Getting another tank...am I on the right track?

Octoberfest · 05/06/2006, 12:00 PM

O.k. I'm getting another tank tomorrow. It's allready set-up with no live stock so I'll be starting from there. Here is how it's set-up; still has water in it, 80 to 100lbs of live rock, 4" sand bed and something she called a plenum. There is a wet-dry filter under the tank and the tank is drilled with an overflow in the corner.

Here is my plan. I'm going to drain all the water out of the tank. The rock has tons of hair algei on but also has tons of coraline so I'm debating on weather to clean it/cook it and start from scratch or get some "critters" to remove the "hair" the natural way(this I could use comments on). Depending on what I want to do with the rock will determin what I do with the rock as far as keeping it wet or just putting it in a container.

Now the road it's located on is dirt and I have a heavy duty suspension truck so not disturbing the sandbed is going to be tough. I'm thinking that it might be smarter for me to get rid of all of this sand and start over, or is this going too far?

Now a wet-dry filter. Can this be used as a fuge/sump? Same thing correct just take out the bio balls and add what ever else is needed?

She has power compact lights with it but said that they need new ballasts or something because she can't get them to work, I'm thining maybe the bulbs are just burnt out but I don't know how to check it for sure.

O.k., if I'm missing anything let me know.

Randall_James · 05/06/2006, 01:06 PM

how big a hurry are you in?
I would certainly ditch the sandbed (should not move a tank with it in anyway)
I would start the tank with no substrate and work on getting the rock back in shape. After the rock is clear of the mess, add the substrate and begin the cycle process for the sand bed.
OR
cook the rock while the tank cycles with your new substrate.. I prefer not to cook the rock myself but it will probably take a bit longer to clear the rock of the algae

The lights, you need at least 1 known good bulb to test the ballasts. Depending where you are, I am sure someone around you has a bulb you could borrow. Premium aquatics often has bulbs (new) on clearance for 10-20 bucks.

Wet/dry converted to sump? guys do it all the time. If you are not going to have corals, you could leave it as is too

Blindmelonbob · 05/06/2006, 01:06 PM

I'd say get rid of the sandbed before you even try to move it. 4" of dry sand probably weighs at least 150 lbs. Having it wet...well...it's gonna be a LOT harder to lift/move without dropping or breaking it. You could save some of the live sand to seed a new sandbed if you want.

bertoni · 05/06/2006, 01:29 PM

I would ditch the sand, too, most likely, and the plenum as well. There's no evidence that they work, anyway. I can point you at some articles if you're interested.

I would advise against 'cooking' the rock, which is basically curing it in the dark for a while, and has nothing to do with heating it.

meco65 · 05/06/2006, 01:30 PM

I would take the sand out of the tank to move it. Than rinse the sand well using tap water to clean, than rinse with RO/DI before putting back in the tank. As for the rock if you want to save the coralin algae you can clean the green hair algae as best as you can put it back in tank and only run the lights 4 or 5 hours a day till the tank cycles add a good clean up crew and keep the nitates down and it should be ok.

Sk8r · 05/06/2006, 02:54 PM

Take everything out to move it, just because of weight. But put rock, etc, in water barrels. I take it that this is currently a marine tank.

I used rock straight from someone's tank with no cooking or other alteration and was rewarded with a good culture of worms, etc, including some xenia and sponges. After 4 months, I'm full-up on corals and things are doing nicely.

You're going to have a cycle, no question, especially if you lay down aragonite sand to replace what may well be crushed coral, if this is an older tank. So you might put the bioballs in for a start, but start pulling them out a few a day until there are none.

I'd convert the plenum to a sump, and refugium if big enough, install a skimmer, turn everything on and just let 'er run for a month before adding cleaning crew. So if it has algae? It's going to have algae. Everything has algae. The CC will get it sooner or later. The live-r you can get it, the better, IMHO. No telling what water's been used, or what its history is, so you might want to run carbon and polyfilter after the cycle is done, just a cover-all-bases. If you get colors on the polyfilter, keep running it until you don't.

