How many fish is to many fish?

xlayedoutx · 06/15/2006, 03:00 PM

So how many fish is to many fish? I know the whole 1 inch for every gallon but is that really right. If that was correct I'd be able to have 75 1 inch fish. I have a 75g and here is my fish list so far.

1 blue tang 1.5 inches
4 green chromis 2 inches each
2 false clowns 2 inches each
1 6-line wrasse 2 inches
1 diamond goby 3 inches

I plan on selling the fish once they start to get to big for the tank but that won't be for awhile. Untill then I was planning on adding the following.

2 Catalina Gobies 1 inch each
1 Flame Angel
1 Purple dotyback
1 copperbanded Butterfly (maybe)
1 yellow or purple tang (maybe) Would also sell once it got bigger.

Does that sound like to much. Keep in mind I do plan on selling once they get to big. I have a local buyer so the fish won't be too stressed moving again. Please let me know what you think.

nubomb · 06/15/2006, 03:04 PM

I think it is 1 inch for every five gallons

s3aL · 06/15/2006, 03:06 PM

Your bio-load seems abit high as it is. I wouldnt bother with any tangs since you are already on the high bioload side. A flame angel instead of a tang would be perfect for your size tank. Maybe another small fish or two if you "had" to add more. The Catalina Gobies are cold water fish so I would just scrap that idea.

NEEDMONEYFORMORESALT · 06/15/2006, 03:40 PM

the fresh water rule of thumb of 1 inch per gallon doesn't apply to salt water. Plus you have to factor in how many of those 75 gallons are really not there due to the displacement of the live rock. I've heard the saltwater rule (if there is even a rule) is more like around 1 inch per 6-8 gallons.

kevin2000 · 06/15/2006, 03:49 PM

Not sure if I understand your post.

You may find that buying fish to grow and sell doesn't make much sense - unfortunately the larger the fish the less marketable it tends to be ---- let alone the catching, storing, transporting etc.

Basic rules still apply ... figure out what fish will do well in your current tank with your other fish .. make that determination based on their reasonable adult size.

xlayedoutx · 06/15/2006, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by s3aL
Your bio-load seems abit high as it is. I wouldnt bother with any tangs since you are already on the high bioload side. A flame angel instead of a tang would be perfect for your size tank. Maybe another small fish or two if you "had" to add more. The Catalina Gobies are cold water fish so I would just scrap that idea.

Yeah I'm going to dump the idea of another tang. I am picking up a Flame Angel once my LFS gets them in in the size that I want.

As for the Catolina gobies my LFS does carry them and the tank temp is 78-80 degrees and they are doing great. I've been watching them for the last month to see how they were doing. I too have also heard that they are cold water fish. I may just get one instead of two so that I can get the purple Dotyback too.

As for the butterfly I know I would be pushing it bioload wise but those darn fish are cool looking. My mind still isn't made up on that one yet. I could always get rid of the chromis to make room.

Waxxiemann · 06/15/2006, 04:30 PM

It think that if you are aggressivly skimming and have a lot of flow you should be alright with all but the tang. My 2 cents.

kevin2000 · 06/15/2006, 04:59 PM

While a 75 gallon tank may look large .. its considered pretty small by most SW standards because of its inherent stocking limitations. I suggest you re-visit the "rules of stocking" since your "one inch per gallon" is probably based on FW stocking and maybe 5 times too high for SW. Further ... some fish .. including most tangs don't belong in a tank that size .. I suggest you visit some online sites like liveaquaria.com to get some insight into what they recommend as the "minimum" tank size for the fish they sell .

aquaman3680 · 06/15/2006, 05:08 PM

Hey man, found you on here too. The catalinas are doing well and they are eating mysis. I've heard that they do better in cold but their life expictancy is shorter in a tropical environment. Take out the yellow or purple out of the list add the rest and you would be fine in my opinion. How is your bule doing?
Matt

xlayedoutx · 06/15/2006, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kevin2000
While a 75 gallon tank may look large .. its considered pretty small by most SW standards because of its inherent stocking limitations. I suggest you re-visit the "rules of stocking" since your "one inch per gallon" is probably based on FW stocking and maybe 5 times too high for SW. Further ... some fish .. including most tangs don't belong in a tank that size .. I suggest you visit some online sites like liveaquaria.com to get some insight into what they recommend as the "minimum" tank size for the fish they sell .

