is it normal for nitrates to be zero after 2 years of no water change?

betteroblivion · 07/03/2006, 06:59 PM

I havn't changed water in forever. I only use my protein skimmer and a little carbon. I also went on vacation for 2 months and didn't do either kind of filter matience (only got someone to kill the tank with freshwater)

Do I just have kick *** biological filtration?

I have purple tang, 5 clownfish, 1 blennie, and a blue starfish

in a 55G

lpkirby · 07/03/2006, 07:28 PM

Just lucky i guess...

scrmbld33 · 07/03/2006, 07:33 PM

i dont think its normal, id suspect maybe your test kit is off, id do a good water change soon

AIMFish · 07/03/2006, 07:43 PM

Any algae growing in there? I was thinking that or you've got some anaerobic areas in there

lessans · 07/03/2006, 07:44 PM

Are you growing any macroalgae?

baja_01 · 07/03/2006, 07:51 PM

Unless the test kit is bad, then nothing is wrong. Water changes aren't a must do thing, but you have to be careful to keep things in balance.

thor32766 · 07/03/2006, 08:00 PM

this isnt the first time i have seen something like this, i just had a buddy tell me since hurricane charile came through he hasnt changed water since then. that was 2 and a half years ago. his tank is gorgeous. just thought i would share it.

betteroblivion · 07/03/2006, 08:50 PM

yeah my water is crysal clear from all angels. I did have hair algae, but after a year that went away (today is the 3 year mark on my tank)

And I have used 3 test kits and gotten to fish store to test it.

I have no macro algae, excepet the bubble algae. (its just a little, and my tang eats it, also I had a trigger and it ate the hell out of them)

My coral is also doing well.

LBCBJ · 07/03/2006, 09:06 PM

I've experimented with the no water change route, after about 3 years I thought I was on to something, another year rolled around and my entire tank crashed. I now to 15% weekly. The no water change route simply isnt possible for long periods of time. Even if your nitrates are zero, you have extreme build up of other elements.

betteroblivion · 07/04/2006, 12:08 AM

how does it crash? Like instantly or do you slowly see an increase in nitrates? Or does everything just die?

I could do a 5G bucket weekly, that wouldn't be as hard as getting the trashcans out lol.

benray4fun · 07/04/2006, 01:18 AM

I've heard of people having tanks with no water changes for over a decade and never had problems, although they don't advise it. They always caution about knowing what you're doing and experience..."not for beginners."

Most tanks that crash usually have deep sand beds (dsb) that are not properly maintained and/or tight lids/glass canopies that obstruct proper gas exchange and it fails to complete the nitrogen cycle (breath)..."turning nitrates into harmless gas."

Same thing happens when you over stock and/or feed... the bioload over burdens the filtering capacity and the inhabitants slowly suffocate and/or develope disease(s).

It's just like baja said, "you have to keep it balanced."

Sk8r · 07/04/2006, 09:34 AM

Nitrates aren't the only item in play in the water changes.

I always have 0 nitrates, because I have a huge lot of inverts and a good biological base. I think this might go on a long time in stability if I didn't change out water.

But the salt replaces trace elements. Magnesium stabilizes your calcium-alkalinity balance, and without it, your alkalinity can drop, calcium can drop, and ph can fall. Calcium is necessary for movement and muscle function, bone and shell building. It will dissolve out of old shell and substrate, but I'm suspecting what helps it do that is low alk, which means acid water, and at a certain point it runs out of resources to continue getting calcium from that source. There are also: iodine, which helps some inverts shed shell and even move; strontium, iron, etc. So the longer you don't do water changes, the longer these elements aren't getting replenished, and the tank gets harder and harder to live in comfortably. I do 10 g a week in most weeks.

bllfish · 07/04/2006, 08:00 PM

If you do a water change, make it a very small one. You do not want a drastic change in your parameters. You will have to acclimate everything in the tank to new water.

archie1709 · 07/04/2006, 09:31 PM

Yikes. I haven't changed my water in three months. I better start doing that this week. I've just been busy and have been doing a lazy route (Purple Up and Kent Coral Builder for hardness).