Nice deal!

jdhanover · 05/06/2006, 03:21 PM

Why dump the sand? I am mew to all this but have asked a lot of questions and had a lot of expert responses. Based on that ...

I got some from a reefer - transported it in a bucket then put in a tub here with SW, a PH and heater. Doing fine.
Sand is not so eay to come by anymore. Take a couple of buckets for the sand (leave a little water in there too).
Just be patient with the new setup.

Randall_James · 05/06/2006, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jdhanover
Why dump the sand? I am mew to all this but have asked a lot of questions and had a lot of expert responses. Based on that ...
.

It was suggested earlier in this thread to "Rinse" the sand. Do not....

Aragonite by its very nature will adsorb PO3/PO4 (as will your live rock btw) over time in a tank (old tank syndrome)

Upon rinsing and re-introducing this substrate, you have simply installed a phosphate leaking media back into your system and the algae headaches it can present.

Ditch it, replace it and yes you could keep a cup or 2 for seeding the new sand, I would personally invest in a couple pounds from BillsReef.com and use new "CaribSea Reef Grade" aragonite if you can afford it. DO NOT use the 30lb bags of aragonite made by the same, it is really dirty and full of powder, sticks and trash.

Great success with silica sand as well so you really have a lot of options and I just posted the one I happen to use (yes cost me pretty penny to do the substrate

)

bertoni · 05/06/2006, 04:33 PM

You can reuse the sand, but as Randall_James mentioned, a lot of sandbeds do get a lot of nutrient buildup. Another option would be to rinse a bit of the sand, and add a 1" layer to the tank, along with the cup or two of saved, unrinsed sand. You might end up siphoning it out of the tank, though, if it's in bad shape, but the effort wouldn't be so bad.

davocean · 05/06/2006, 05:08 PM

Would drying sand in the sun kill off harmful stuff?
Then maybe rinse with RO or saltwater?
I never even thought about sand absorbing PO3/PO4 from tap.
Glad I read that.

Randall_James · 05/06/2006, 05:57 PM

As far as live stuff yes it would kill it off. That is not the issue, if anything you "want" the live things, it is the chemical compounds of the phosphates you do not want

davocean · 05/06/2006, 06:20 PM

I was just trying to think of a way to recycle the sand.
It does seem to be a waste to just ditch it.
I was thinking more along the means to clean it, and start a new cycle using some live sand to reseed it.
That with LR would be a fairly fast cycle wouldn't it?
Or is this just totally impractical thinking.

NCreefwannabe · 05/06/2006, 07:42 PM

Go get some southdown from greg, use some sand from your 120 and call it a day. I cooked/cured my LR, no more hair algae. Its likely theres not much living in the rock by now anyways since they may or may not have kept the tank up to specs lately. Seed some LR from your 120 after cycling and your golden. You have everything to get it going now just from using some from your 120 gallon. This way, you actually get a fresh start with nice new sand with no possible issues.

So did you want me to come over and help? Forgot if I asked in pm or not?

Octoberfest · 05/09/2006, 08:55 AM

Well I got it all this weekend and here is what it came with.

75 Gallon tank corner drilled with the overflow/dam thing.
Store bought solid oak stand and matching canopy(black both in great shape)
Wet Dry filter/sump set-up
Big Moombasa Protein skimmer (going to look into this one but I think I'll need a new one)
2 48" Power Compact fixtures (two 55watt bulbs per fixture)
Several power heads/pumps
100lbs of really nice live rock, most of it large pieces for a 75(basketball size) except for what was in the wet/dry filter.
bunch of chemicals and books etc.
200lbs of sand (still up in the air on what to do with this)

I got it all for the grand total of $200.00 yeah I said 200.00

The lights don't work but I'm getting new ones...for free, I'll post a link to how in a minute.

