Polyfilter and PO4's

prezioso73 · 01/05/2006, 10:00 AM

I used to use polyfilter all the time.
But after reading a thread, I dunked some polyfilter in some RO
water then tested it for PO4's (phosphates)
The test came up blue.

I stopped using it and changed to those blue filter pads.

But, the polyfilter used to pick up so much more junk and was really cheap. Does anyone think the PO4's from the polyfilter will really do that much to cause hair algae to grow?

PygmyAngel · 01/06/2006, 11:32 AM

What did you read about polyfilter and PO4s? I would search for the thread myself but the Search is always disabled (for me anyway)....I'm just curious as I use Poly filters all the time as well.
But I DO have a huge hair algae problem, so I am wondering if that is a direct correlation too...

prezioso73 · 01/06/2006, 11:49 AM

I have a HA problem too...
So I started testing everything for phosphates. ANd I read here that if you rinse polyfilter with ro water, the test would come up positive for phosphates. Sure enough, it did. I use a salifert test kit.

I stoped using the polyfilter like 2 months ago. But my hair algae problem still persists.

PygmyAngel · 01/06/2006, 12:29 PM

Hmmmm...very interesting. One of my whole purposes of using polyfilters is to pull crap out of the tank for things just like phosphates, and here it seems I might be adding to the very problem I am trying to get rid of....

Out of curiosity, do you know/remember if that person tested the RO water alone for the phosphates as well, to make sure it wasn't already in the RO water first? I know it's RO water, but you never know....

Sigh...I don't know anymore. Was about to order some more polyfilters, and still have one to use at home. Don't know what to do.

PygmyAngel · 01/06/2006, 12:37 PM

...it even says on the front of the poly filter package that it "removes all forms of phosphates".

I'd like to know more about this and really find that thread you are talking about, because if it's true that it already has phosphates then i'll be peeved.....

rick rottet · 01/06/2006, 01:43 PM

Poly-Bio-Marine poly filters will remove phosphates.

The instructions also say if the poly filter is in a marine tank and stops working, to rinse them in fresh water.

I wonder (and I don't know for sure) if the freshwater rinse forces the absorbed "stuff" to diffuse out of the filter and into the RO water. Then you would measure phosphates in the water.

reverendmaynard · 01/06/2006, 02:46 PM

Like anything else that absorbs, it will eventually reach a point of saturation. Leaving it in the tank past the point of saturation leads to leeching it back in to the tank. If you have high phosphates and are trying to reduce them, you should probably change whatever media you use to try to get it out very often (everyday, til it gets under control or proves to not be working.)

Also, there could very well be something to the fresh water theory. Have you tried it with fresh mixed, but properly aged and heated, saltwater?

PygmyAngel · 01/06/2006, 03:00 PM

but it was my understanding that prezioso73 was saying above that BEFORE it's even used, the new poly filter was being dunked in fresh RO water (before sticking in a tank or anything) and then the water was tested for phosphates and it came out blue.

Is that correct? Unless I am misunderstanding.....

Now, as for using it first, then seeing if it leaches phosphates, well yeah I would expect that, because it would have supposedly pulled them from the tank water like supposed to.

I thought the whole issue here was that the poly filter seemed to have phosphates from the very beginning or something, and that's why prez. was asking about it, and stated that he/she stopped using the poly filters for that reason.

Right?

rick rottet · 01/06/2006, 03:32 PM

I read back through the posts and I don't see that prezioso73 specifcally stated if the poly filter was new or used. I guess I pictured in my mind when prez. said "rinsed", that it was being rinsed after use.

If the filter is testing for PO4 when new, that would be something to contact the company about.

PygmyAngel · 01/07/2006, 01:58 AM

oh yeah, guess I assumed what I thought was the obvious issue to me....guess I better get clarification before I get even more confused....

Prez, did you mean you checked for phosphates before using it, or after using it in the tank, then rinsed in RO water, tested, and found phosphates?

Please clarify.

Thanks.

prezioso73 · 01/08/2006, 08:59 AM

This is what I meant.

I am talking about any poly-filter. Like the white cotton stuff. Forever I used polyfloss (like stuffing) in my filter. Someone else sugggested that it had phosphates in it...before it touches the tank.

So this is what I did (someone else suggested)
I tested my Ro water first...It was 0 phosphates.
Then I took some floss right from the bag, dipped it in ro wter then tested the water...It came up blue(positive) every time. I used a Salifert test kit.

Lately, I have been rinsing it out in ro water adn still using it in my tank. I think the benefits outweigh the risk. I loved using floss before I heard about this...now everytime I change the floss, I worry about it.

I hate hair algae!

PygmyAngel · 01/08/2006, 02:46 PM

Okay, then we ARE talking about 2 completely DIFFERENT things....sorry. Glad I asked.