I don't listen to the 1 inch per gallon rule thats just what I've heard. I go by my own standards and others opnions. Everywhere I've read so far has said a 75g is fine for the fish I've listed. Even the blue tang. Maybe I'm looking at the wrong sites though. Like I said before though I don't plan on keeping the blue tang untill its full grown. I'll probably sell it when its about 6-7 inches long. Also like I said a few replies up I ruled out getting another tang as the 1 blue is plenty. When I do decide to sell the blue he'll be leaving to go to a 210.

xlayedoutx · 06/15/2006, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by aquaman3680
Hey man, found you on here too. The catalinas are doing well and they are eating mysis. I've heard that they do better in cold but their life expictancy is shorter in a tropical environment. Take out the yellow or purple out of the list add the rest and you would be fine in my opinion. How is your bule doing?
Matt

Whats up Matt. Yeah the Blue is doing great. Finnaly big enough to eat some of the pellet and I still keep the seaweed in there for him too. Those turbo's are pigs though and go crazy for that seaweed.

SpaceAce · 06/15/2006, 06:03 PM

One fish is too many for some systems. You should get some good tests and make sure you are at zero levels now. Then you know your bacterial colonies are handling your waste bio-load. Add fish slowly, test and make sure the tank remains in the zero zone. See how far your nerves can go.

If you ad one too many fish you will see noticeable Nitrates but you wont be able to get the fish back out of the rocks. Thats where your bio-load limit is. Then there is the over crowding stress that the fish will be subject to. But if thats not a concern then you will find out how much is too much for your set up.... or just decide to let the fish have some private space.

aquaman3680 · 06/15/2006, 06:37 PM

I test his water his water is perfect. I use the salifert tests on all things Nitrate is in check at 0 as is nitrite and ammonia

Sk8r · 06/16/2006, 09:21 AM

Consider, too, that what makes the fish fun to watch is their natural behavior, going in and out of the rock, hunting, politicking, and courting. If you get too many fish or a fish with an adult size too large for the tank, the tension will prevent them from acting naturally. They will pace the glass, dart from one aggressor to the next, or spend all their time defending their territory, and in general not exhibit their best behaviors.

JRistau81 · 06/16/2006, 09:31 AM

Excellent point Sk8r. Scrap the copperband and tang and you'll be fine. Copperbands do not typically do well in captivityespecially in an overstocked tank.

xlayedoutx · 06/16/2006, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JRistau81
Excellent point Sk8r. Scrap the copperband and tang and you'll be fine. Copperbands do not typically do well in captivityespecially in an overstocked tank.

Yeah I guess I could always run down to the LFS and watch the copperband swim around. LOL

MCary · 06/16/2006, 10:32 AM

Stocking levels are so complicated. Even more so in saltwater. Commercial entities like to try to break down things in to simple to understand formulas. Because lets face it, most people do not have time to go out and get a marine biology degree before buying a fishtank. To determine what the stocking level is for your tank your just going to have to use your own good judgment, research and observation.

Some important things to consider:

Saltwater carries less dissolved oxygen than fresh water. You must not have more fish than can breathe in your tank.

Fish produce waste. If think your overstocked and having trouble keeping nitrates, phosphates, or algae in check then you probably are.

Agression. If timid fish cannot escape and agressive fish are too agressive.

Tank to small for normal fish activity. Darting around bumping into things and trying to jump out.

Type and quality of filters make a difference.

Husbandry practices. More frequent water changes allows more fish.

If fish need a natural food source you can overstock and wipe out their prey.

What did I forget?

Mike

snarkes · 06/16/2006, 10:41 AM

I think i'm going to jump in here since there are so many opinions coming out for the stocking numbers for the 75. I've got a 55 with a filter sock on it, turboflotor multi sl skimmer (good for up to 250g), and do weekly water changes of 20%. Do you think that I could stock the following?