There's definitely no substituting a good old partial water change.

Serioussnaps · 07/05/2006, 07:22 PM

Its likely your test kit is done for.

benray4fun · 07/06/2006, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sk8r
Nitrates aren't the only item in play in the water changes.

I always have 0 nitrates, because I have a huge lot of inverts and a good biological base. I think this might go on a long time in stability if I didn't change out water.

But the salt replaces trace elements. Magnesium stabilizes your calcium-alkalinity balance, and without it, your alkalinity can drop, calcium can drop, and ph can fall. Calcium is necessary for movement and muscle function, bone and shell building. It will dissolve out of old shell and substrate, but I'm suspecting what helps it do that is low alk, which means acid water, and at a certain point it runs out of resources to continue getting calcium from that source. There are also: iodine, which helps some inverts shed shell and even move; strontium, iron, etc. So the longer you don't do water changes, the longer these elements aren't getting replenished, and the tank gets harder and harder to live in comfortably. I do 10 g a week in most weeks.

Most if not all trace elements are replaced when you feed the inhabitants if you're feeding different frozen foods and hopefully not
just flakes as most beginners.
That's how these old schoolers have done it for so long without water changes, they've found the balance point for their tanks, live stock...etc.
You're right it's not just nitrates, it's also phosphates...etc., but the macro exports most of these impurities continuously as it grows along with prunning and we'll kept dsb will complete the nitrogen cycle.
The biggest reasons for failure, disease and death is simply over feeding and/or overload...

LBCBJ · 07/06/2006, 11:22 AM

Fish foods do not contain trace elements

benray4fun · 07/06/2006, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LBCBJ
Fish foods do not contain trace elements

vitamins and minerals are in the preservatives...

07/03/2006, 06:59 PM	#1
betteroblivion Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 44	is it normal for nitrates to be zero after 2 years of no water change? I havn't changed water in forever. I only use my protein skimmer and a little carbon. I also went on vacation for 2 months and didn't do either kind of filter matience (only got someone to kill the tank with freshwater) Do I just have kick *** biological filtration? I have purple tang, 5 clownfish, 1 blennie, and a blue starfish in a 55G

07/03/2006, 07:33 PM	#3
scrmbld33 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: south jersey 08050 Posts: 2,394	i dont think its normal, id suspect maybe your test kit is off, id do a good water change soon __________________ a left over shrimp shedding is not "a sicilian message meaning luca brasi sleeps with the fishes" fish are friends, not food Current Tank Info: 90gal salt, 2 250mh 14k hamiltons 2 110 actinic, 127lbs LR,50lbs tonga 70lbs indonesia 7lbs tonga branch asm g3

07/03/2006, 07:44 PM	#5
lessans Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Decatur, GA Posts: 913	Are you growing any macroalgae? __________________ "Oh, Mother, I come baring a gift. I'll give you a hint. It's in my diaper and it's not a toaster" -Stewie Griffin Current Tank Info: current tank: 20 gal reef; former tanks: 65 gal reef, 10 gal freshwater

07/03/2006, 07:51 PM	#6
baja_01 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: AZ,USA Posts: 887	Unless the test kit is bad, then nothing is wrong. Water changes aren't a must do thing, but you have to be careful to keep things in balance. __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

07/03/2006, 08:00 PM	#7
thor32766 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Chuluota, FL Posts: 6,072	this isnt the first time i have seen something like this, i just had a buddy tell me since hurricane charile came through he hasnt changed water since then. that was 2 and a half years ago. his tank is gorgeous. just thought i would share it. __________________ "Live your life so no one has to lie about who you were at your funeral" click on my red house to see my tang compound! Current Tank Info: 29 gallon in Wall!

07/03/2006, 07:28 PM	#2
lpkirby Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Hempstead, TX Posts: 701	Just lucky i guess...