I am talking about the actual product called the Poly Filter....
So, never mind.

But that's good to know about the floss....

prezioso73 · 01/09/2006, 06:34 AM

I would still check it.
I found that any polyester type filter material that I test comes up positive for PO4's

Even if they have little fishies on the bag

inwall75 · 01/09/2006, 07:01 AM

The plasticizers used to make many forms of polyester filter fluff contains phosphates as part of the manufacturing process. You can remove the majority of these phosphates by soaking in RO/DI water for 24 hours prior to putting it in your tank. The same thing goes for granular activated carbon plus you get the advantage of prewetting it which makes it work MUCH better.

Additionally, this is a very good thing to do if you are feeding frozen silversides, frozen mysis, frozen brine, etc. Simply thaw the food for an hour or so in RO/DI water as opposed to tank water. The RO/DI water is stripped and since water is the "Universal Solvent" it will act like a magnet and remove many of the phosphates. Then just use a fishnet to remove the food from the container and dump the water down the sink.

prezioso73 · 01/09/2006, 09:15 AM

Thanks!
I am going to do that!

chrisp074 · 01/10/2006, 11:09 AM

Just so you know, this is the polyfiter you should be using if you have a phosphate problem.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Produc...&N=2004+113810

-Chris

PygmyAngel · 01/10/2006, 11:56 PM

....That's the poly filter product that I was talking about....

alfa1023 · 01/11/2006, 06:33 PM

I too have been using the Poly Filter pads sold by Dr Foster and Smith. Is the belief that these pads also should be soaked for 24 hours in RO/DI water before use?

I have found these pads to do a great job of giving crisp clear water. But I do still have a trace of phosphate using these pads and now wonder if the source is the pads themselves?

chrisp074 · 01/12/2006, 07:15 AM

I don't recommend soaking the pads first but I've never tried it. As far as I know these absorb PO4, and does not release any when new. My understanding is that they were developed for kidney dialysis so I doubt they release anything.

-Chris

tripstank · 03/09/2006, 02:24 AM

That makes sense to me, recently I started using poly in my tank and I noticed cyanobacteria growth. I have never had a problem with it in the past because I use Ro water. But now, once I began using the Poly filter floss in my skimmer return, I have noticed growth... Ahh Hah! I think I have got it! Thanks guys!

DJ88© · 03/09/2006, 07:54 AM

This thread has been moved to the current forum.

01/05/2006, 10:00 AM	#1
prezioso73 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Hubbard, Ohio Posts: 435	Polyfilter and PO4's I used to use polyfilter all the time. But after reading a thread, I dunked some polyfilter in some RO water then tested it for PO4's (phosphates) The test came up blue. I stopped using it and changed to those blue filter pads. But, the polyfilter used to pick up so much more junk and was really cheap. Does anyone think the PO4's from the polyfilter will really do that much to cause hair algae to grow? __________________ Poseidon pump...quiet. Current Tank Info: 55 gallon tank, 55 Gal sump, 25 gal. fuge, ASM G2 Skimmer, 100lbs LR, MH lighting, "No noise" Poseidon pump, soft/hard corals; 12 Gal Nanno

01/06/2006, 11:32 AM	#2
PygmyAngel Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Seabrook, TX Posts: 233	What did you read about polyfilter and PO4s? I would search for the thread myself but the Search is always disabled (for me anyway)....I'm just curious as I use Poly filters all the time as well. But I DO have a huge hair algae problem, so I am wondering if that is a direct correlation too... __________________ "We conserve only what we love; we love only what we understand; we understand only what we have been taught." - B. Dioum Current Tank Info: 75g: LS/LR, Prizm Skimmer, hang on Emp filter. No ref/no sump. 4-VHO/1-MH. 20g Reef: hang on Emp, skimmer, pc lights.

01/06/2006, 11:49 AM	#3
prezioso73 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Hubbard, Ohio Posts: 435	I have a HA problem too... So I started testing everything for phosphates. ANd I read here that if you rinse polyfilter with ro water, the test would come up positive for phosphates. Sure enough, it did. I use a salifert test kit. I stoped using the polyfilter like 2 months ago. But my hair algae problem still persists. __________________ Poseidon pump...quiet. Current Tank Info: 55 gallon tank, 55 Gal sump, 25 gal. fuge, ASM G2 Skimmer, 100lbs LR, MH lighting, "No noise" Poseidon pump, soft/hard corals; 12 Gal Nanno

01/06/2006, 12:29 PM	#4
PygmyAngel Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Seabrook, TX Posts: 233	Hmmmm...very interesting. One of my whole purposes of using polyfilters is to pull crap out of the tank for things just like phosphates, and here it seems I might be adding to the very problem I am trying to get rid of.... Out of curiosity, do you know/remember if that person tested the RO water alone for the phosphates as well, to make sure it wasn't already in the RO water first? I know it's RO water, but you never know.... Sigh...I don't know anymore. Was about to order some more polyfilters, and still have one to use at home. Don't know what to do. __________________ "We conserve only what we love; we love only what we understand; we understand only what we have been taught." - B. Dioum Current Tank Info: 75g: LS/LR, Prizm Skimmer, hang on Emp filter. No ref/no sump. 4-VHO/1-MH. 20g Reef: hang on Emp, skimmer, pc lights.

