OMG STONY CORALS FOUND NEAR SYDNEY WATERS in 20c/68f!!!

mrblue · 05/22/2006, 02:10 AM

I finally got a spare sec to fit a dive in today and a friend of mine made an amazing discovery, SPS, in temperate waters, found around 2-3hrs drive from Sydney. I could be wrong, but as far as I know hard corals of any kind are not found even close to this far south. The exception to this rule is Lord Howe, which is considered the most southern true reef in the world and is hundreds km's further north and around 500nm off the coast.

The coral looked a lot like Stylophora pistillata and was growing on a break wall. I have never seen or heard of any stony corals in the area and even softies aren't that prolific, most of our 'reefs' are made up of sponge gardens. Has anyone ever heard of this? I can't help thinking this is a bud of a future reef, or just a crazy fluke-an extreme lost tropical

.

Ryan.

zemuron114 · 05/22/2006, 04:27 AM

very cool!

are you sure it was a stony though?

MiddletonMark · 05/22/2006, 04:35 AM

`Cup' corals are found pretty far up the Atlantic coast, some corals live in fairly cold waters. I'm happily suprised that it's there, not that it's possible IMO.

mrblue · 05/22/2006, 09:15 AM

Zemuron114,
I am very sure it was a stony, not only that, but most definately a SPS. This is going to hard to prove, so you guys are going to have to trust me. Believe me, if this is the first time SPS has been found in the area, it will make news.

MiddletonMark,
That's interesting about 'Cup' corals ( I remember they were quite prolific on Lord Howe), are they the only stony corals that grow in temperate/cold water areas? I have to say, IMO, if someone had told me yesterday they found SPS locally I wouldn't have believed it for a sec. When my friend told me there was a stonish coral down there me, and a few other fish friends all agreed it must have been something else. I still can't really believe I saw it.

Give me some time and I will provide proof. Until then, I would be really interested in what people thought about what is the significance of this, if anything. Keep in mind that locally no stony corals at all are found, no LFS, no SPS no anything and from what I know only things like gorgonians are represented in the range of softies.

brian3 · 05/22/2006, 09:42 AM

The Florida Keys water drops to 68 deg. F in the winter and they somehow survive.

mrblue · 05/22/2006, 09:49 AM

In winter it gets below 59 deg. F or 15 deg. C. Do SPS occur around the Keys?

jaymz101 · 05/22/2006, 09:55 AM

Corals have been known to grow in cooler waters in the Atlantic and pretty deep too. Most of these species are not Zooxanthellate though (no algae) and do not need the intense lighting or warmer temps that the algae demands. Its really the zooxanthellae that determine where corals are found.

Staghorn is very prolific in the keys among other SPS

Travis L. Stevens · 05/22/2006, 10:11 AM

This does not surprise me. There are many corals that thrive in colder waters. Would it surprise you that there are barnacles and anemones that live in freezing water or worms and shrimp that live in boiling water? Thank you for the find. You might want to look more information up on some of the corals in question at http://whelk.aims.gov.au/coralsearch/coralsearch.php

mrblue · 05/22/2006, 10:21 AM

I suppose it makes sense SPS could go well in the low of 68.F of the Keys, they do well enough in the low of 64.4.F of Lord Howe. These corals were pretty shallow, only ranging down as much as 6m in the middle of the high. I'll have to get the exact winter temp tomorrow.

Travis L. Stevens · 05/22/2006, 10:25 AM

Hmm, after re-reading my post, it almost sounds rude depending how you interprate it. Sorry if it does. I didn't mean for it to. I am eager to know what results you turn up. I would suspect that the temperature of the water has little to do with how well the coral lives. I'm sure growth will probably be slower, but as long as the Zooxanthallae algae and coral itself can survive the temperature, all it would really need is light.

mrblue · 05/22/2006, 10:37 AM

It did surprise me that life is found in such harsh environments, but I do believe it

. I had a look through the Stylophora genus and if it is not the Pistillata, only Madagascarensis seems to really fit. I haven't come across any pics of a similar colour variation but I'm not really into SPS, this one is a pinky brown colour with emerald green polyps, that form sort of spots all over the coral.

mrblue · 05/22/2006, 10:46 AM

Not rude at all

. I must have replied while you did as well. I'm not sure how many results I will turn up personally but I have contacted the Marine Parks and a researcher is going to look into to it. I'll keep everyone informed as info becomes available.

One of the people on Lord Howe was telling me that coral growth (in relation to the re-growing of Middleton Reef) in the area was much slower then usual full tropical variations.

Do you see a problem with the quality of the visibilty affecting the intensity of light around here?

Travis L. Stevens · 05/22/2006, 10:51 AM

Unfortunately, I would suspect it to be nearly impossible to truly identify without coralite inspection under a microscope (something I'm not good at. Yet....) No offense, but I have a feeling that the identification as a Stylophora could be off. If you get a chance, try to take pictures. If it's legal, see if you can get a few samples of the skeleton without severely damaging the coral.