Octoberfest · 05/09/2006, 09:10 AM

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...hreadid=841284

05/06/2006, 12:00 PM	#1
Octoberfest Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: NC Posts: 1,350	Getting another tank...am I on the right track? O.k. I'm getting another tank tomorrow. It's allready set-up with no live stock so I'll be starting from there. Here is how it's set-up; still has water in it, 80 to 100lbs of live rock, 4" sand bed and something she called a plenum. There is a wet-dry filter under the tank and the tank is drilled with an overflow in the corner. Here is my plan. I'm going to drain all the water out of the tank. The rock has tons of hair algei on but also has tons of coraline so I'm debating on weather to clean it/cook it and start from scratch or get some "critters" to remove the "hair" the natural way(this I could use comments on). Depending on what I want to do with the rock will determin what I do with the rock as far as keeping it wet or just putting it in a container. Now the road it's located on is dirt and I have a heavy duty suspension truck so not disturbing the sandbed is going to be tough. I'm thinking that it might be smarter for me to get rid of all of this sand and start over, or is this going too far? Now a wet-dry filter. Can this be used as a fuge/sump? Same thing correct just take out the bio balls and add what ever else is needed? She has power compact lights with it but said that they need new ballasts or something because she can't get them to work, I'm thining maybe the bulbs are just burnt out but I don't know how to check it for sure. O.k., if I'm missing anything let me know. __________________ 29 gallon bio-cube with 150w metal halide sunpod fixture, stock 14 gallon bio-cube

05/06/2006, 01:06 PM	#2
Randall_James Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6,727	how big a hurry are you in? I would certainly ditch the sandbed (should not move a tank with it in anyway) I would start the tank with no substrate and work on getting the rock back in shape. After the rock is clear of the mess, add the substrate and begin the cycle process for the sand bed. OR cook the rock while the tank cycles with your new substrate.. I prefer not to cook the rock myself but it will probably take a bit longer to clear the rock of the algae The lights, you need at least 1 known good bulb to test the ballasts. Depending where you are, I am sure someone around you has a bulb you could borrow. Premium aquatics often has bulbs (new) on clearance for 10-20 bucks. Wet/dry converted to sump? guys do it all the time. If you are not going to have corals, you could leave it as is too __________________ "It's a dog eat dog world and I feel like I am wearing milkbone underwear"

05/06/2006, 01:29 PM	#4
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	I would ditch the sand, too, most likely, and the plenum as well. There's no evidence that they work, anyway. I can point you at some articles if you're interested. I would advise against 'cooking' the rock, which is basically curing it in the dark for a while, and has nothing to do with heating it. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

05/06/2006, 02:54 PM	#6
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Take everything out to move it, just because of weight. But put rock, etc, in water barrels. I take it that this is currently a marine tank. I used rock straight from someone's tank with no cooking or other alteration and was rewarded with a good culture of worms, etc, including some xenia and sponges. After 4 months, I'm full-up on corals and things are doing nicely. You're going to have a cycle, no question, especially if you lay down aragonite sand to replace what may well be crushed coral, if this is an older tank. So you might put the bioballs in for a start, but start pulling them out a few a day until there are none. I'd convert the plenum to a sump, and refugium if big enough, install a skimmer, turn everything on and just let 'er run for a month before adding cleaning crew. So if it has algae? It's going to have algae. Everything has algae. The CC will get it sooner or later. The live-r you can get it, the better, IMHO. No telling what water's been used, or what its history is, so you might want to run carbon and polyfilter after the cycle is done, just a cover-all-bases. If you get colors on the polyfilter, keep running it until you don't. Nice deal! __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

05/06/2006, 03:21 PM	#7
jdhanover Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Chicago Suburbs North Posts: 805	Why dump the sand? I am mew to all this but have asked a lot of questions and had a lot of expert responses. Based on that ... I got some from a reefer - transported it in a bucket then put in a tub here with SW, a PH and heater. Doing fine. Sand is not so eay to come by anymore. Take a couple of buckets for the sand (leave a little water in there too). Just be patient with the new setup. __________________ Regards, Jon Current Tank Info: JBJ Nano 28g for sale along with other stuff

05/06/2006, 01:06 PM	#3
Blindmelonbob Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Arkansas, USA Posts: 662	I'd say get rid of the sandbed before you even try to move it. 4" of dry sand probably weighs at least 150 lbs. Having it wet...well...it's gonna be a LOT harder to lift/move without dropping or breaking it. You could save some of the live sand to seed a new sandbed if you want.