01/06/2006, 12:37 PM	#5
PygmyAngel Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Seabrook, TX Posts: 233	...it even says on the front of the poly filter package that it "removes all forms of phosphates". I'd like to know more about this and really find that thread you are talking about, because if it's true that it already has phosphates then i'll be peeved..... __________________ "We conserve only what we love; we love only what we understand; we understand only what we have been taught." - B. Dioum Current Tank Info: 75g: LS/LR, Prizm Skimmer, hang on Emp filter. No ref/no sump. 4-VHO/1-MH. 20g Reef: hang on Emp, skimmer, pc lights.

01/06/2006, 01:43 PM	#6
rick rottet reefkeeper// propagator Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: illinois Posts: 1,440	Poly-Bio-Marine poly filters will remove phosphates. The instructions also say if the poly filter is in a marine tank and stops working, to rinse them in fresh water. I wonder (and I don't know for sure) if the freshwater rinse forces the absorbed "stuff" to diffuse out of the filter and into the RO water. Then you would measure phosphates in the water. __________________ Beware the hobby that eats- Benjamin Franklin Current Tank Info: 4 x 210 gallon prop system

01/06/2006, 02:46 PM	#7
reverendmaynard Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: RI Posts: 1,490	Like anything else that absorbs, it will eventually reach a point of saturation. Leaving it in the tank past the point of saturation leads to leeching it back in to the tank. If you have high phosphates and are trying to reduce them, you should probably change whatever media you use to try to get it out very often (everyday, til it gets under control or proves to not be working.) Also, there could very well be something to the fresh water theory. Have you tried it with fresh mixed, but properly aged and heated, saltwater?

01/06/2006, 03:00 PM	#8
PygmyAngel Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Seabrook, TX Posts: 233	but it was my understanding that prezioso73 was saying above that BEFORE it's even used, the new poly filter was being dunked in fresh RO water (before sticking in a tank or anything) and then the water was tested for phosphates and it came out blue. Is that correct? Unless I am misunderstanding..... Now, as for using it first, then seeing if it leaches phosphates, well yeah I would expect that, because it would have supposedly pulled them from the tank water like supposed to. I thought the whole issue here was that the poly filter seemed to have phosphates from the very beginning or something, and that's why prez. was asking about it, and stated that he/she stopped using the poly filters for that reason. Right? __________________ "We conserve only what we love; we love only what we understand; we understand only what we have been taught." - B. Dioum Current Tank Info: 75g: LS/LR, Prizm Skimmer, hang on Emp filter. No ref/no sump. 4-VHO/1-MH. 20g Reef: hang on Emp, skimmer, pc lights.

01/06/2006, 03:32 PM	#9
rick rottet reefkeeper// propagator Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: illinois Posts: 1,440	I read back through the posts and I don't see that prezioso73 specifcally stated if the poly filter was new or used. I guess I pictured in my mind when prez. said "rinsed", that it was being rinsed after use. If the filter is testing for PO4 when new, that would be something to contact the company about. __________________ Beware the hobby that eats- Benjamin Franklin Current Tank Info: 4 x 210 gallon prop system

01/07/2006, 01:58 AM	#10
PygmyAngel Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Seabrook, TX Posts: 233	oh yeah, guess I assumed what I thought was the obvious issue to me....guess I better get clarification before I get even more confused.... Prez, did you mean you checked for phosphates before using it, or after using it in the tank, then rinsed in RO water, tested, and found phosphates? Please clarify. Thanks. __________________ "We conserve only what we love; we love only what we understand; we understand only what we have been taught." - B. Dioum Current Tank Info: 75g: LS/LR, Prizm Skimmer, hang on Emp filter. No ref/no sump. 4-VHO/1-MH. 20g Reef: hang on Emp, skimmer, pc lights.