Of course, it couldn't be S. madagascarensis. It's found off the coast of Madagascar, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't accidently introduced through irresponsibility. But I highly doubt that. If it's not a Stylophora species, you may also want to look at Pocillipora species. Better yet, pray for a Scientific breakthrough and have it be a Montigyra kenti. After all, only one specimen has ever been found

Travis L. Stevens · 05/22/2006, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mrblue
Do you see a problem with the quality of the visibilty affecting the intensity of light around here?

In short, yes. It's true that visibility is directly related to light intensity, and vice versa. That's "common" knowledge. Now how this effects corals? I'm not sure. I suspect that it doesn't do them any good. But that would also depend on what is decreasing the visibility/intensity. Is it a coral spawn, red tide outbreak, etc? Basically, is the haziness "edible". If so, then the coral should be able to eat and do fine with the lack of light intensity until the water can clear up.

mrblue · 05/24/2006, 02:07 AM

Sorry I haven't replied before now, I have been having problems browsing.

I believe the haziness around here would mostly be due to silt/runoff and some plankton. I don't think we get red tides and we wouldn't get full-on coral spawns.

I talked to a professor of marine biology today who is involved with lost tropicals and he said that these stony corals had already been discovered in the area. Outcrops or bommies of Posillopora demicornis have been found off the coast in our area. From the description it sounds like these small colonies that we saw were most likely the same species, although none have previously been found in that area.

This guy said something which was interesting, not that I really understood it

. Apparently this species is a brooding spawner not the broadcast type.

Travis L. Stevens · 05/24/2006, 07:32 AM

Interesting. Pocillipora is what I was guessing, but I was unsure. Thanks for the update. Good sleuthing and good eye spotting them

mrblue · 05/25/2006, 09:37 PM

No problem, I just wish it had turned out to be something a bit more exciting, but still SPS in 58f, thats pretty cool.

It has made me think that maybe this is a sign of a future southern reef. If large outcrops are developing off the coast, who knows what could happen in a few million years

.

05/22/2006, 02:10 AM	#1
mrblue Moved On Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 207	OMG STONY CORALS FOUND NEAR SYDNEY WATERS in 20c/68f!!! I finally got a spare sec to fit a dive in today and a friend of mine made an amazing discovery, SPS, in temperate waters, found around 2-3hrs drive from Sydney. I could be wrong, but as far as I know hard corals of any kind are not found even close to this far south. The exception to this rule is Lord Howe, which is considered the most southern true reef in the world and is hundreds km's further north and around 500nm off the coast. The coral looked a lot like Stylophora pistillata and was growing on a break wall. I have never seen or heard of any stony corals in the area and even softies aren't that prolific, most of our 'reefs' are made up of sponge gardens. Has anyone ever heard of this? I can't help thinking this is a bud of a future reef, or just a crazy fluke-an extreme lost tropical . Ryan.

05/22/2006, 04:35 AM	#3
MiddletonMark Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 14,441	`Cup' corals are found pretty far up the Atlantic coast, some corals live in fairly cold waters. I'm happily suprised that it's there, not that it's possible IMO. __________________ read a lot, think for yourself Current Tank Info: 58g stony reef [250w10k, 250w 20k MH, 2x vho act, Octopus150, 6060 + 6000] ; 60g mixed tub

05/22/2006, 09:55 AM	#7
jaymz101 Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: St. Pete, FL Posts: 410	Corals have been known to grow in cooler waters in the Atlantic and pretty deep too. Most of these species are not Zooxanthellate though (no algae) and do not need the intense lighting or warmer temps that the algae demands. Its really the zooxanthellae that determine where corals are found. Staghorn is very prolific in the keys among other SPS __________________ In 96 hours, Jack Bauer has killed 93 people and saved the world 4 times. What have you done with your life? Current Tank Info: Lobo, local Oculina, Acro., hydnophora, lots of zoas, caulastrea, pagoda and scroll, foxface flasher wrass and firefish

05/22/2006, 10:11 AM	#8
Travis L. Stevens Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Perry, OK Posts: 13,946	This does not surprise me. There are many corals that thrive in colder waters. Would it surprise you that there are barnacles and anemones that live in freezing water or worms and shrimp that live in boiling water? Thank you for the find. You might want to look more information up on some of the corals in question at http://whelk.aims.gov.au/coralsearch/coralsearch.php __________________ Travis Stevens Current Tank Info: Restarting 28g Bowfront

05/22/2006, 10:25 AM	#10
Travis L. Stevens Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Perry, OK Posts: 13,946	Hmm, after re-reading my post, it almost sounds rude depending how you interprate it. Sorry if it does. I didn't mean for it to. I am eager to know what results you turn up. I would suspect that the temperature of the water has little to do with how well the coral lives. I'm sure growth will probably be slower, but as long as the Zooxanthallae algae and coral itself can survive the temperature, all it would really need is light. __________________ Travis Stevens Current Tank Info: Restarting 28g Bowfront

05/22/2006, 04:27 AM	#2
zemuron114 Moved On Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Pilgrim State (Mass) Posts: 4,039	very cool! are you sure it was a stony though?

