigsaw puzzle, with things that can and won't go together. Anenome and LPS will sting SPS. SPS are more expensive, sensitive, but IMO more beautiful than the others, but I like a challenge and am trying to keep a little of everything, very dangerous. LPS come in a large variety and are not as easily harmed by a moving anenome, do not need as high flow as SPS, which if you do have high flow LPS may have their polyps ripped off. Softies are boring IMO and are quite coroless, need less than MH lighting, and will probably be burnt under most MH conditions.

I suggest, looking at the picture forums, finding out what kind of tank YOU enjoy and make a gameplan and placement map so you can get the tank YOU envision.

[starseed]

Clams Placement (rock/sand): I was wondering that, in my quick read I did notice that Derasa Clams go in the sand, of which I have none. My "Clam Shelf" is a very large flat piece of LR about half way up and directly under the MH, very porous too. I also read that it is the Maximas and Croceas that go on rock and burn/burrow into it. That really would work for my Clam Shelf.

A Derasa is an easy choice on the "beginner clam" level - they are not my favorite because of the brown, but I have seen some very beautiful ones too. But if they need sand then they may not be.

I still need to know how far apart clams should be placed - on my clam self I have room for 1-3 depending on how much space they need between - they would be placed perpendicular to one another.

Corals: I have a lot of research and decision making to do. The Picture Forum is a great suggestion. So Softies, LPSs and SPSs compete with each other and sting each other - "thinking".

Placement Q: Then these 3 types of coral should be grouped together with clearance between each for growth and so they don't sting each other.

Chemical Warfare Q: Which of these 3 types react to the others with chemical warfare? My tank only has 60 gallons water volume, a chemical war would not look good. And... Out of the 3 different types, what specific species are more likely to react to the others in this way.

Softies: yes, brown and boring - I have 6 mushroom species and 2 polyp species - I like them and they taught me well, but I would like some color. I did notice a few react to the new HM (I added the MHs in December and have been letting everything cycle) so I have moved them to the sides and low light areas.

LPS: I like them, but need more research to start making a species list.

SPS: Yes, very pretty and I would like a few in a featured spot.

Anemone: I think this is going to me a no go for several reasons. 1) I would have to dedicate one MH to it (taking away from an SPS or Clam spot 2) If I create a clam shelf and end up with 3 beautiful clams and the anemone decided to wander and kill them - I don't want to think about that. 3) if SPSs and LPS like to fight each other then I don't need a 3rd aggressive species adding to the situation.... I have more reasons, but I think that's plenty. Tossing an anemone into the mix doesn't seem like a good beginner move.

One of the biggest aspects of this hobby is controlling the ego (I want what I want when I want it). That's why this forum is go great - ego check please!

[starseed]

Oh... And THANK YOU to everyone who has or will post their feedback... It's worth it's weight in gold!

[dots]

I would suggest picking one species, ie anenome, clam, lps, sps, softie and moving up from there. All can be extremly tempermental and require specific care and conditions for each. It would be unwise IMO to go a buy a bunch all at once to get the instant gradification of a completed tank.

For instance, I have gotten the things that I want to have first after careful consideration of specific needs. After that I will fill in the middle with "buffer" corals or space to keep everyone happy. I do believe that you are at the stage that is most important in the hobby, when you get to let your ego fly and you get to do what you want as an expression of you vision of an ideal tank. After spending all the time, energy, and money on a box of water, you had better be looking at what you want in the end.

[dots]

As far as your questions, a mixed garden tank is hard to achieve succuessfully without some comprimises, I myself may not be able to keep acroporas because of their sensitivity. My Sebae does take up one MH and a lot of realestate in the tank (about 18" round) but I think it is worth it. Yes, I am trying to seperate the LPS and SPS I plan to get in different zones. If you look at my tank below you will notice LPS on the edges, the anenome in a "rock corrall" by itself, the clam under the other MH with xenia at the top in back. If you notice the center to center left area is bare, that is a high flow/high light area that I plan to add some "easier" SPS. Having a gameplan such as this will aid in your success in keeping a mixed tank, but remember that it is a crapshoot and nothing is garunteed and is still experimental. There is a good chance that I won't have great success with everything unless I watch what I am doing........Some say mixed garden reefs in smaller tanks are doomed to fail. FYI

[starseed]

OK here is an update -

1) NO anemone! It wouldn't work with clams and corals

2) I took sacramentodots's advice and picked a second species.

I already have several green mushrooms, brown polyps, orange mushrooms, and zoos. SOFTIES.

The Second New Species is will be clams - I added one Croceas mid-point directly under on MH. CLAMS.

So I have created a rock wall on the Right Side of my tank.

Three CLAMS will be feature in the center of the wall, directly under the MH. My SOFTIES are places around the outer edges of the rock wall.

CLAMS


Bad Photo of my Blue, Green, and Gold Crocea


SOFTIES


So far the clam looks good, but there is a small cycle going on because I added two pieces of Live Rock that didn't fully cure - didn't notice till after I added it - there is a very small Cyno outbreak as a result - I have been doing 2 -20% water changes a week and daily 1 gallon changes. I'm sure the mini-cycle must be stressing him a little - I'll test today and post my parameters.

His reaction to shadows is very good. His "feeders" look 95% good and I can see green collect on his feeder filters when I feed the green DT, but there is a very very small (like three feeder filters on the right that are dark). Other than that, everything looks good. He has managed to lower my cal from 450 to 440 which is good.

Please notice that this right rock wall is completely separate from the other side of my tank (more on that later).

My main questions in this post are:

1) How is the placement and compatibility of Clams and Softies sharing a side of my tank together?
2) What are the safest softies to place between or near the clams?
3) What Kind of polyp or softy can I get to attach and cover my overflow box (the over flow if pretty separate from the rock near it - but could be close to the clams too).

I have to post two other questions (w/ photos) about my bare bottom / water flow and detritus flow near the clams later too.

[starseed]

Test results are in

OK - there is a cycle going on - causes:

1) the 2 peices of live rock are the most likely cause
2) Adding 20ccs of DT every other day

Here are the numbers:

Ammonia - .25 (HIGH)
Nitrite - 0
Nitate - .03
Phosphate - .05
Alk - 5.8 KH (LOW - despite increasing B-Ionice from 15ccs to 20ccs)
Cal - 450 (back up probably because of the 5cc increase in B-Ionic)

I'm worried about the clam the most.

I plan to add an ammonia filter pad to my overflow and continue 20% water changes 2 weekly in addition to the 1 gallon daily changes. I'm also cutting feeding in half and the DT too. I already vacume out poop in the morning and then again with the 1 gallon water change each day.

Any suggestions please?

Also, commects on my Softy/Clam wall/mix please?

[starseed]

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