can overflow and sump handle 30-40X turnover? - Page 2

sjm817 · 03/15/2006, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Serioussnaps
Also, looking at the eheims. Eheim 1262 is 900 GPH and uses 80 watts for 130 bucks. The mag9.5 is pushing 950gph(these are max. values of course) and uses 93 watts for 70 bucks. Easy decision here. The eheim costs almost double for less flow and only 13 less watts. Seems like an easy winner-----mag. 13 Watts is not gonna bother me. The power bill it will be negligible so the fact that i could use a tunze for those extra watts is a moot point. The eheim costs double where i could use the extra money of a mag for that high dollar tunze.

Don't confuse rated flow and actual flow. The 1262 will easily outflow a Mag9.5. More-so, it will do that with 3/4" plumbing while the Mag9.5 needs 1.5" fire hose to produce less flow. Same with the Eheim 1260 vs the Mag7, and 1250 Vs Mag3. Ehiem has better actual flow due to superior head loss performance and is also MUCH quieter.

My Eheim 1260 blows away the Mag7 I had in flow and you can barely even tell it's on.

Eheim is in the same class of products as Tunze and Deltec. You pay a little more for a superior product. Well worth it.

Serioussnaps · 03/16/2006, 12:06 AM

Thanks for your insight SJM.

Serioussnaps · 03/16/2006, 12:20 AM

Thanks again zapata. Pretty sure i got it all figured out. Either drill the tank with bigger hole(s) and bulkheads/more plumbing, overflows etc.... -----Get controllable Tunzes. Havent used in a small tank, but if i dont like it i can always sell a Tunze.LOL---Have run maxi jets on timers but not on a wavemaker on a past tank with some success in a small tank, but wasnt keeping SPS in it. I think I'll go with controllable Tunze and a couple of maxi jet9's stuck in dead spots.
---As for the return i have never ran an eheim, so i won't comment on them. I like the mag's i have ran because when you turn them off, they start back up 100% of the time guarranteed, now an eheim might as well, but i dont know.
----Always make sure there is room in the sump, always have always will(learned hard way).
--I think controllable Tunze is the way to go. Seio would put much more heat into the water versus performance and I dont want to see a maxi jet littered reef that would be otherwise beautiful.

Thanks for all your suggestions and input.

jacmyoung · 03/16/2006, 01:08 AM

I used a Mag12 before and now an Eheim 1262, about the same flow power. Eheim always had good review and is worth the money, just like buying a Tunze.

My Mag12 was a good work horse but added too much heat to the tank.

hahnmeister · 03/16/2006, 01:55 AM

One of the reasons that the eheim makes more flow than a Mag12 is because all those flow ratings for german pumps are according to 50Hz 220v current. That 1262 (I have a couple myself, and I gotta add...they cost more but are still worth every penny) pushes about 1100-1200gph on US 110v 60Hz current according to my calculations.

The Mag will prolly stop working after a couple years, and make its intentions loud and clear along the way. I have had eheims running w/o impeller changes now going on 18years...dead silent and still going strong. I had one break after 15 years...the ceramic shaft was actually worn through. I replaced the shaft, and its working just like day one. These pumps will save you many times their cost in the long run. Not even Tunzes have a record even close to that (how many people have had theirs seize up now....??? I know 3 personally).

Also, my link to that other article should be taken very seriously. Low flow sumps, with 1-5x the tank volume per hour have multiple advantages. Less overflow noise, less salt spray, less microbubbles, less wattage, less heat transfer to the tank, less pump noise & wear, increased skimmer performance by feeding it only the most protein rich top layers of the tank, and easier plumbing.

And in case you think pumps dont cost much ocmpared to lighting, you might want to consider that pumps are on 24/7, and lights are on 6-10 hours prolly. I know many people running multiple pumps at 300watts a piece to get decent flow through their sumps & closed loops...which adds up fast. One buddy of mine was running 1200 watts in pumps when we added it up! Heck, his lighting is only 1200 watts!!! Now, his lights are only on 7-8 hours per day...but the pumps are always running!!!

