HIGH nitrates, and brown algae

sir_dudeguy · 06/24/2006, 09:46 PM

ok, so i just got back from a 10 day trip to find my tank covered in brown algae...not cyano...it wasnt maroon or red..just a tan/brown, but everywhere...sand/rock/glass/filter return...you name it, and most likely its there...

so i was gonna go to the lfs and get some good sand sifting critters, but i found out that my nitrates were INCREDIBLY high, so i decided no critters...

i'm thinkin of doing about a 50% pwc tomorrow (gotta let the salt mix or i woulda done it today) and i'm thnking of taking out the biomedia in my filter...fluval 304...and should i take the sponge pads out too?

my 4 damsels are all looking healthy (but i think i read where nitrates arent toxic to fish...i might be wrong tho) and same with my snails/crabs/and polyps and shroom.

is there anything i can do in addition to my water changes to help my tank get back to normal?

oh and my amonia and nitrites are still reading a steady 0, and my pH actually came up too (not sure how tho lol) so thats fine.

one more question...is the brown algae a result of the high nitrates, or are the nitrates a result of the bown algae? i'm thinking that they just really built up in my filter on the biomax/sponge pads. I've got a really small fuge w/some chaeto too, and my remora skimmer should be here monday (no mail on sundays dangit!!)
do you think the skimmer will help the trate prolem?

thanks

bertoni · 06/24/2006, 10:53 PM

The nitrate levels can feed the algae, but the algae itself won't create high nitrogen levels. I wouldn't do a water change over 25% or so except in cases of emergencies. Nitrate isn't toxic to fish or snails, etc. It might cause some issues with stony corals.

Slowly reducing the bio-media in your filter is likely a good idea. The skimmer might help as well.

sir_dudeguy · 06/24/2006, 11:02 PM

ok thanks for the quick reply. so i wont do a 50% tomorrow...(i was kinda exaderating anyways lol...i've only got about 15 gal. water mixing now...its a 55 gal tank.) and i'm switching salts too...i'm going from oceanic to instant ocean. and theres no stonies, so i dont gotta worry about that.

and they arent toxic to snails and crabs and stuff? i thought they were...meh...anyways, my nitrates were at a hundred...i have NO clue how they got that high...didnt even know it could. But either way, thats quite a jump from about 5 to 100 in just 10 days isnt it?i bet overfeeding was partly the cause.

and how much would you say as far as takin out bio media? should i take out the sponge pads first? those are prolly gonna be the nastiest things in the filter, so i'll try those first do you think?

also, should i gravel vac the agae at all? or do i just leave the sand be? obviously i cant vac the rocks really, so there's still gonna be some there, but once i get my levels back down, if theres still algae i might get a conch...someone told me they were good for eating the stuff and good sand sifters (do they even go on the rock tho?)

thanks again

sir_dudeguy · 06/25/2006, 09:23 AM

bump

azrednex · 06/25/2006, 10:17 AM

it sounds like something died and decayed while you were away. I'm just a nOoB though.

sir_dudeguy · 06/25/2006, 12:01 PM

no, nothing is dead...everything is alive and looking very well still, which is weird...

bertoni · 06/25/2006, 03:49 PM

The chemistry forum has more on nitrate toxicity. It's not going to harm fish, snails, crabs, or much anything else at those levels. Stony corals might have some issues.

I would try reducing the amount of media slowly. The sponge might be a fine place to start. Over the long term, I doubt it much matters.

I probably wouldn't vacuum out the algae except in places where it forms a thick mat that's easy to get, if there are any such places.

sir_dudeguy · 06/25/2006, 04:18 PM

ok so i did my water change...just smallish one (i thought i had more salt than i did so i did about a 15%) but should i do another smallish one on like wednesday or something? I looked in the canister and it was full of crap lol. I took out the media in the top basket, and just rinsed all the loose gunk off the rest of the media. I left the sponge pads in there for now, but i'm thinkin maybe take them out next pwc...they were also filthy so i rinsed them off a bit, but they're still quite nasty lol.

so would a wednesday pwc be too soon or no? Also, this is kinda off topic, but i was at the lfs yesterday and they said that a conch would be good to eat all the algae on/in the sand...i didnt get one tho cuz my nitrates, but when i got my lr there were 2 really small snails on there that lately have been growing very fast...they're still only about a half inch or less, but thats a lot compaired to what they were about 2 weeks ago...but also, they look just like the conches at the lfs looked, so i'm thinkin they are conches...would they really eat all the brown algae in the sand? so far they go all over the tank, including the glass (which i'm not sure conches do or not) but hopefully i got a couple of good freebies w/the rock lol. So my question is, do conches also go on the glass or do they just stay in the sand? i suppose if there's enough algae on the glass he would go on the glass but idk...

thanks and srry for the novel

bertoni · 06/25/2006, 04:52 PM

Your tank is too small for a conch to do well over the long haul. Some cerith snails should be fine, though. I don't know what snails you have, but they're probably helping.

