my first batch of kalkwasser

[Pensky]

I just want to run done the process I understand just to verify I know what I'm doing.

I took a 5gal bucket and filled it with 4 1/2 gals of ro water and mixed 4 1/2 teaspoons of Mrs Wages and sealed the bucket with a lid. I will let it sit for a day and then I purchased an IV bag that would go on a stand and has one of the roll things on the tube to control the drip rate. Once the kalkwasser has sat for a day I plan to siphon out just the clear liquid in the middle and put that in to the 1/2 gal IV bag. Since the IV bag won't be exposed to CO2 I should have a problem there and I will try to set the flow rate to account for evaporation and just let it drip 24/7.

My question is how long will the 4 1/2 gals in the bucket last with a sealed lid and I do not plan to skim the top?

Will my plan work?

[Pensky]

This is the IV bag I was describing

• Large, Easy Cap® opening with roller clamp feed rate control
• 1000ml capacity bag has temperature control pouch graduated in 100ml increments
• Large print for easy viewing
• 7.5’ tubing with roller clamp below drip chamber to control feed rate
• Includes large diameter tubing and large mouth port with tab insert closure
Non-sterile

[Anemonebuff]

Just make sure you run some white vinegar through the bag every week or two to remove Klak deposits.

I store my kalkwasser for a week, give or take a day or two, in an airtight container.

[coogarts]

You typically don't want to mix any more than one week's worth of Kalkwasser. How large is your tank?

[The_Nexis_One]

yes it'll work. Kalk is one of the easiest things to do as you can do just about anything and still gain a benefit from it. Your plan sounds fine. The only things I would like to add is:

1) You will see an advantage to using a Kalk drip, so you might want to start thinking of how you can maximize your efforts - maybe have it drain the 5gal bucket directly into the sump via a drip (I pulled the connector out of my first IV bag and stuck it in a 2gal fridge water container since I was having to dose between 1 and 2 gals a night after only a couple of weeks).

2) Mixing a 5 gal bucket is just fine, the only draw back is that the less you fill the bucket (e.g. if you make 4 gal's not 5) the more air that is sealed in the bucket the more reaction will take place. Likewise, lets assume you fill the bucket to a given amount and seal it. The Kalk reacts with CO2 and you get a layer of scum on the surface and all the CO2 is used up from the static amount of air in the 5gal bucket. As soon as you open that bucket, new CO2 will enter and the solution will further react - lowering the potency of the kalk. I found that mixing smaller amounts in 1gal amounts allowed me to keep several 'jugs' of the stuff mixed and sealed until it was time to dose it that night.

3) a well built reactor (doesn't have to be expensive by any means) will solve both of these and make life much easier.

Now - with all that said. YES you are doing exactly the right thing. Kalk is a long road of trial and error, but the best part is that even the "error" part is usually very benefitial to your system. I guess what i'm trying to say is that about the only thing that can be done wrong with Kalk that would turn out negatively is overdosing it. And that is actually pretty hard to do. Most systems will accept a very wide variation in drip rates so don't stay up all night checking your pH

Best of luck and have fun... Kalk can be pretty rewarding as it makes keeping our corals much more enjoyable and less expensive.

Good Luck,
John.

[Pensky]

I have a 55 gal and I fiqure I would use at least 3 to 4 gals a week, but good point about multipule containers


Just want to double one thing about my stats.

Alk = 7dkh
Calc = 340ppm

this ok also right?

[jeffbrig]

Originally posted by The_Nexis_One
about the only thing that can be done wrong with Kalk that would turn out negatively is overdosing it. And that is actually pretty hard to do. Most systems will accept a very wide variation in drip rates so don't stay up all night checking your pH

I'd like to underscore this point. When I dose kalk, I mix a gallon jug and let it sit overnight. The next day, I pour the entire gallon into the sump over a period of about 5 minutes. This causes no ill effects to the tank. The short-term pH rise is maybe .15 on my pinpoint meter, which is not a signifciant swing. Obviously, for a smaller tank (mine is 250g), you shouldn't dump in a whole gallon at once, but a decent amount can be dosed rather quickly without causing problems.