05/22/2006, 09:15 AM	#4
mrblue Moved On Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 207	Zemuron114, I am very sure it was a stony, not only that, but most definately a SPS. This is going to hard to prove, so you guys are going to have to trust me. Believe me, if this is the first time SPS has been found in the area, it will make news. MiddletonMark, That's interesting about 'Cup' corals ( I remember they were quite prolific on Lord Howe), are they the only stony corals that grow in temperate/cold water areas? I have to say, IMO, if someone had told me yesterday they found SPS locally I wouldn't have believed it for a sec. When my friend told me there was a stonish coral down there me, and a few other fish friends all agreed it must have been something else. I still can't really believe I saw it. Give me some time and I will provide proof. Until then, I would be really interested in what people thought about what is the significance of this, if anything. Keep in mind that locally no stony corals at all are found, no LFS, no SPS no anything and from what I know only things like gorgonians are represented in the range of softies.

05/22/2006, 09:42 AM	#5
brian3 Registered Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: PA Posts: 216	The Florida Keys water drops to 68 deg. F in the winter and they somehow survive.

05/22/2006, 09:49 AM	#6
mrblue Moved On Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 207	In winter it gets below 59 deg. F or 15 deg. C. Do SPS occur around the Keys?

05/22/2006, 10:21 AM	#9
mrblue Moved On Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 207	I suppose it makes sense SPS could go well in the low of 68.F of the Keys, they do well enough in the low of 64.4.F of Lord Howe. These corals were pretty shallow, only ranging down as much as 6m in the middle of the high. I'll have to get the exact winter temp tomorrow.

05/22/2006, 10:37 AM	#11
mrblue Moved On Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 207	It did surprise me that life is found in such harsh environments, but I do believe it . I had a look through the Stylophora genus and if it is not the Pistillata, only Madagascarensis seems to really fit. I haven't come across any pics of a similar colour variation but I'm not really into SPS, this one is a pinky brown colour with emerald green polyps, that form sort of spots all over the coral.

05/22/2006, 10:46 AM	#12
mrblue Moved On Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 207	Not rude at all . I must have replied while you did as well. I'm not sure how many results I will turn up personally but I have contacted the Marine Parks and a researcher is going to look into to it. I'll keep everyone informed as info becomes available. One of the people on Lord Howe was telling me that coral growth (in relation to the re-growing of Middleton Reef) in the area was much slower then usual full tropical variations. Do you see a problem with the quality of the visibilty affecting the intensity of light around here?

05/22/2006, 10:51 AM	#13
Travis L. Stevens Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Perry, OK Posts: 13,946	Unfortunately, I would suspect it to be nearly impossible to truly identify without coralite inspection under a microscope (something I'm not good at. Yet....) No offense, but I have a feeling that the identification as a Stylophora could be off. If you get a chance, try to take pictures. If it's legal, see if you can get a few samples of the skeleton without severely damaging the coral. Of course, it couldn't be S. madagascarensis. It's found off the coast of Madagascar, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't accidently introduced through irresponsibility. But I highly doubt that. If it's not a Stylophora species, you may also want to look at Pocillipora species. Better yet, pray for a Scientific breakthrough and have it be a Montigyra kenti. After all, only one specimen has ever been found __________________ Travis Stevens Current Tank Info: Restarting 28g Bowfront

05/24/2006, 02:07 AM	#15
mrblue Moved On Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 207	Sorry I haven't replied before now, I have been having problems browsing. I believe the haziness around here would mostly be due to silt/runoff and some plankton. I don't think we get red tides and we wouldn't get full-on coral spawns. I talked to a professor of marine biology today who is involved with lost tropicals and he said that these stony corals had already been discovered in the area. Outcrops or bommies of Posillopora demicornis have been found off the coast in our area. From the description it sounds like these small colonies that we saw were most likely the same species, although none have previously been found in that area. This guy said something which was interesting, not that I really understood it . Apparently this species is a brooding spawner not the broadcast type.

05/24/2006, 07:32 AM	#16
Travis L. Stevens Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Perry, OK Posts: 13,946	Interesting. Pocillipora is what I was guessing, but I was unsure. Thanks for the update. Good sleuthing and good eye spotting them __________________ Travis Stevens Current Tank Info: Restarting 28g Bowfront

05/25/2006, 09:37 PM	#17
mrblue Moved On Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 207	No problem, I just wish it had turned out to be something a bit more exciting, but still SPS in 58f, thats pretty cool. It has made me think that maybe this is a sign of a future southern reef. If large outcrops are developing off the coast, who knows what could happen in a few million years .