need help plumbing sump

andrewkw · 06/26/2006, 07:16 AM

I bought a premade sump for my new tank, the sump is 36x16x16. I would have asked more questions when I picked it up but I thought I knew what I needed and I could just go get pvc and be good to go however that is not the case.

I've been looking at other pictures of sumps but I'd still like someone to clarify how I should do the plumbing.

The sump was designed for to be used with an ehiem 1260 pump externally. There is an 18x10 fuge. I have not settled on a skimmer yet but will soon be getting one. I have the pump and plan on getting the pvc as soon as i figure out how much and what I need.

I've read melevsreef and I do understand what a sump is and how it works, I'm just confused when it comes to setting up my own.

heres a pic from when i first brought it home, ive since removed the plastic and tape.

thanks for the help

ERICN · 06/26/2006, 08:04 AM

Does your tank have overflows ? if not you need a overflow box run those to one side of you sump usually the largre side since this is where you will place your protien skimmer that should spill into the second compartment wich is where you can house micro algie and a light next section should be for your return pump wher you will need to return the water to the tank via PVC.

andrewkw · 06/26/2006, 08:09 AM

Yes it has overflows I know I need 1.5" pvc for the drain and 3/4" for the return.

So the return should be on the opposite side of the drain? I only have a hole drilled on one side of the sump as well as on the fuge section.

crumbletop · 06/26/2006, 08:17 AM

From that pic it looks like it has 3 compartments and a bubble trap. It looks like the drain should drain to two places -- the upper right and lower right. It looks like the upper right water flow will go through a few baffles and then into the main return chamber. It looks like the bottom right section is a fuge and drains through a bulkhead. I'm not too sure why there is a bulkhead there. It looks like the drain from the fuge and the drain from the baffles section mix in the return section of the sump. Then water goes out the lower left bulkhead to the return pump.

I suppose a skimmer goes in the left large section which will also likely release bubbles. It doesn't look like there is a baffles section to help remove some of the skimmer bubbles.

Anyway, that is the way it looks to me.

Jack

andrewkw · 06/26/2006, 08:26 AM

there is no lower left bulkhead. here is a clearer photo

If i can't figure it out I can ask the guy who built it. it's just i'm off today and really want to get things going while I have time.

If the lower bulkhead is for the drain, and the other one is for the refugium where does the return pump go? It was also reccomened I run the pump externally. Doesn't that mean there should be one more bulkhead?

crumbletop · 06/26/2006, 09:06 AM

You reversed the pic from the one above it. The bulkhead is now on the upper right of your latest pic. The drain on the new pic looks like it goes on the bottom left _and_ the top left. You said the pump was to be external, and would thus go outside of the sump near the upper right bulkhead. Again, I'm not certain what the second (internal) bulkhead is for.

Jack

crumbletop · 06/26/2006, 09:11 AM

One way it could work (but only with a modification) would be to have the drain come in to the upper (inner) bulkhead -- flowing into the upper left chamber (second picture). Then if you cut off some of the acrylic so that it would drain into the extreme lower left chamber all the water would go to the top left, to the bottom left, through the bubble traps, into the large right chamber and out the lower bulkhead to the return pump. This would allow you to put your skimmer into the upper left chamber and get the benefit of having it skim tank water. You'd lose your fuge if you did that, though. I'm not certain how the design of that sump is supposed to work...

Jack

andrewkw · 06/26/2006, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by crumbletop
You reversed the pic from the one above it. The bulkhead is now on the upper right of your latest pic. The drain on the new pic looks like it goes on the bottom left _and_ the top left. You said the pump was to be external, and would thus go outside of the sump near the upper right bulkhead. Again, I'm not certain what the second (internal) bulkhead is for.

Jack

oops sorry, I didn't even realize that.

anyway I think i've got it take a look

*EDIT okay the pic is obviously wrong since water won't flow up

the red is the pvc which would obviosuly connect in real life but this is just a crude drawing.

crumbletop · 06/26/2006, 09:24 AM

No the pump should be connected to the lowest bulkhead on the outside of the tank.

