cleaning questions

m3rcury · 04/10/2006, 09:33 AM

ok, so i have several questions about keep my tank clean and free of waste. first, a description of my setup

i have a 40g breeder with a 250w MH light. right now, there is a small rock (half the size of my fist) with some polyps and mushrooms on it, a sea cucumber, a flame hawkfish, a coral beauty, about 10 turbo snails and 20 or small hermit crabs. i have a bakpak 2 skimmer and i removed the biobale. the skimmer has a prefilter and a bubbletrap (which has a sponge in the bottom to prevent the bubbles from escaping back into the tank). i also have a 300gph penguin powerhead to circulate water. finally, there is 60 pounds of live rock that came from another person's tank that had been up and running for 1+ years.

now, the questions:
1) i have a lot of detrius that has settled on rocks and so forth. i have seen others talk about the importance of squirting water through a baster to stir it up and let one of the filters get it out of the water. however, with my setup, i basically have no mechanical filtration. would something like the magnum HOT filter be recommended? if so, should i let it run all the time?

2) if the HOT filter is recommended, would this be better or worse than one of the other canister filters? the other canister filters I have looked at have stuff in them for biological filtration, but i have read on here that those types of filters can be nitrate factories and it is best to keep them out of reef tanks.

3) i only have about 1.5 inches of fine sand in my tank. should i siphon vaccum the sand? if so, how do i get back under the rocks?

4) it seems the snails are leaving a LOT of small oval shaped droppings. i assume this is waste. do i need to worry about the accumulation of this waste? if so, is there a way to remove it?

5) in terms of keeping my sandbed clean, are there other inverts i should consider getting (maybe sea stars or something)?

6) is there anything else i should know about trying to keep my tank clean and free of excess waste (aside from the regular water changes)?

thanks folks. i'm just trying to keep a healthy tank.

Fast Fred · 04/10/2006, 09:55 AM

Sounds like a canister filter would suit your needs nicely. I've never owned one, as I have a sump with mechanicalfiltration. You could always remove the bio-media from the canister. I see a lot of people here using Fluval canisters.

Yes, the turkey baster is a great idea. I blast my rocks just prior to weekly water changes.

I can't recommend any way to clean the sand. I had the same problems, and I ended up going bare bottom - best thing I ever did.

m3rcury · 04/10/2006, 10:31 AM

thanks for the response.

could anyone comment on the fluval canisters? i would have to drop $100 on a canister filter only to remove half of the stuff that makes it so expensive. many of the canister filters have carbon in them. is this advisable in a reef tank? or, does it not matter?

anyone else have suggestions about the sandbed?

thanks again folks.

aquawolf · 04/10/2006, 10:38 AM

What a lot of people do is buy the cannister and then rip the guts out of it and used it for chemical filtration.

You can replace the biological media, which is not the most expensive part, with carbon, phosphate remover, and even ammonia remover. These can be run to benefit your tank without any problems.

For a quick clean up you can place filter floss or pads in the filter and use it to remove the detritus you blow off the rocks. After letting it run for a little while, stop it and remove thse pads. Clean them and hang them out to dry and they will be ready to use the next time you need them.

HTH

As for the sand, the only thing I can think of is to get some more sand sifting critters.

m3rcury · 04/10/2006, 10:45 AM

awesome suggestion. can anyone recommend a specific canister filter and suggested replacements/additions? sorry to ask for so much detail, but i would like to go with a setup that other people have found to work instead of striking out on my own. you know, the whole reinventing the wheel thing.

thanks

sttroyiii · 04/10/2006, 11:02 AM

People use canister filters on their saltwater tanks. I would only use one while you are stirring stuff up though. I have one that I use, and I just use the accordian-like filter for pulling particles out of the water column, and you can get the gravel vacuum attachment to clean your rocks and stuff. You can also put different types of media in there for polishing your water. I wouldnt leave it running on the tank for very long though. The problem with canister filters, or any other mechanical filter, is that is catches all of that stuff, but it doesnt get it out of the water. When they dont remove it from the water, you will build up nitrates. Skimmers actually seperate the waste from the water, thats why they are preferred for cleaning the water. Generally, you want to buy the best skimmer you can afford. I have a Coralife SS 65 that I would highly recommend. You have a cheaper option to a canister filter though, which is to put a filter bag over the end of your return. You can buy different size filter bags online. Some of them get down to 100 micron or smaller, but at very fine sizes you will start catching your pods, which you want to keep.