- 1 false percula
- 1 shrimp goby sans pistol shrimp
- 3 chromis
- 1 flame angel
- 1 falco (dwarf) hawkfish
- 1 mandarin

I dont mean to hijack the thread... just seems like a lot of knowledgeable people on one thread.

xlayedoutx · 06/16/2006, 10:54 AM

I think I'm just going to do what spaceace said. Starting with the smaller fish I want i'll add one and monitor the levels and if they go back down to 0 then add another. And add the fish that are on my list except the second tang and copperband untill I'm either done with my list or my levels start to rise. I can always get rid of the chromis to make room.

On another note how much of an impact do shrimp add to the bioload, because I do want to end up getting a couple shrimp.

06/15/2006, 03:00 PM	#1
xlayedoutx Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Clovis Ca Posts: 383	How many fish is to many fish? So how many fish is to many fish? I know the whole 1 inch for every gallon but is that really right. If that was correct I'd be able to have 75 1 inch fish. I have a 75g and here is my fish list so far. 1 blue tang 1.5 inches 4 green chromis 2 inches each 2 false clowns 2 inches each 1 6-line wrasse 2 inches 1 diamond goby 3 inches I plan on selling the fish once they start to get to big for the tank but that won't be for awhile. Untill then I was planning on adding the following. 2 Catalina Gobies 1 inch each 1 Flame Angel 1 Purple dotyback 1 copperbanded Butterfly (maybe) 1 yellow or purple tang (maybe) Would also sell once it got bigger. Does that sound like to much. Keep in mind I do plan on selling once they get to big. I have a local buyer so the fish won't be too stressed moving again. Please let me know what you think. __________________ I may be new but I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night. Current Tank Info: 40G Breeder with built in overflow, (2) Hydra 26HD’s, (4) T5’s, BM Nac 3.5 Skimmer

06/15/2006, 03:06 PM	#3
s3aL Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Fairfield, California Posts: 847	Your bio-load seems abit high as it is. I wouldnt bother with any tangs since you are already on the high bioload side. A flame angel instead of a tang would be perfect for your size tank. Maybe another small fish or two if you "had" to add more. The Catalina Gobies are cold water fish so I would just scrap that idea. __________________ 58g oceanic (36x18x21) 36" Aquatinics 2x175w MH 2x39w T5 Deltec MCE600 3x Koralia 3's Litermeter3 Dual stage Ranco controller Matt

06/15/2006, 03:40 PM	#4
NEEDMONEYFORMORESALT Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Grove City, Ohio Posts: 420	the fresh water rule of thumb of 1 inch per gallon doesn't apply to salt water. Plus you have to factor in how many of those 75 gallons are really not there due to the displacement of the live rock. I've heard the saltwater rule (if there is even a rule) is more like around 1 inch per 6-8 gallons. __________________ Things i tell me wife that i shouldn't. (I think she's catching on) "what new coral, oh it must have spawned" "I promise, this will be the last piece of equipment I'll need" Current Tank Info: just moved and starting over

06/15/2006, 03:49 PM	#5
kevin2000 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,805	Not sure if I understand your post. You may find that buying fish to grow and sell doesn't make much sense - unfortunately the larger the fish the less marketable it tends to be ---- let alone the catching, storing, transporting etc. Basic rules still apply ... figure out what fish will do well in your current tank with your other fish .. make that determination based on their reasonable adult size. Last edited by kevin2000; 06/15/2006 at 03:59 PM.

06/15/2006, 04:30 PM	#7
Waxxiemann Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Winnipeg Posts: 2,364	It think that if you are aggressivly skimming and have a lot of flow you should be alright with all but the tang. My 2 cents. __________________ "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." Albert Einstein

06/15/2006, 03:04 PM	#2
nubomb Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 80	I think it is 1 inch for every five gallons

06/15/2006, 04:59 PM	#8
kevin2000 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,805	While a 75 gallon tank may look large .. its considered pretty small by most SW standards because of its inherent stocking limitations. I suggest you re-visit the "rules of stocking" since your "one inch per gallon" is probably based on FW stocking and maybe 5 times too high for SW. Further ... some fish .. including most tangs don't belong in a tank that size .. I suggest you visit some online sites like liveaquaria.com to get some insight into what they recommend as the "minimum" tank size for the fish they sell .