05/06/2006, 01:30 PM	#5
meco65 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Arkansas Posts: 1,603	I would take the sand out of the tank to move it. Than rinse the sand well using tap water to clean, than rinse with RO/DI before putting back in the tank. As for the rock if you want to save the coralin algae you can clean the green hair algae as best as you can put it back in tank and only run the lights 4 or 5 hours a day till the tank cycles add a good clean up crew and keep the nitates down and it should be ok.

05/06/2006, 04:33 PM	#9
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	You can reuse the sand, but as Randall_James mentioned, a lot of sandbeds do get a lot of nutrient buildup. Another option would be to rinse a bit of the sand, and add a 1" layer to the tank, along with the cup or two of saved, unrinsed sand. You might end up siphoning it out of the tank, though, if it's in bad shape, but the effort wouldn't be so bad. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

05/06/2006, 05:08 PM	#10
davocean Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 14,655	Would drying sand in the sun kill off harmful stuff? Then maybe rinse with RO or saltwater? I never even thought about sand absorbing PO3/PO4 from tap. Glad I read that. __________________ There's a fine line between owning your tank and your tank owning you! Current Tank Info: SCA 120g RR Starfire, Tunze silence 1073.02 return, 40g sump w/ fuge, SWC Extreme 160 cone skimmer,Geismann reflexx 4xT5, 2x Panorama Pro LED strips, Vortech MP40QD

05/06/2006, 05:57 PM	#11
Randall_James Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6,727	As far as live stuff yes it would kill it off. That is not the issue, if anything you "want" the live things, it is the chemical compounds of the phosphates you do not want __________________ "It's a dog eat dog world and I feel like I am wearing milkbone underwear"

05/06/2006, 06:20 PM	#12
davocean Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 14,655	I was just trying to think of a way to recycle the sand. It does seem to be a waste to just ditch it. I was thinking more along the means to clean it, and start a new cycle using some live sand to reseed it. That with LR would be a fairly fast cycle wouldn't it? Or is this just totally impractical thinking. __________________ There's a fine line between owning your tank and your tank owning you! Current Tank Info: SCA 120g RR Starfire, Tunze silence 1073.02 return, 40g sump w/ fuge, SWC Extreme 160 cone skimmer,Geismann reflexx 4xT5, 2x Panorama Pro LED strips, Vortech MP40QD

05/06/2006, 07:42 PM	#13
NCreefwannabe Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 953	Go get some southdown from greg, use some sand from your 120 and call it a day. I cooked/cured my LR, no more hair algae. Its likely theres not much living in the rock by now anyways since they may or may not have kept the tank up to specs lately. Seed some LR from your 120 after cycling and your golden. You have everything to get it going now just from using some from your 120 gallon. This way, you actually get a fresh start with nice new sand with no possible issues. So did you want me to come over and help? Forgot if I asked in pm or not?

05/09/2006, 08:55 AM	#14
Octoberfest Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: NC Posts: 1,350	Well I got it all this weekend and here is what it came with. 75 Gallon tank corner drilled with the overflow/dam thing. Store bought solid oak stand and matching canopy(black both in great shape) Wet Dry filter/sump set-up Big Moombasa Protein skimmer (going to look into this one but I think I'll need a new one) 2 48" Power Compact fixtures (two 55watt bulbs per fixture) Several power heads/pumps 100lbs of really nice live rock, most of it large pieces for a 75(basketball size) except for what was in the wet/dry filter. bunch of chemicals and books etc. 200lbs of sand (still up in the air on what to do with this) I got it all for the grand total of $200.00 yeah I said 200.00 The lights don't work but I'm getting new ones...for free, I'll post a link to how in a minute. __________________ 29 gallon bio-cube with 150w metal halide sunpod fixture, stock 14 gallon bio-cube

05/09/2006, 09:10 AM	#15
Octoberfest Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: NC Posts: 1,350	http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...hreadid=841284 __________________ 29 gallon bio-cube with 150w metal halide sunpod fixture, stock 14 gallon bio-cube