Jack

andrewkw · 06/26/2006, 09:32 AM

like this :

i don't know why this is giving me so much trouble, i never thought i wouldn't be able to figure something so simple out

crumbletop · 06/26/2006, 09:59 AM

You have the return pump right now, but you don't want your drain going right into the same chamber that feeds the return pump or you will just be sending the "dirty" water right back up to the tank.

One way to think of it is to have the return pump like you show above except have it going directly to the tank (no T). Then split the drain and have it go to both the upper left and lower left. Put a ball valve on the upper left pipes to control the flow going to this "fuge" section. The fuge section would drain out of the bulkhead. The lower left section is where the bubble traps are and is where the bulk of your return flow should go. You can then put your skimmer in the big right section. Does that make sense? I'm not sure if that is how it is designed to work, but that is the best I can come up with seeing the design.

Jack

andrewkw · 06/26/2006, 10:36 AM

okay i'm going to move the drain to the other side and leave everything else the way it is. I'm pretty sure this is the right way. Now I just need to get my pvc and slowly fill up my tank (the ro unit i have only makes 24 gallons a day as I bought it when I only had a 15g tank).

thanks for all the help

crumbletop · 06/26/2006, 11:06 AM

No problem. Regarding your RO/DI -- get a float valve and install it in a rubbermaid bin or 5 gallon bucket. If your RO/DI has an auto shutoff valve, the float valve will allow you to make water unattended so you can always have a fresh supply of water.

I just got a float valve (an extra one for my auto topoff resevoir) from a home brew supply store in town here. It takes the standard 1/4" RO tubing.

Jack

06/26/2006, 07:16 AM	#1
andrewkw Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: St. Joseph Island Posts: 1,069	need help plumbing sump I bought a premade sump for my new tank, the sump is 36x16x16. I would have asked more questions when I picked it up but I thought I knew what I needed and I could just go get pvc and be good to go however that is not the case. I've been looking at other pictures of sumps but I'd still like someone to clarify how I should do the plumbing. The sump was designed for to be used with an ehiem 1260 pump externally. There is an 18x10 fuge. I have not settled on a skimmer yet but will soon be getting one. I have the pump and plan on getting the pvc as soon as i figure out how much and what I need. I've read melevsreef and I do understand what a sump is and how it works, I'm just confused when it comes to setting up my own. heres a pic from when i first brought it home, ive since removed the plastic and tape. thanks for the help

06/26/2006, 08:17 AM	#4
crumbletop Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 4,718	From that pic it looks like it has 3 compartments and a bubble trap. It looks like the drain should drain to two places -- the upper right and lower right. It looks like the upper right water flow will go through a few baffles and then into the main return chamber. It looks like the bottom right section is a fuge and drains through a bulkhead. I'm not too sure why there is a bulkhead there. It looks like the drain from the fuge and the drain from the baffles section mix in the return section of the sump. Then water goes out the lower left bulkhead to the return pump. I suppose a skimmer goes in the left large section which will also likely release bubbles. It doesn't look like there is a baffles section to help remove some of the skimmer bubbles. Anyway, that is the way it looks to me. Jack __________________ "Misers get up early in the morning; and burglars, I am informed, get up the night before." - GK Chesterton Current Tank Info: 90 gallon AGA RR. 20 gal sump. 6x54W T5. AquaController Jr.

06/26/2006, 09:06 AM	#6
crumbletop Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 4,718	You reversed the pic from the one above it. The bulkhead is now on the upper right of your latest pic. The drain on the new pic looks like it goes on the bottom left _and_ the top left. You said the pump was to be external, and would thus go outside of the sump near the upper right bulkhead. Again, I'm not certain what the second (internal) bulkhead is for. Jack __________________ "Misers get up early in the morning; and burglars, I am informed, get up the night before." - GK Chesterton Current Tank Info: 90 gallon AGA RR. 20 gal sump. 6x54W T5. AquaController Jr.