[Craig Lambert]

Pensky,

Your water params are at the very low end of the acceptable range. ALK should be 7-11 dKH, and your calcium level should be above 400. (I'm guessing you are using IO salt)..Nothing wroing with that, but it is low in both calcium and magnesium. The Kalk drip will raise your ALK level, but I doubt it will do much to raise your calcium level. (Kalk is generally dripped to maintain the calcium level).

I would take the following action:

Test your Magnesium level in addition to ALK and Calcium.
Magnesium should be in a range of 1250-1350. (If it is lower than that, it will interfere with your attempts to raise calcium). Once you raise the magnesium level, you will want to do a one shot boost to raise your calcium level to the 425-430 area by dosing Calcium Chloride. (Kent's Turbo calcium works well). Once the proper levels are attained, then begin dripping Kalk, and it will maintain things. Just be aware that water changes may deplete the calcium and magnesium levels over time.

Here is a calculator that can help:

http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chem_calc3.html

[Pensky]

well I already made some kalk mix up would it be ok to go ahead and dose what I have and wait to make more until calc in undercontrol?

I will have to purchase a mag test but can I use liquid calc in the mean time along with kalk or would one be better than the other?

[Billybeau1]

Originally posted by jeffbrig
The short-term pH rise is maybe .15 on my pinpoint meter, which is not a signifciant swing. Obviously, for a smaller tank (mine is 250g), you shouldn't dump in a whole gallon at once, but a decent amount can be dosed rather quickly without causing problems.

Jeff, If you believe the experts, they say a PH swing of more than .06 at any one time can be stressful to fish. You may want to slow down that addition rate. Say a half gallon in the morning and a half gallon at night. Thats what I do anyway.

[Craig Lambert]

By all means...and it will aid in raising the Alk level a bit.

[Anemonebuff]

Dose, then test, then decide if you need more Ca.

[The_Nexis_One]

The comment about Kalk not raising Ca I think needs a little clarification. Kalkwasser is an ionicly balanced solution... Which means for every addition in "alk" there is an addition in "Ca". If your alk goes up, your Ca will go up... UNLESS you have something externally interfering with one or the other... such as a lack of magnesium (Ca), or a leaking jug of vinegar dripping into your tank (Alk), etc.

According to Randy Holmes-Farley: "one meq/L (2.8 dKH; 50 ppm CaCO3 equivalents) for every 20 ppm of calcium" for both Ca reactors and Kalk solution.

I'm trying to find the article I was thinking of - I think it's by Randy that shows how to balance the Alk/Ca in your tank before you start dosing Kalk to move the levels collectivly up. Anyone have the link? It had some nice graphs in the middle that you could plot your Alk/Ca and it would tell you what to dose, etc to get back in the balanced range before dosing Kalk.

Anyway... I can't find it right now - but the bottom line is, if you are out of balance, best to get it back level now and then start dosing Kalk. If they are close and/or in normal range, just dose the kalk.

John.

[Craig Lambert]

I think you are refering to an article entitled "balancing calcium and alkalinity in a reef tank" I could not find it, but I did find this post from Randy while looking for it:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do my cal levels not come up when I am useing kalkwasser, am I not dosing enough as I posted earlier.

Limewater and all other balanced calcium and alkalinity additive systems are just not suitable for raising calcium as they will push alkalinity (and in this case, pH) too high. Alkalinity will rise by 1 meq./L (2.8 dKH) for each 20 ppm rise in calcium. So a 50 ppm rise is just out of the question.

Calcium chloride is the way to raise calcium to normal levels, and then limewater can keep the calcium and alkalinity where they should be (barring water changes with low or high calcium mixes).