15% water changes can be done daily or even twice daily, IMO. They're a lot of work, though.

sir_dudeguy · 06/25/2006, 05:10 PM

ok thanks. i'll do one tomorrow then, and would i take out more of the media then or no? and i'll hold on the conch (unless the little guys are baby conches lol) I've got 2 nassarius and 2 turbos..the turbos never do anything really...half the time they're sleepin on the glass, and only a few hours they're awake or whatever and eating stuff off the glass.

bertoni · 06/25/2006, 10:29 PM

I would phase out the media over a period of 6 weeks or so. I would also watch for any signs of ammonia problems. The Nassarius don't eat algae, really, so the Turbo snails probably just need some help.

sir_dudeguy · 06/25/2006, 10:39 PM

so more turbos you think, once the nitrates are down? and over six weeks on the media? wow, thats a while lol. so should i not take out a full basket each time and just take out a little bit of it each time, or is it ok to take out a full basketfull, and then just dont take any out for another week or 2?

thanks

bertoni · 06/25/2006, 10:43 PM

I would add some different varieties of snails, which is why I mentioned cerith snails. Each species has a different diet. I'd just get a couple more at a time, slowly. Too many snails leads to starvation.

I'd remove the media slowly, a bit at a time, if possible. For example, with bio-balls, it's easy to remove a handful every other day or so.

sir_dudeguy · 06/26/2006, 12:07 AM

ok thanks. the media is just the biomax or whatever the fluval stuff is called..the ceramic cylinder deallies. so just take out like, half a basket every week you think? and i'm gonna try to find some ceriths too...the lfs doesnt have any but im sure someone does.

pufferpoison · 06/26/2006, 12:34 AM

if you don't have a sump / drilled tank look under the DIY for the AC110 FUGE mod and make one of them, get some cheato and kiss your nitrates goodbye.

sir_dudeguy · 06/26/2006, 07:30 AM

well, i've got a small hob fuge...its from a millenium 2000 filter, which is a little smaller than the ac...i've got chaeto in there and still got nitrates...

06/24/2006, 09:46 PM	#1
sir_dudeguy Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 10,841	HIGH nitrates, and brown algae ok, so i just got back from a 10 day trip to find my tank covered in brown algae...not cyano...it wasnt maroon or red..just a tan/brown, but everywhere...sand/rock/glass/filter return...you name it, and most likely its there... so i was gonna go to the lfs and get some good sand sifting critters, but i found out that my nitrates were INCREDIBLY high, so i decided no critters... i'm thinkin of doing about a 50% pwc tomorrow (gotta let the salt mix or i woulda done it today) and i'm thnking of taking out the biomedia in my filter...fluval 304...and should i take the sponge pads out too? my 4 damsels are all looking healthy (but i think i read where nitrates arent toxic to fish...i might be wrong tho) and same with my snails/crabs/and polyps and shroom. is there anything i can do in addition to my water changes to help my tank get back to normal? oh and my amonia and nitrites are still reading a steady 0, and my pH actually came up too (not sure how tho lol) so thats fine. one more question...is the brown algae a result of the high nitrates, or are the nitrates a result of the bown algae? i'm thinking that they just really built up in my filter on the biomax/sponge pads. I've got a really small fuge w/some chaeto too, and my remora skimmer should be here monday (no mail on sundays dangit!!) do you think the skimmer will help the trate prolem? thanks

06/24/2006, 10:53 PM	#2
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	The nitrate levels can feed the algae, but the algae itself won't create high nitrogen levels. I wouldn't do a water change over 25% or so except in cases of emergencies. Nitrate isn't toxic to fish or snails, etc. It might cause some issues with stony corals. Slowly reducing the bio-media in your filter is likely a good idea. The skimmer might help as well. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

06/24/2006, 11:02 PM	#3
sir_dudeguy Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 10,841	ok thanks for the quick reply. so i wont do a 50% tomorrow...(i was kinda exaderating anyways lol...i've only got about 15 gal. water mixing now...its a 55 gal tank.) and i'm switching salts too...i'm going from oceanic to instant ocean. and theres no stonies, so i dont gotta worry about that. and they arent toxic to snails and crabs and stuff? i thought they were...meh...anyways, my nitrates were at a hundred...i have NO clue how they got that high...didnt even know it could. But either way, thats quite a jump from about 5 to 100 in just 10 days isnt it?i bet overfeeding was partly the cause. and how much would you say as far as takin out bio media? should i take out the sponge pads first? those are prolly gonna be the nastiest things in the filter, so i'll try those first do you think? also, should i gravel vac the agae at all? or do i just leave the sand be? obviously i cant vac the rocks really, so there's still gonna be some there, but once i get my levels back down, if theres still algae i might get a conch...someone told me they were good for eating the stuff and good sand sifters (do they even go on the rock tho?) thanks again __________________ TAKE...LUCK!!!

