new tank rock curing

Jimsreef · 03/06/2006, 06:48 PM

I bought an 88 lb box of uncured kaelini and its been in the tank now for 4 days. Can i add another box of uncured fiji to this or is it too late? It will take 2 or 3 days more to get the box of fiji here. Jim

artful-dodger · 03/06/2006, 07:22 PM

No, go for it!!! Far, far better to add it after a week than to try to do it after the first batch is fully cured and you're wanting to add fish!

Jimsreef · 03/06/2006, 07:25 PM

Just what I wanted to hear. I have another question. When is is safe to add inverts and which ones do I need to add?

Alaskan Reefer · 03/07/2006, 05:28 AM

I'd say after your cycle is complete for all rock added on inverts -- no need to try and acclimate them to ammonia or nitrite. Good place to start would be some peppermint shrimp, cleaner shrimp, and a few turbo snails. If you have a sand substrate, plenty of cerith snails and a few nassarius are good to have as well. I personally no longer use hermits or emerald crabs, snails do the same thing if you get a good variety -- and snails won't fight or eat snails. Don't get too crazy adding too much rock (maybe you have room in your sump), you want room left for corals!

Jimsreef · 03/07/2006, 05:54 AM

Can someone explain how the cycle works, nitrites, nitrates and such? This is my first time curing my own rock. How often and when should I do water changes? Jim

artful-dodger · 03/07/2006, 08:54 AM

water changes are not key to the cycle and can even retard it.

The basics of the cycle are that various waste products (fish excrement, decaying excess food, sponge dieoff from rocks, etc.) produce ammonia. As you start to cure your rock, you may have to add a source of ammonia to get things started. The simplest method is to just toss a single shrimp or scallop (from the meat/fish counter at the market) Bacteria (in/on the rock and other surfaces) eventually reproduce to sufficiently handle the ammonia, turning it into nitrites. (Both of these nitrogen compounds are toxic to most invertebrates and many fish.)

Once there is enough nitrite to support them, a second type of bacteria that converts nitrite to nitrate will also cultivate on the rock and sand. Nitrates are tolerated pretty well by many fish but not by corals or many other inverts. Eventually the nitrates will be used as food by algae (micro, macro or zoolxanthellic) and potentially controlled through water changes.

So, you need to monitor this cycle. Initially you will see a spike in ammonia. As it drops off you will see a peak in nitrites. Eventually the nitrites will diminish as nitrates are produced. Don't add any life until the nitrites and ammonia are back down to zero. Add hardy livestock (slowly!) until nitrates have stabilized at a low level.

I'd also suggest that you pick up one of the many good books covering this and many other fundamental topics to ensure success in this hobby. (Besides, it will help fill the time while the tank is cycling

) One of the best investments, in my mind, would be The Conscientious Marine Aquarist by Bob Fenner. The money you spend will be repaid on the very first coral or exotic fish that survives because of your better knowledge. Here's my take on several other books to consider...some are not appropriate overviews for people getting started.

Jimsreef · 03/07/2006, 08:16 PM

How high should the ammonia get I bought uncured rock and I could see stuff that was dead or dying when I got it. I have tested for ammonia and I believe it was at 1.0 once I did a water change and the next day I tested and the color chart was close to 1.0. Do I still need to put a piece of shrimp in there? Jim

fish are life · 03/07/2006, 08:39 PM

just so you know we did this at work to a couple tanks and the sand and rick will get unusually brown, dont panic and DONT REMOVE IT.

artful-dodger · 03/07/2006, 08:57 PM

as long as you're reading ammonia you're okay. 1 ppm isn't a lot for a new rock cycle, though. adding a bit of food to decay won't hurt anything, though. monitor the ammonia and it will eventually drop to zero (and should stay there!) Afterwards the nitrites will drop to zero as well. Be patient--it may take a few weeks (and may pretty smell bad for a few days)