06/26/2006, 09:11 AM	#7
crumbletop Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 4,718	One way it could work (but only with a modification) would be to have the drain come in to the upper (inner) bulkhead -- flowing into the upper left chamber (second picture). Then if you cut off some of the acrylic so that it would drain into the extreme lower left chamber all the water would go to the top left, to the bottom left, through the bubble traps, into the large right chamber and out the lower bulkhead to the return pump. This would allow you to put your skimmer into the upper left chamber and get the benefit of having it skim tank water. You'd lose your fuge if you did that, though. I'm not certain how the design of that sump is supposed to work... Jack __________________ "Misers get up early in the morning; and burglars, I am informed, get up the night before." - GK Chesterton Current Tank Info: 90 gallon AGA RR. 20 gal sump. 6x54W T5. AquaController Jr.

06/26/2006, 09:24 AM	#9
crumbletop Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 4,718	No the pump should be connected to the lowest bulkhead on the outside of the tank. Jack __________________ "Misers get up early in the morning; and burglars, I am informed, get up the night before." - GK Chesterton Current Tank Info: 90 gallon AGA RR. 20 gal sump. 6x54W T5. AquaController Jr.

06/26/2006, 08:04 AM	#2
ERICN Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: MISSOURI Posts: 310	Does your tank have overflows ? if not you need a overflow box run those to one side of you sump usually the largre side since this is where you will place your protien skimmer that should spill into the second compartment wich is where you can house micro algie and a light next section should be for your return pump wher you will need to return the water to the tank via PVC.

06/26/2006, 08:09 AM	#3
andrewkw Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: St. Joseph Island Posts: 1,069	Yes it has overflows I know I need 1.5" pvc for the drain and 3/4" for the return. So the return should be on the opposite side of the drain? I only have a hole drilled on one side of the sump as well as on the fuge section.

06/26/2006, 08:26 AM	#5
andrewkw Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: St. Joseph Island Posts: 1,069	there is no lower left bulkhead. here is a clearer photo If i can't figure it out I can ask the guy who built it. it's just i'm off today and really want to get things going while I have time. If the lower bulkhead is for the drain, and the other one is for the refugium where does the return pump go? It was also reccomened I run the pump externally. Doesn't that mean there should be one more bulkhead?

06/26/2006, 09:32 AM	#10
andrewkw Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: St. Joseph Island Posts: 1,069	like this : i don't know why this is giving me so much trouble, i never thought i wouldn't be able to figure something so simple out

06/26/2006, 09:59 AM	#11
crumbletop Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 4,718	You have the return pump right now, but you don't want your drain going right into the same chamber that feeds the return pump or you will just be sending the "dirty" water right back up to the tank. One way to think of it is to have the return pump like you show above except have it going directly to the tank (no T). Then split the drain and have it go to both the upper left and lower left. Put a ball valve on the upper left pipes to control the flow going to this "fuge" section. The fuge section would drain out of the bulkhead. The lower left section is where the bubble traps are and is where the bulk of your return flow should go. You can then put your skimmer in the big right section. Does that make sense? I'm not sure if that is how it is designed to work, but that is the best I can come up with seeing the design. Jack __________________ "Misers get up early in the morning; and burglars, I am informed, get up the night before." - GK Chesterton Current Tank Info: 90 gallon AGA RR. 20 gal sump. 6x54W T5. AquaController Jr.

06/26/2006, 10:36 AM	#12
andrewkw Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: St. Joseph Island Posts: 1,069	okay i'm going to move the drain to the other side and leave everything else the way it is. I'm pretty sure this is the right way. Now I just need to get my pvc and slowly fill up my tank (the ro unit i have only makes 24 gallons a day as I bought it when I only had a 15g tank). thanks for all the help

06/26/2006, 11:06 AM	#13
crumbletop Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 4,718	No problem. Regarding your RO/DI -- get a float valve and install it in a rubbermaid bin or 5 gallon bucket. If your RO/DI has an auto shutoff valve, the float valve will allow you to make water unattended so you can always have a fresh supply of water. I just got a float valve (an extra one for my auto topoff resevoir) from a home brew supply store in town here. It takes the standard 1/4" RO tubing. Jack __________________ "Misers get up early in the morning; and burglars, I am informed, get up the night before." - GK Chesterton Current Tank Info: 90 gallon AGA RR. 20 gal sump. 6x54W T5. AquaController Jr.