__________________
Randy Holmes-Farley
Want to talk chemistry? Try the Reef Chemistry Forum at Reef Central

[The_Nexis_One]

Hrmm, I guess I'm not following that.... If I dose every day, and my alk is being offset by photosynth & calcification and my Ca is being used only by calcification, wouldn't dosing over time raise the Ca also? This is at least what has happened in both of my systems, rather, both of my systems have 'gained' Ca as well as Alk through dosine Kalk (exclusively, even after any initial adjustments to Ca/Alk).

Now that said - I also agree that if your Ca is very low (out of balance) than dosing Kalk will not correct the issue, it will only run your Alk through the roof and leave your Ca average... (as both are raised at the same time). In my first system I dosed excessive amounts of Turbo Calc to get my Ca back in balance before I started kalk dripping (years and years ago), but mine was very much out of balance per that graph/article I was trying to find and it was recommended that I do so.

Anyway... I think we are both on the same page - I just wanted to clarify that both Alk and Ca are increased by adding Kalkwasser. (and by increased I mean added to the system, they may be consumed by something in short order to NOT show a net increase). I was concerned about him/others getting the wrong idea that their Ca will stay at "400ppm" if that's what it is at when they start their Kalk therapy.

Best of luck Pensky,
John.

[Pensky]

So I should just add liquid calcium until my calc. is around 400 then start dripping kalk.

Right?

[The_Nexis_One]

Personally, I think both your Alk and Ca are low - so dosing Kalk straight away should be fine. If after they come up a little, you think that your Ca is lacking or Alk for that matter, then bump it up seperately and continue dosing kalk.

This is why I was looking for those graphs - they tell you if you need to increase one or the other before starting Kalk dosing... great little reference, but my link to it is dead :-/

However, if you want to bump up your Ca first, that would be ok as well, it's hard to go wrong with dosing Kalk IMHO.


John.

[Craig Lambert]

Nexis_One, Pensky,

I think this is the one we were looking for:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm

[The_Nexis_One]

Oohhh... you are GOOD!


Many thanks friend,
John.

[Alaskan Reefer]

Um, not to play devil's advocate, but kalkwasser doesn't degrade in air as long as you don't disturb the surface. Read this...

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/20...ture/index.php

I think, Pensky, that your setup would be well complimented by a homebrewing bucket. That being, a 5 gallon bucket with lid that has a spigot about 1" from the bottom. Mix your kalk, put the lid on, let it settle for a day, and start dispensing your drip bags as you need them from the spigot.

Kalkreactors, IMO, are just another way to blow money. I use a 44 gallon Rubbermaid Brute trash can (about 2.5-3 weeks of topoff worth) and a peristaltic pump feeding from about 1" from the trash can's bottom. That's my kalkreactor -- trash can and a pump. Plus, it replenishes all of my topoff. Granted, my Litermeter III is way overkill (and more expensive than a kalk reactor) for the application, but in another month or two it will be automating all of my water changes too -- so it's not just that I've spent $350 to dispense kalk / topoff the tank. Tunze Osmolators are popular, and there are several types of new and refurbished hospital pumps that will do the same thing as a kalkreactor when you add a trash can. Plus, it's a lot simpler to fill and clean. Just my $.02.

[Pensky]

Thanks for everyone's help I really appreciate it

[The_Nexis_One]

Agreed - if you could put a 'tap' in the bucket, you wouldn't have to break the surface layer that forms from reaction with air.... but for that matter, you could float some styrofoam or a plastic bag on the surface of the 5gal's solution and not have the surface layer either...

I think it all comes back to - whatever you do - will work... just keep in mind that dosing fast can cause pH swings which are hard on your critters.

When you decide that Kalk is the right way for you and your setup - check out some of the other ideas here or in the DIY section and it'll make your life easier.

Best of luck,
John.

[Alaskan Reefer]

All in all, any way you can get kalk into the system is a good idea, we can all agree there! I don't know how people run tanks without it, so many benefits for such little work...

[jimbo045]

I gave up on that Kalk. thing and use PurpleUp 16 oz. instead.