Jimsreef · 03/08/2006, 03:57 PM

I tested my ammonia and it is at 1.5 right now. I'm on day seven of curing the kaelini and I have a box of fiji coming tomorrow. I did a 25% water change on day 3. Should I do another water change before I get the new box of uncured fiji tomorrow or wait till after the fiji has been in the water a while? Jim

deansreef · 03/08/2006, 04:00 PM

any pics of the rock

Jimsreef · 03/08/2006, 07:43 PM

Here is a pic of my tonga kaelini

Jimsreef · 03/08/2006, 07:44 PM

Jimsreef · 03/08/2006, 07:51 PM

Jimsreef · 03/09/2006, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jimsreef
I tested my ammonia and it is at 1.5 right now. I'm on day seven of curing the kaelini and I have a box of fiji coming tomorrow. I did a 25% water change on day 3. Should I do another water change before I get the new box of uncured fiji tomorrow or wait till after the fiji has been in the water a while? Jim

Anyone know if I shoud do another water change before I add the fiji rock. Jim

artful-dodger · 03/09/2006, 07:57 AM

I'd avoid the water change at this point--there will be plenty of them to come when you have livestock to protect. Top it off to keep salinity in line and let nature do her thing.

03/06/2006, 06:48 PM	#1
Jimsreef Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Grayson Kentucky Posts: 838	new tank rock curing I bought an 88 lb box of uncured kaelini and its been in the tank now for 4 days. Can i add another box of uncured fiji to this or is it too late? It will take 2 or 3 days more to get the box of fiji here. Jim __________________ 180 gallon tank Current Tank Info: 75 gallon

03/06/2006, 07:22 PM	#2
artful-dodger Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Highlands Ranch, Colorado Posts: 3,011	No, go for it!!! Far, far better to add it after a week than to try to do it after the first batch is fully cured and you're wanting to add fish! __________________ "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." -- Thomas Jefferson Current Tank Info: 140g RR Oceanic "Ultimate" mixed reef, 37g softies, 40g RBTA tank, 65g FOWLR, 40g breeder frag, and (of course) a 29g QT! ...next up is a 240g! (Gotta go to K-Mart and buy a life...)

03/06/2006, 07:25 PM	#3
Jimsreef Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Grayson Kentucky Posts: 838	Just what I wanted to hear. I have another question. When is is safe to add inverts and which ones do I need to add? __________________ 180 gallon tank Current Tank Info: 75 gallon

03/07/2006, 05:28 AM	#4
Alaskan Reefer Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Eagle River, Alaska Posts: 2,360	I'd say after your cycle is complete for all rock added on inverts -- no need to try and acclimate them to ammonia or nitrite. Good place to start would be some peppermint shrimp, cleaner shrimp, and a few turbo snails. If you have a sand substrate, plenty of cerith snails and a few nassarius are good to have as well. I personally no longer use hermits or emerald crabs, snails do the same thing if you get a good variety -- and snails won't fight or eat snails. Don't get too crazy adding too much rock (maybe you have room in your sump), you want room left for corals! __________________ Unattended children will be given double shot espresso and a free puppy. Current Tank Info: 125g FOWLR -- Conversion Back To SPS In Progress

03/07/2006, 05:54 AM	#5
Jimsreef Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Grayson Kentucky Posts: 838	Can someone explain how the cycle works, nitrites, nitrates and such? This is my first time curing my own rock. How often and when should I do water changes? Jim __________________ 180 gallon tank Current Tank Info: 75 gallon

03/07/2006, 08:54 AM	#6
artful-dodger Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Highlands Ranch, Colorado Posts: 3,011	water changes are not key to the cycle and can even retard it. The basics of the cycle are that various waste products (fish excrement, decaying excess food, sponge dieoff from rocks, etc.) produce ammonia. As you start to cure your rock, you may have to add a source of ammonia to get things started. The simplest method is to just toss a single shrimp or scallop (from the meat/fish counter at the market) Bacteria (in/on the rock and other surfaces) eventually reproduce to sufficiently handle the ammonia, turning it into nitrites. (Both of these nitrogen compounds are toxic to most invertebrates and many fish.) Once there is enough nitrite to support them, a second type of bacteria that converts nitrite to nitrate will also cultivate on the rock and sand. Nitrates are tolerated pretty well by many fish but not by corals or many other inverts. Eventually the nitrates will be used as food by algae (micro, macro or zoolxanthellic) and potentially controlled through water changes. So, you need to monitor this cycle. Initially you will see a spike in ammonia. As it drops off you will see a peak in nitrites. Eventually the nitrites will diminish as nitrates are produced. Don't add any life until the nitrites and ammonia are back down to zero. Add hardy livestock (slowly!) until nitrates have stabilized at a low level. I'd also suggest that you pick up one of the many good books covering this and many other fundamental topics to ensure success in this hobby. (Besides, it will help fill the time while the tank is cycling ) One of the best investments, in my mind, would be The Conscientious Marine Aquarist by Bob Fenner. The money you spend will be repaid on the very first coral or exotic fish that survives because of your better knowledge. Here's my take on several other books to consider...some are not appropriate overviews for people getting started. __________________ "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." -- Thomas Jefferson Current Tank Info: 140g RR Oceanic "Ultimate" mixed reef, 37g softies, 40g RBTA tank, 65g FOWLR, 40g breeder frag, and (of course) a 29g QT! ...next up is a 240g! (Gotta go to K-Mart and buy a life...)