06/25/2006, 09:23 AM	#4
sir_dudeguy Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 10,841	bump __________________ TAKE...LUCK!!!

06/25/2006, 12:01 PM	#6
sir_dudeguy Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 10,841	no, nothing is dead...everything is alive and looking very well still, which is weird... __________________ TAKE...LUCK!!!

06/25/2006, 10:17 AM	#5
azrednex Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Chandler, AZ Posts: 1,805	it sounds like something died and decayed while you were away. I'm just a nOoB though.

06/25/2006, 03:49 PM	#7
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	The chemistry forum has more on nitrate toxicity. It's not going to harm fish, snails, crabs, or much anything else at those levels. Stony corals might have some issues. I would try reducing the amount of media slowly. The sponge might be a fine place to start. Over the long term, I doubt it much matters. I probably wouldn't vacuum out the algae except in places where it forms a thick mat that's easy to get, if there are any such places. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

06/25/2006, 04:18 PM	#8
sir_dudeguy Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 10,841	ok so i did my water change...just smallish one (i thought i had more salt than i did so i did about a 15%) but should i do another smallish one on like wednesday or something? I looked in the canister and it was full of crap lol. I took out the media in the top basket, and just rinsed all the loose gunk off the rest of the media. I left the sponge pads in there for now, but i'm thinkin maybe take them out next pwc...they were also filthy so i rinsed them off a bit, but they're still quite nasty lol. so would a wednesday pwc be too soon or no? Also, this is kinda off topic, but i was at the lfs yesterday and they said that a conch would be good to eat all the algae on/in the sand...i didnt get one tho cuz my nitrates, but when i got my lr there were 2 really small snails on there that lately have been growing very fast...they're still only about a half inch or less, but thats a lot compaired to what they were about 2 weeks ago...but also, they look just like the conches at the lfs looked, so i'm thinkin they are conches...would they really eat all the brown algae in the sand? so far they go all over the tank, including the glass (which i'm not sure conches do or not) but hopefully i got a couple of good freebies w/the rock lol. So my question is, do conches also go on the glass or do they just stay in the sand? i suppose if there's enough algae on the glass he would go on the glass but idk... thanks and srry for the novel __________________ TAKE...LUCK!!!

06/25/2006, 04:52 PM	#9
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	Your tank is too small for a conch to do well over the long haul. Some cerith snails should be fine, though. I don't know what snails you have, but they're probably helping. 15% water changes can be done daily or even twice daily, IMO. They're a lot of work, though. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

06/25/2006, 05:10 PM	#10
sir_dudeguy Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 10,841	ok thanks. i'll do one tomorrow then, and would i take out more of the media then or no? and i'll hold on the conch (unless the little guys are baby conches lol) I've got 2 nassarius and 2 turbos..the turbos never do anything really...half the time they're sleepin on the glass, and only a few hours they're awake or whatever and eating stuff off the glass. __________________ TAKE...LUCK!!!

06/25/2006, 10:29 PM	#11
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	I would phase out the media over a period of 6 weeks or so. I would also watch for any signs of ammonia problems. The Nassarius don't eat algae, really, so the Turbo snails probably just need some help. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

06/25/2006, 10:39 PM	#12
sir_dudeguy Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 10,841	so more turbos you think, once the nitrates are down? and over six weeks on the media? wow, thats a while lol. so should i not take out a full basket each time and just take out a little bit of it each time, or is it ok to take out a full basketfull, and then just dont take any out for another week or 2? thanks __________________ TAKE...LUCK!!!

06/25/2006, 10:43 PM	#13
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	I would add some different varieties of snails, which is why I mentioned cerith snails. Each species has a different diet. I'd just get a couple more at a time, slowly. Too many snails leads to starvation. I'd remove the media slowly, a bit at a time, if possible. For example, with bio-balls, it's easy to remove a handful every other day or so. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

06/26/2006, 12:07 AM	#14
sir_dudeguy Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 10,841	ok thanks. the media is just the biomax or whatever the fluval stuff is called..the ceramic cylinder deallies. so just take out like, half a basket every week you think? and i'm gonna try to find some ceriths too...the lfs doesnt have any but im sure someone does. __________________ TAKE...LUCK!!!

06/26/2006, 12:34 AM	#15
pufferpoison Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: S.E. Kansas Posts: 684	if you don't have a sump / drilled tank look under the DIY for the AC110 FUGE mod and make one of them, get some cheato and kiss your nitrates goodbye. __________________ Cage goes in the water, you go in the water. Shark's in the water. Our shark Farewell and adieu to you, fair Spanish ladies. Farewell and adieu, you ladies of Spain. For we've received orders for t Current Tank Info: 65G Reef / 20 Softies / 90 Predator

06/26/2006, 07:30 AM	#16
sir_dudeguy Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 10,841	well, i've got a small hob fuge...its from a millenium 2000 filter, which is a little smaller than the ac...i've got chaeto in there and still got nitrates... __________________ TAKE...LUCK!!!