Since then we have re-worked his tanks a bit. Tunze streams ands SEIOs in the tanks have reduced his pump's collective wattage to around 300watts. His large & cheap Mag pumps (mag 18s and 24s) have been replaced with a single 150watt pumps that feeds alll 3 of his tanks with just enough flow to give 2-3x turnover. His tank temps have also dropped down so he doesnt even need a chiller in summer anymore. Thats a big deal.

jacmyoung · 03/16/2006, 08:30 AM

My mag12 actually had a little more flow than my Eheim1262 but close enough to say they are the same. There are also many who reported Mags lasting many years, and my Mag12 was just as quite as the Eheim1262.

The only issue for me was Mag12 was running hotter than Eheim (used more watts) and the Eheim lowered my tank temp by about 3 degrees. I hope that will be enough to get the tank through the summer without a chiller. And of course Eheim has its reputation for quality.

But I agree that energy consumption is more and more an issue than before, even if your electricity is cheap, the idea that you can do the same job with 1/3 of the energy can't be a bad thing. After all it is a sign of high quality and management skill we so want to display by having a reef tank in the first place, even if you have no environmental concern at all.

Now if only Tunze can make their pumps less of an eye sore, it would be a perfect world to live in

Serioussnaps · 03/16/2006, 02:52 PM

---First off---I dont plan on running this 55g tank for 18 years anyways. I have a large tank full of LPS, softies yada yada yada and have kept a larger SPS tank. I dont have an SPS tank at the moment, but want a small one, hence my buddy's 55g. I am almost 100% sure that in 15 years we will have advancements so great that we will laugh at the current equipment making that argument assanine.
------However, do you folks really experience that much of a temperature difference with the Eheim's. I am going to do everything possible to avoid buying a chiller for just a 55g reef. Sounds like overkill.With 2 175's or 2-250's i havent decided, maybe these pumps will help me in the short term with heat.
-----I am going to go with the 400 gph through the sump/fuge which is about 7 x turnover( have done this on a 55g and skimmer worked wonders, albeit this was about 5 years ago) and the Tunze controllables in tank. I appreciate all of your input.
---Will look into the eheims, since tank temp will be an issue with MH lighting and the small tank without a chiller.

Serioussnaps · 03/16/2006, 03:36 PM

---First off---I dont plan on running this 55g tank for 18 years anyways. I have a large tank full of LPS, softies yada yada yada and have kept a larger SPS tank. I dont have an SPS tank at the moment, but want a small one, hence my buddy's 55g. I am almost 100% sure that in 15 years we will have advancements so great that we will laugh at the current equipment making that argument assanine.
------However, do you folks really experience that much of a temperature difference with the Eheim's. I am going to do everything possible to avoid buying a chiller for just a 55g reef. Sounds like overkill.With 2 175's or 2-250's i havent decided, maybe these pumps will help me in the short term with heat.
-----I am going to go with the 400 gph through the sump/fuge which is about 7 x turnover( have done this on a 55g and skimmer worked wonders, albeit this was about 5 years ago) and the Tunze controllables in tank. I appreciate all of your input.
---Will look into the eheims, since tank temp will be an issue with MH lighting and the small tank without a chiller.

sjm817 · 03/16/2006, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Serioussnaps

-----I am going to go with the 400 gph through the sump/fuge which is about 7 x turnover( have done this on a 55g and skimmer worked wonders, albeit this was about 5 years ago) and the Tunze controllables in tank. I appreciate all of your input.
---Will look into the eheims, since tank temp will be an issue with MH lighting and the small tank without a chiller.

The 1260 would be good for that GPH.

hahnmeister · 03/16/2006, 04:58 PM

"Now if only Tunze can make their pumps less of an eye sore, it would be a perfect world to live in" - jacmyoung

Just wanted to check...you have seen Icecap's new vortech pumps, right?

"I am almost 100% sure that in 15 years we will have advancements so great that we will laugh at the current equipment making that argument assanine"

Serioussnaps, you might eat those words in 15 years. Some things in this hobby do change rather fast, but some stay very much the same. While Im sure that lighting technology will change, a pump is a pump, is a pump. And there are laws of physics going on with these things. The eheim hasnt changed much in the past 20 years, and still is a top performer. So while some things might change...there are some things that will stay very much the same as they have...like heaters, pumps, tank construction, stands, sumps, overflows, etc. I didnt think those eheims would last (I just didnt care at the time I should say) that long...but it sure is nice that they did.

jacmyoung · 03/16/2006, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hahnmeister
"Now if only Tunze can make their pumps less of an eye sore, it would be a perfect world to live in" - jacmyoung

Just wanted to check...you have seen Icecap's new vortech pumps, right?