01/08/2006, 08:59 AM	#11
prezioso73 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Hubbard, Ohio Posts: 435	This is what I meant. I am talking about any poly-filter. Like the white cotton stuff. Forever I used polyfloss (like stuffing) in my filter. Someone else sugggested that it had phosphates in it...before it touches the tank. So this is what I did (someone else suggested) I tested my Ro water first...It was 0 phosphates. Then I took some floss right from the bag, dipped it in ro wter then tested the water...It came up blue(positive) every time. I used a Salifert test kit. Lately, I have been rinsing it out in ro water adn still using it in my tank. I think the benefits outweigh the risk. I loved using floss before I heard about this...now everytime I change the floss, I worry about it. I hate hair algae! __________________ Poseidon pump...quiet. Current Tank Info: 55 gallon tank, 55 Gal sump, 25 gal. fuge, ASM G2 Skimmer, 100lbs LR, MH lighting, "No noise" Poseidon pump, soft/hard corals; 12 Gal Nanno

01/08/2006, 02:46 PM	#12
PygmyAngel Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Seabrook, TX Posts: 233	Okay, then we ARE talking about 2 completely DIFFERENT things....sorry. Glad I asked. I am talking about the actual product called the Poly Filter.... So, never mind. But that's good to know about the floss.... __________________ "We conserve only what we love; we love only what we understand; we understand only what we have been taught." - B. Dioum Current Tank Info: 75g: LS/LR, Prizm Skimmer, hang on Emp filter. No ref/no sump. 4-VHO/1-MH. 20g Reef: hang on Emp, skimmer, pc lights.

01/09/2006, 06:34 AM	#13
prezioso73 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Hubbard, Ohio Posts: 435	I would still check it. I found that any polyester type filter material that I test comes up positive for PO4's Even if they have little fishies on the bag __________________ Poseidon pump...quiet. Current Tank Info: 55 gallon tank, 55 Gal sump, 25 gal. fuge, ASM G2 Skimmer, 100lbs LR, MH lighting, "No noise" Poseidon pump, soft/hard corals; 12 Gal Nanno

01/09/2006, 07:01 AM	#14
inwall75 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 1,877	The plasticizers used to make many forms of polyester filter fluff contains phosphates as part of the manufacturing process. You can remove the majority of these phosphates by soaking in RO/DI water for 24 hours prior to putting it in your tank. The same thing goes for granular activated carbon plus you get the advantage of prewetting it which makes it work MUCH better. Additionally, this is a very good thing to do if you are feeding frozen silversides, frozen mysis, frozen brine, etc. Simply thaw the food for an hour or so in RO/DI water as opposed to tank water. The RO/DI water is stripped and since water is the "Universal Solvent" it will act like a magnet and remove many of the phosphates. Then just use a fishnet to remove the food from the container and dump the water down the sink. __________________ Curt If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate. Current Tank Info: 7.5g nano, 75g Inwall, 18g nano, 12g nano, 200g prop tank

01/09/2006, 09:15 AM	#15
prezioso73 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Hubbard, Ohio Posts: 435	Thanks! I am going to do that! __________________ Poseidon pump...quiet. Current Tank Info: 55 gallon tank, 55 Gal sump, 25 gal. fuge, ASM G2 Skimmer, 100lbs LR, MH lighting, "No noise" Poseidon pump, soft/hard corals; 12 Gal Nanno

01/10/2006, 11:09 AM	#16
chrisp074 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Aurora Il Posts: 351	Just so you know, this is the polyfiter you should be using if you have a phosphate problem. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Produc...&N=2004+113810 -Chris

01/10/2006, 11:56 PM	#17
PygmyAngel Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Seabrook, TX Posts: 233	....That's the poly filter product that I was talking about.... __________________ "We conserve only what we love; we love only what we understand; we understand only what we have been taught." - B. Dioum Current Tank Info: 75g: LS/LR, Prizm Skimmer, hang on Emp filter. No ref/no sump. 4-VHO/1-MH. 20g Reef: hang on Emp, skimmer, pc lights.

01/11/2006, 06:33 PM	#18
alfa1023 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Palm Harbor, FL Posts: 348	I too have been using the Poly Filter pads sold by Dr Foster and Smith. Is the belief that these pads also should be soaked for 24 hours in RO/DI water before use? I have found these pads to do a great job of giving crisp clear water. But I do still have a trace of phosphate using these pads and now wonder if the source is the pads themselves?

01/12/2006, 07:15 AM	#19
chrisp074 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Aurora Il Posts: 351	I don't recommend soaking the pads first but I've never tried it. As far as I know these absorb PO4, and does not release any when new. My understanding is that they were developed for kidney dialysis so I doubt they release anything. -Chris

03/09/2006, 02:24 AM	#20
tripstank Registered Member. Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 488	That makes sense to me, recently I started using poly in my tank and I noticed cyanobacteria growth. I have never had a problem with it in the past because I use Ro water. But now, once I began using the Poly filter floss in my skimmer return, I have noticed growth... Ahh Hah! I think I have got it! Thanks guys! __________________ Not to point fingers, but.................... Current Tank Info: Coral Prop troughs

03/09/2006, 07:54 AM	#21
DJ88© Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: BC. Canada. Posts: 14,351	This thread has been moved to the current forum. __________________ Darren Beauty fades.... Stupid is forever...... Current Tank Info: 34 Gal Solana with some lights.. and pumps that make water move. And fish...