If you clean your sand, I wouldnt put the sand under the rocks again. When you have rocks stacked up with sand underneath, you could be asking for a 'reef'slide. I would place the rocks on bare glass, or make small pvc pedestals for the rocks to sit on. I keep my rocks off the bottom as much as possible with pvc, because the more surface area your tank has, the more stuff it can process.

As for the snail droppings, there isnt much you can do. They break down pretty quick, and only thing that helps is more flow. One powerhead sounds a little light. I have two, one on each side, or three if its a long tank. You can look up 'maxijet mods' and see how to do a cheap mod that simulates ocean waves, using maxijet powerheads and a cheap walmart timer. The random current keeps things stirred up so detritus doesnt accumulate. There are several types of wavemakers out there if you would rather buy them.

For sand cleaners, you probably want to check out Nassarius snails. I cant remember the exact species that you want, but some are better than others. They stay below the sand and really keep it turned. When you feed the tank, they rise up out of the sand like zombies, hehe. Also, there is a type of whelk (predetory snail) that looks just like them, so look up how to tell the difference if you decide to buy some.

m3rcury · 04/10/2006, 11:32 AM

thanks for the suggestions. i'll try to get the rocks down to bare glass. shouldn't be too hard.

also, thanks for the suggestion about the canister filter. sounds like the magnum HOT filter would be best suited for this purpose.

yes, i was also going to add another powerhead. i'll look into the maxi-jet modification.

04/10/2006, 09:33 AM	#1
m3rcury Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 325	cleaning questions ok, so i have several questions about keep my tank clean and free of waste. first, a description of my setup i have a 40g breeder with a 250w MH light. right now, there is a small rock (half the size of my fist) with some polyps and mushrooms on it, a sea cucumber, a flame hawkfish, a coral beauty, about 10 turbo snails and 20 or small hermit crabs. i have a bakpak 2 skimmer and i removed the biobale. the skimmer has a prefilter and a bubbletrap (which has a sponge in the bottom to prevent the bubbles from escaping back into the tank). i also have a 300gph penguin powerhead to circulate water. finally, there is 60 pounds of live rock that came from another person's tank that had been up and running for 1+ years. now, the questions: 1) i have a lot of detrius that has settled on rocks and so forth. i have seen others talk about the importance of squirting water through a baster to stir it up and let one of the filters get it out of the water. however, with my setup, i basically have no mechanical filtration. would something like the magnum HOT filter be recommended? if so, should i let it run all the time? 2) if the HOT filter is recommended, would this be better or worse than one of the other canister filters? the other canister filters I have looked at have stuff in them for biological filtration, but i have read on here that those types of filters can be nitrate factories and it is best to keep them out of reef tanks. 3) i only have about 1.5 inches of fine sand in my tank. should i siphon vaccum the sand? if so, how do i get back under the rocks? 4) it seems the snails are leaving a LOT of small oval shaped droppings. i assume this is waste. do i need to worry about the accumulation of this waste? if so, is there a way to remove it? 5) in terms of keeping my sandbed clean, are there other inverts i should consider getting (maybe sea stars or something)? 6) is there anything else i should know about trying to keep my tank clean and free of excess waste (aside from the regular water changes)? thanks folks. i'm just trying to keep a healthy tank.