...

What you know after I made that comment about Tunze pump, I did a search and stumbled on the Icecap Vortech, looked very promising other than the steep price. But it is now on the menu.

zapata41 · 03/16/2006, 11:27 PM

naps, go with teh 175w lighting for the tank and run the new iwaski 14ks, they really kick arse, better par, when ran on an icecap ballast, than any 10K 175w ran on a electronic ballast.

sorry to be kinda off topic but i recently gotthe bulb and ballast combo and absolutely love it

Tim

03/16/2006, 08:30 AM	#31
jacmyoung Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 1,421	My mag12 actually had a little more flow than my Eheim1262 but close enough to say they are the same. There are also many who reported Mags lasting many years, and my Mag12 was just as quite as the Eheim1262. The only issue for me was Mag12 was running hotter than Eheim (used more watts) and the Eheim lowered my tank temp by about 3 degrees. I hope that will be enough to get the tank through the summer without a chiller. And of course Eheim has its reputation for quality. But I agree that energy consumption is more and more an issue than before, even if your electricity is cheap, the idea that you can do the same job with 1/3 of the energy can't be a bad thing. After all it is a sign of high quality and management skill we so want to display by having a reef tank in the first place, even if you have no environmental concern at all. Now if only Tunze can make their pumps less of an eye sore, it would be a perfect world to live in Last edited by jacmyoung; 03/16/2006 at 08:44 AM.

03/16/2006, 12:06 AM	#27
Serioussnaps Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,703	Thanks for your insight SJM.

03/16/2006, 12:20 AM	#28
Serioussnaps Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,703	Thanks again zapata. Pretty sure i got it all figured out. Either drill the tank with bigger hole(s) and bulkheads/more plumbing, overflows etc.... -----Get controllable Tunzes. Havent used in a small tank, but if i dont like it i can always sell a Tunze.LOL---Have run maxi jets on timers but not on a wavemaker on a past tank with some success in a small tank, but wasnt keeping SPS in it. I think I'll go with controllable Tunze and a couple of maxi jet9's stuck in dead spots. ---As for the return i have never ran an eheim, so i won't comment on them. I like the mag's i have ran because when you turn them off, they start back up 100% of the time guarranteed, now an eheim might as well, but i dont know. ----Always make sure there is room in the sump, always have always will(learned hard way). --I think controllable Tunze is the way to go. Seio would put much more heat into the water versus performance and I dont want to see a maxi jet littered reef that would be otherwise beautiful. Thanks for all your suggestions and input.

03/16/2006, 01:08 AM	#29
jacmyoung Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 1,421	I used a Mag12 before and now an Eheim 1262, about the same flow power. Eheim always had good review and is worth the money, just like buying a Tunze. My Mag12 was a good work horse but added too much heat to the tank.

03/16/2006, 01:55 AM	#30
hahnmeister Moved On Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Brew City, WI Posts: 10,156	One of the reasons that the eheim makes more flow than a Mag12 is because all those flow ratings for german pumps are according to 50Hz 220v current. That 1262 (I have a couple myself, and I gotta add...they cost more but are still worth every penny) pushes about 1100-1200gph on US 110v 60Hz current according to my calculations. The Mag will prolly stop working after a couple years, and make its intentions loud and clear along the way. I have had eheims running w/o impeller changes now going on 18years...dead silent and still going strong. I had one break after 15 years...the ceramic shaft was actually worn through. I replaced the shaft, and its working just like day one. These pumps will save you many times their cost in the long run. Not even Tunzes have a record even close to that (how many people have had theirs seize up now....??? I know 3 personally). Also, my link to that other article should be taken very seriously. Low flow sumps, with 1-5x the tank volume per hour have multiple advantages. Less overflow noise, less salt spray, less microbubbles, less wattage, less heat transfer to the tank, less pump noise & wear, increased skimmer performance by feeding it only the most protein rich top layers of the tank, and easier plumbing. And in case you think pumps dont cost much ocmpared to lighting, you might want to consider that pumps are on 24/7, and lights are on 6-10 hours prolly. I know many people running multiple pumps at 300watts a piece to get decent flow through their sumps & closed loops...which adds up fast. One buddy of mine was running 1200 watts in pumps when we added it up! Heck, his lighting is only 1200 watts!!! Now, his lights are only on 7-8 hours per day...but the pumps are always running!!! Since then we have re-worked his tanks a bit. Tunze streams ands SEIOs in the tanks have reduced his pump's collective wattage to around 300watts. His large & cheap Mag pumps (mag 18s and 24s) have been replaced with a single 150watt pumps that feeds alll 3 of his tanks with just enough flow to give 2-3x turnover. His tank temps have also dropped down so he doesnt even need a chiller in summer anymore. Thats a big deal.