06/15/2006, 05:08 PM	#9
aquaman3680 Registered Member. Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 612	Hey man, found you on here too. The catalinas are doing well and they are eating mysis. I've heard that they do better in cold but their life expictancy is shorter in a tropical environment. Take out the yellow or purple out of the list add the rest and you would be fine in my opinion. How is your bule doing? Matt __________________ Click the red house to see my 90 gallon Road Trip! Current Tank Info: 90 gallon RR

06/15/2006, 06:03 PM	#12
SpaceAce Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 52	One fish is too many for some systems. You should get some good tests and make sure you are at zero levels now. Then you know your bacterial colonies are handling your waste bio-load. Add fish slowly, test and make sure the tank remains in the zero zone. See how far your nerves can go. If you ad one too many fish you will see noticeable Nitrates but you wont be able to get the fish back out of the rocks. Thats where your bio-load limit is. Then there is the over crowding stress that the fish will be subject to. But if thats not a concern then you will find out how much is too much for your set up.... or just decide to let the fish have some private space.

06/15/2006, 06:37 PM	#13
aquaman3680 Registered Member. Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 612	I test his water his water is perfect. I use the salifert tests on all things Nitrate is in check at 0 as is nitrite and ammonia __________________ Click the red house to see my 90 gallon Road Trip! Current Tank Info: 90 gallon RR

06/16/2006, 09:21 AM	#14
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Consider, too, that what makes the fish fun to watch is their natural behavior, going in and out of the rock, hunting, politicking, and courting. If you get too many fish or a fish with an adult size too large for the tank, the tension will prevent them from acting naturally. They will pace the glass, dart from one aggressor to the next, or spend all their time defending their territory, and in general not exhibit their best behaviors. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

06/16/2006, 09:31 AM	#15
JRistau81 Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Springfield, Illinois Posts: 264	Excellent point Sk8r. Scrap the copperband and tang and you'll be fine. Copperbands do not typically do well in captivityespecially in an overstocked tank. __________________ I like pigs. Dogs look up to us; cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals. - Winston Churchill Current Tank Info: 150 gallon, 2 Hamilton 400w 14K Metal halide, Red Sea Berlin Skimmer (Don't scoff, it works well), 150-200 lbs LR, 50 lbs LS, 100 lbs Southdown...anything else?

06/16/2006, 10:32 AM	#17
MCary Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Hardin, Montana Posts: 3,142	Stocking levels are so complicated. Even more so in saltwater. Commercial entities like to try to break down things in to simple to understand formulas. Because lets face it, most people do not have time to go out and get a marine biology degree before buying a fishtank. To determine what the stocking level is for your tank your just going to have to use your own good judgment, research and observation. Some important things to consider: Saltwater carries less dissolved oxygen than fresh water. You must not have more fish than can breathe in your tank. Fish produce waste. If think your overstocked and having trouble keeping nitrates, phosphates, or algae in check then you probably are. Agression. If timid fish cannot escape and agressive fish are too agressive. Tank to small for normal fish activity. Darting around bumping into things and trying to jump out. Type and quality of filters make a difference. Husbandry practices. More frequent water changes allows more fish. If fish need a natural food source you can overstock and wipe out their prey. What did I forget? Mike

06/16/2006, 10:41 AM	#18
snarkes Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 479	I think i'm going to jump in here since there are so many opinions coming out for the stocking numbers for the 75. I've got a 55 with a filter sock on it, turboflotor multi sl skimmer (good for up to 250g), and do weekly water changes of 20%. Do you think that I could stock the following? - 1 false percula - 1 shrimp goby sans pistol shrimp - 3 chromis - 1 flame angel - 1 falco (dwarf) hawkfish - 1 mandarin I dont mean to hijack the thread... just seems like a lot of knowledgeable people on one thread.

06/16/2006, 10:54 AM	#19
xlayedoutx Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Clovis Ca Posts: 383	I think I'm just going to do what spaceace said. Starting with the smaller fish I want i'll add one and monitor the levels and if they go back down to 0 then add another. And add the fish that are on my list except the second tang and copperband untill I'm either done with my list or my levels start to rise. I can always get rid of the chromis to make room. On another note how much of an impact do shrimp add to the bioload, because I do want to end up getting a couple shrimp. __________________ I may be new but I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night. Current Tank Info: 40G Breeder with built in overflow, (2) Hydra 26HD’s, (4) T5’s, BM Nac 3.5 Skimmer