03/07/2006, 08:16 PM	#7
Jimsreef Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Grayson Kentucky Posts: 838	How high should the ammonia get I bought uncured rock and I could see stuff that was dead or dying when I got it. I have tested for ammonia and I believe it was at 1.0 once I did a water change and the next day I tested and the color chart was close to 1.0. Do I still need to put a piece of shrimp in there? Jim __________________ 180 gallon tank Current Tank Info: 75 gallon

03/07/2006, 08:39 PM	#8
fish are life Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: tucson AZ Posts: 171	just so you know we did this at work to a couple tanks and the sand and rick will get unusually brown, dont panic and DONT REMOVE IT.

03/07/2006, 08:57 PM	#9
artful-dodger Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Highlands Ranch, Colorado Posts: 3,011	as long as you're reading ammonia you're okay. 1 ppm isn't a lot for a new rock cycle, though. adding a bit of food to decay won't hurt anything, though. monitor the ammonia and it will eventually drop to zero (and should stay there!) Afterwards the nitrites will drop to zero as well. Be patient--it may take a few weeks (and may pretty smell bad for a few days) __________________ "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." -- Thomas Jefferson Current Tank Info: 140g RR Oceanic "Ultimate" mixed reef, 37g softies, 40g RBTA tank, 65g FOWLR, 40g breeder frag, and (of course) a 29g QT! ...next up is a 240g! (Gotta go to K-Mart and buy a life...)

03/08/2006, 03:57 PM	#10
Jimsreef Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Grayson Kentucky Posts: 838	I tested my ammonia and it is at 1.5 right now. I'm on day seven of curing the kaelini and I have a box of fiji coming tomorrow. I did a 25% water change on day 3. Should I do another water change before I get the new box of uncured fiji tomorrow or wait till after the fiji has been in the water a while? Jim __________________ 180 gallon tank Current Tank Info: 75 gallon

03/08/2006, 04:00 PM	#11
deansreef Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: north carolina Posts: 3,234	any pics of the rock __________________ the only dumb question, is the one not asked... Current Tank Info: 225 gallon peninsula

03/08/2006, 07:43 PM	#12
Jimsreef Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Grayson Kentucky Posts: 838	Here is a pic of my tonga kaelini __________________ 180 gallon tank Current Tank Info: 75 gallon

03/08/2006, 07:44 PM	#13
Jimsreef Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Grayson Kentucky Posts: 838	__________________ 180 gallon tank Current Tank Info: 75 gallon

03/08/2006, 07:51 PM	#14
Jimsreef Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Grayson Kentucky Posts: 838	__________________ 180 gallon tank Current Tank Info: 75 gallon

03/09/2006, 07:57 AM	#16
artful-dodger Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Highlands Ranch, Colorado Posts: 3,011	I'd avoid the water change at this point--there will be plenty of them to come when you have livestock to protect. Top it off to keep salinity in line and let nature do her thing. __________________ "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." -- Thomas Jefferson Current Tank Info: 140g RR Oceanic "Ultimate" mixed reef, 37g softies, 40g RBTA tank, 65g FOWLR, 40g breeder frag, and (of course) a 29g QT! ...next up is a 240g! (Gotta go to K-Mart and buy a life...)