03/16/2006, 02:52 PM	#32
Serioussnaps Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,703	---First off---I dont plan on running this 55g tank for 18 years anyways. I have a large tank full of LPS, softies yada yada yada and have kept a larger SPS tank. I dont have an SPS tank at the moment, but want a small one, hence my buddy's 55g. I am almost 100% sure that in 15 years we will have advancements so great that we will laugh at the current equipment making that argument assanine. ------However, do you folks really experience that much of a temperature difference with the Eheim's. I am going to do everything possible to avoid buying a chiller for just a 55g reef. Sounds like overkill.With 2 175's or 2-250's i havent decided, maybe these pumps will help me in the short term with heat. -----I am going to go with the 400 gph through the sump/fuge which is about 7 x turnover( have done this on a 55g and skimmer worked wonders, albeit this was about 5 years ago) and the Tunze controllables in tank. I appreciate all of your input. ---Will look into the eheims, since tank temp will be an issue with MH lighting and the small tank without a chiller.

03/16/2006, 03:36 PM	#33
Serioussnaps Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,703	---First off---I dont plan on running this 55g tank for 18 years anyways. I have a large tank full of LPS, softies yada yada yada and have kept a larger SPS tank. I dont have an SPS tank at the moment, but want a small one, hence my buddy's 55g. I am almost 100% sure that in 15 years we will have advancements so great that we will laugh at the current equipment making that argument assanine. ------However, do you folks really experience that much of a temperature difference with the Eheim's. I am going to do everything possible to avoid buying a chiller for just a 55g reef. Sounds like overkill.With 2 175's or 2-250's i havent decided, maybe these pumps will help me in the short term with heat. -----I am going to go with the 400 gph through the sump/fuge which is about 7 x turnover( have done this on a 55g and skimmer worked wonders, albeit this was about 5 years ago) and the Tunze controllables in tank. I appreciate all of your input. ---Will look into the eheims, since tank temp will be an issue with MH lighting and the small tank without a chiller.

03/16/2006, 04:58 PM	#35
hahnmeister Moved On Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Brew City, WI Posts: 10,156	"Now if only Tunze can make their pumps less of an eye sore, it would be a perfect world to live in" - jacmyoung Just wanted to check...you have seen Icecap's new vortech pumps, right? "I am almost 100% sure that in 15 years we will have advancements so great that we will laugh at the current equipment making that argument assanine" Serioussnaps, you might eat those words in 15 years. Some things in this hobby do change rather fast, but some stay very much the same. While Im sure that lighting technology will change, a pump is a pump, is a pump. And there are laws of physics going on with these things. The eheim hasnt changed much in the past 20 years, and still is a top performer. So while some things might change...there are some things that will stay very much the same as they have...like heaters, pumps, tank construction, stands, sumps, overflows, etc. I didnt think those eheims would last (I just didnt care at the time I should say) that long...but it sure is nice that they did.

03/16/2006, 11:27 PM	#37
zapata41 Moved On Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Humboldt County, CA Posts: 2,024	naps, go with teh 175w lighting for the tank and run the new iwaski 14ks, they really kick arse, better par, when ran on an icecap ballast, than any 10K 175w ran on a electronic ballast. sorry to be kinda off topic but i recently gotthe bulb and ballast combo and absolutely love it Tim