04/10/2006, 09:55 AM	#2
Fast Fred Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Northfield, NJ 08225 Posts: 1,170	Sounds like a canister filter would suit your needs nicely. I've never owned one, as I have a sump with mechanicalfiltration. You could always remove the bio-media from the canister. I see a lot of people here using Fluval canisters. Yes, the turkey baster is a great idea. I blast my rocks just prior to weekly water changes. I can't recommend any way to clean the sand. I had the same problems, and I ended up going bare bottom - best thing I ever did. __________________ Ya know, for a clown fish, you're not very funny! Member of the New Jersey Reefers Club Current Tank Info: 125g Reef Ready AGA /55g Top Fin Tank for a sump/refugium/ LifeReef Skimmer/ Changing over to SPS only

04/10/2006, 10:38 AM	#4
aquawolf Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Martin, South Carolina Posts: 343	What a lot of people do is buy the cannister and then rip the guts out of it and used it for chemical filtration. You can replace the biological media, which is not the most expensive part, with carbon, phosphate remover, and even ammonia remover. These can be run to benefit your tank without any problems. For a quick clean up you can place filter floss or pads in the filter and use it to remove the detritus you blow off the rocks. After letting it run for a little while, stop it and remove thse pads. Clean them and hang them out to dry and they will be ready to use the next time you need them. HTH As for the sand, the only thing I can think of is to get some more sand sifting critters. __________________ Most good judgment comes from experience. Most experience comes from bad judgment. Current Tank Info: 75 Reef, CPR CY294, Home Made Refugium, Coralife Aqualight Pro 48" Dual 150 MH / 30 Gallon Sea Horse Tank / 40 Gallon FOWLR

04/10/2006, 10:31 AM	#3
m3rcury Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 325	thanks for the response. could anyone comment on the fluval canisters? i would have to drop $100 on a canister filter only to remove half of the stuff that makes it so expensive. many of the canister filters have carbon in them. is this advisable in a reef tank? or, does it not matter? anyone else have suggestions about the sandbed? thanks again folks.

04/10/2006, 10:45 AM	#5
m3rcury Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 325	awesome suggestion. can anyone recommend a specific canister filter and suggested replacements/additions? sorry to ask for so much detail, but i would like to go with a setup that other people have found to work instead of striking out on my own. you know, the whole reinventing the wheel thing. thanks

04/10/2006, 11:02 AM	#6
sttroyiii Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 378	People use canister filters on their saltwater tanks. I would only use one while you are stirring stuff up though. I have one that I use, and I just use the accordian-like filter for pulling particles out of the water column, and you can get the gravel vacuum attachment to clean your rocks and stuff. You can also put different types of media in there for polishing your water. I wouldnt leave it running on the tank for very long though. The problem with canister filters, or any other mechanical filter, is that is catches all of that stuff, but it doesnt get it out of the water. When they dont remove it from the water, you will build up nitrates. Skimmers actually seperate the waste from the water, thats why they are preferred for cleaning the water. Generally, you want to buy the best skimmer you can afford. I have a Coralife SS 65 that I would highly recommend. You have a cheaper option to a canister filter though, which is to put a filter bag over the end of your return. You can buy different size filter bags online. Some of them get down to 100 micron or smaller, but at very fine sizes you will start catching your pods, which you want to keep. If you clean your sand, I wouldnt put the sand under the rocks again. When you have rocks stacked up with sand underneath, you could be asking for a 'reef'slide. I would place the rocks on bare glass, or make small pvc pedestals for the rocks to sit on. I keep my rocks off the bottom as much as possible with pvc, because the more surface area your tank has, the more stuff it can process. As for the snail droppings, there isnt much you can do. They break down pretty quick, and only thing that helps is more flow. One powerhead sounds a little light. I have two, one on each side, or three if its a long tank. You can look up 'maxijet mods' and see how to do a cheap mod that simulates ocean waves, using maxijet powerheads and a cheap walmart timer. The random current keeps things stirred up so detritus doesnt accumulate. There are several types of wavemakers out there if you would rather buy them. For sand cleaners, you probably want to check out Nassarius snails. I cant remember the exact species that you want, but some are better than others. They stay below the sand and really keep it turned. When you feed the tank, they rise up out of the sand like zombies, hehe. Also, there is a type of whelk (predetory snail) that looks just like them, so look up how to tell the difference if you decide to buy some.

04/10/2006, 11:32 AM	#7
m3rcury Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 325	thanks for the suggestions. i'll try to get the rocks down to bare glass. shouldn't be too hard. also, thanks for the suggestion about the canister filter. sounds like the magnum HOT filter would be best suited for this purpose. yes, i was also going to add another powerhead. i'll look into the maxi-jet modification.