07/03/2006, 07:43 PM	#4
AIMFish Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Marion,IN Posts: 1,129	Any algae growing in there? I was thinking that or you've got some anaerobic areas in there

07/03/2006, 08:50 PM	#8
betteroblivion Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 44	yeah my water is crysal clear from all angels. I did have hair algae, but after a year that went away (today is the 3 year mark on my tank) And I have used 3 test kits and gotten to fish store to test it. I have no macro algae, excepet the bubble algae. (its just a little, and my tang eats it, also I had a trigger and it ate the hell out of them) My coral is also doing well.

07/03/2006, 09:06 PM	#9
LBCBJ Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Richmond, Va Posts: 1,332	I've experimented with the no water change route, after about 3 years I thought I was on to something, another year rolled around and my entire tank crashed. I now to 15% weekly. The no water change route simply isnt possible for long periods of time. Even if your nitrates are zero, you have extreme build up of other elements. __________________ Brent

07/04/2006, 12:08 AM	#10
betteroblivion Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 44	how does it crash? Like instantly or do you slowly see an increase in nitrates? Or does everything just die? I could do a 5G bucket weekly, that wouldn't be as hard as getting the trashcans out lol.

07/04/2006, 01:18 AM	#11
benray4fun Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hartford, CONNECTICUT Posts: 1,147	I've heard of people having tanks with no water changes for over a decade and never had problems, although they don't advise it. They always caution about knowing what you're doing and experience..."not for beginners." Most tanks that crash usually have deep sand beds (dsb) that are not properly maintained and/or tight lids/glass canopies that obstruct proper gas exchange and it fails to complete the nitrogen cycle (breath)..."turning nitrates into harmless gas." Same thing happens when you over stock and/or feed... the bioload over burdens the filtering capacity and the inhabitants slowly suffocate and/or develope disease(s). It's just like baja said, "you have to keep it balanced."

07/04/2006, 09:34 AM	#12
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Nitrates aren't the only item in play in the water changes. I always have 0 nitrates, because I have a huge lot of inverts and a good biological base. I think this might go on a long time in stability if I didn't change out water. But the salt replaces trace elements. Magnesium stabilizes your calcium-alkalinity balance, and without it, your alkalinity can drop, calcium can drop, and ph can fall. Calcium is necessary for movement and muscle function, bone and shell building. It will dissolve out of old shell and substrate, but I'm suspecting what helps it do that is low alk, which means acid water, and at a certain point it runs out of resources to continue getting calcium from that source. There are also: iodine, which helps some inverts shed shell and even move; strontium, iron, etc. So the longer you don't do water changes, the longer these elements aren't getting replenished, and the tank gets harder and harder to live in comfortably. I do 10 g a week in most weeks. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

07/04/2006, 08:00 PM	#13
bllfish Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Stuart, Florida Posts: 1,818	If you do a water change, make it a very small one. You do not want a drastic change in your parameters. You will have to acclimate everything in the tank to new water. __________________ "I fish by myself because lots of people don't like me, and the ones that do like me, well, I don't want them to know my spots." ><)))))*>--- Current Tank Info: 72 bow, 36" stand, 4 54W T5, vantec stealth fans, eheim 1260, mj 1200 & 2 Koralia #1 to WaveMaster Pro, CPR 24" Aquafuge HOB & 7100K PC, JBJ Arctica chiller, LiterMeter III

07/04/2006, 09:31 PM	#14
archie1709 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 401	Yikes. I haven't changed my water in three months. I better start doing that this week. I've just been busy and have been doing a lazy route (Purple Up and Kent Coral Builder for hardness). There's definitely no substituting a good old partial water change.

07/05/2006, 07:22 PM	#15
Serioussnaps Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,703	Its likely your test kit is done for.

07/06/2006, 11:22 AM	#17
LBCBJ Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Richmond, Va Posts: 1,332	Fish foods do not contain trace elements __________________ Brent