Live Sand - How lively should it be?

[symont]

Hello,

During my freshwater years, biological filtration meant putting a bottle of liquid bacterial additive in the tank that (hopefully) settled in the gravel and the canister filter.

I now plan to start a 48 gal. (long) reef tank with DSB and 50 lbs of LR. Very few fishes, some coral but mostly inverts. Not sure about a sump yet but I will have plenty of water flow, a good skimmer and will only put RO/DI water. I read a lot on this forum but I cannot figure how "lively" the sand must be to have an effective DSB.

- Is putting a bottle of liquid bacterias in 3 to 4" of CaribSea Aragonite sugar of Agoramax is the same as going with two third of CaribSea Aragonite and one third of CaribSea Arag-Alive? In both cases, I understand that it will take time before all the sand gets populated.

- Will it only become an effective DSB if I then add some kind of Live Sand "activator" kit (detritivores/micro-inverts/amphipods) or is this just a diversity bonus?

- Most stores also sell jar of "virtuous" mud. Is it another requirement for a DBS or simply a rejuvination cure in one or two years?

If I may abuse of your time, I also read that hermits and cucumbers will eat the detritivores and micro-invert in the sand. Is this just a question of equilibrium or say 10 hermits will eat everything moving in 90lbs of sand in just two days. Put in another way, is it useless to add those sand critters if I want at least some hermits (wife's requirement for approval of the project!!!)?

Thanks,
Sylvain

[Dudester]

Love your thread title - now that's how to get people to respond!

- Is putting a bottle of liquid bacterias in 3 to 4" of CaribSea Aragonite sugar of Agoramax is the same as going with two third of CaribSea Aragonite and one third of CaribSea Arag-Alive?

I don't know if these will have an identical result in the short-term, but in the long-term it will work out the same. Another option you didn't mention is to go with the CaribSea Aragonite sand and get a cup of a friend's sand from his/her tank or from your LFS and populate your sand bed with that. In a few weeks your sand bed will be quite "lively."

- Will it only become an effective DSB if I then add some kind of Live Sand "activator" kit (detritivores/micro-inverts/amphipods) or is this just a diversity bonus?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe AragAlive sand contains micro-inverts and pods. At any rate, even if you go with the method I suggested, your LR will contain pods and such, and they'll eventually populate your sand as well. Just take your time before adding any other livestock and once your cycle has completed, your sand will be ready. Then, of course, that challenge will be to stock slowly.

HTH

[Amphiprion]

Unfortunately, Aragalive does not contain infauna, so you will need "real" live sand for long term results/benefits. See if your LFS carries some good quality live sand. I also heard that Billsreef.com sells some of the best live sand. Has a huge amount of diversity per cubic unit of sand as compared to others. The "detritivore kits" are good and are beneficial (as well as a diversity bonus), but do not take the place of a good re-inocculation of live sand. Basically, hte more diversity, the better off you will be.

[BurntOutReefer]

yet to buy "LIve-Sand" thats live...... :-(

[rustybucket145]

I second the concept of getting a cup full of sand out of an established, healthy (not algae overrun) tank. Most people will be glad to lend you a cup of sand. In this cup you will get all the 'critters' you need as well as any micro bacteria.

[MCary]

Agra-alive and bottled bacteria are very useful. They identify the amount of "suckers" available to sell other useless additives to. Bacteria and bacterial spores are everywhere. In the water, on the surface of your new tank, and floating in the air. Whenever anything gets wet bacteria begins to grow. Provided no chlorine of course. When the nitrifying bacteria sense the presence of nitrogen (ammonia and nitrite) they come out of a dormant state and begin to multiply. 1 bacteria can become 1 milion in 18-24 hours. Pouring in bacterial additives before there is any ammonia to feed on is a waste and putting it in after saves about 20 minutes of cycle time.

Now LR and real live sand can hurry a cycle because besides the billions of bacteria already colonized in the substrate it also has a store of food (decaying organic material)

Or I could be completely wrong. Although I am a bacteriologist.

Mike

[symont]

Wow, thank you all for these answers. As any subject in this forum, there is no unique answer. But you sure did help me finding my way. I will look for a good seed source and go from there.

Happy reefing,
Sylvain

[Alaskan Reefer]

I've never purchased any sort of live sand and I never will. Good live rock (meaning diversity already inside) and dry sand does the same thing, just take a little bit longer for the microflora and microfauna to multiply without the head start. Big deal. Plus, I will never stroll into a LFS and watch someone dig a cupful of sand out of a tank with no idea as to how long it's been there, how deep they're digging, how deep they dug for the last guy, and so on -- why take the risk?

That's so funny, by the way -- Arag Alive is useful because it identifies the suckers. You know, the ones that will come back for Purple Up.

LOL

[symont]

Good point Alaskan. Like I said, there is no unique answer and this is why I am seeking opinions. I understand that good LR will seed the sand with bacterias. But does it also contain any kind of detritivores, micro-inverts and pods, for bio-diversity?

[bertoni]

LR contains some animals that will move into sand. There are certainly animals that don't live in LR that do live in sand. If you want real live sand, you'll need to buy some, but it's expensive. billsreef.com gets some good reviews. InlandAquatics.com and IPSF.com also sell detritivores and the like. I use products from both and like them.

If you want a live DSB, you should probably look at www.ronshimek.com for information on setting one up. None of the aquarium sand products are really very good for a DSB, as a word of warning.

I agree that the bottle bacteria products are money down the drain.

[symont]

Special thanks to Jonathan. The DBS article of Ron Shimek is very informative.

I will go with Oolitic Aragonite Sand and seed it first with a "Live Sand Activator" from ipsf.com and 50 lbs of LR. Over time, I could always add another detritivores seeding kit from someone else for diversity.

There is the direct link if anyone care to read the article:
http://www.ronshimek.com/Deep%20Sand%20Beds.htm

Sylvain

[Teremei]

Originally posted by Alaskan Reefer


That's so funny, by the way -- Arag Alive is useful because it identifies the suckers. You know, the ones that will come back for Purple Up.

LOL

Kinda harsh. There is nothing "sucker" about spending $20 on a bag of bacteria full aragonite to help kick start your DSB. And might I add, that I have been using purple up since I started. And there is a deffinate increase of corraline spreading when I'm using it, as opposed to when I'm not.