The quick and easy SE vs DE answer? - Page 2

bertoni · 07/13/2006, 03:31 PM

I can't comment on the Phoenix 14k bulbs because I haven't used them. I've used 150 W Hamilton DE bulbs, which so far seem inferior the the SE I4,000 K Iwasaki bulbs, although I haven't had the Iwasaki bulbs very long yet. My DE bulbs lasted maybe a year, with significant output loss. That's on a Hamilton ballast designed for DE bulbs.

I do agree that without a good reflector, a lot of the bulb's output is lost. There are good reflectors for DE and SE bulbs, though, so I don't think that's a major factor.

I also agree that PAR can easily be overrated. Many corals don't do well with bright light, and other corals also can reach saturation, such that more light doesn't harm them, but doesn't add any growth. Furthermore, the most important characteristic of the lighting really is how well the aquarist likes the looks. There are lots of bulbs that will sustain corals.

Those points also play into the HQ-vs-E-ballast debates. The HQI might produce more PAR, but the corals might not much care. If the tank has lots of Acropora, though, the different ballasts might be very important. There's just too many options.

Personally, I'm not as picky about the various colors of the bulbs as other people seem to be. I tried 10,000, 14,000, and 20,000 K Hamilton bulbs, and liked them all, as far as spectrum. I like the 14,000 K Iwasaki bulbs, too. You might be pickier. The only person who can decide the right bulbs for your tank is you.

hahnmeister · 07/13/2006, 04:00 PM

14,000K Iwasaki bulbs? I knew Ushio came out with one...but I didnt know Iwasaki did. Thats good to know. I doubt many bulbs stack up like the pheonix does though. I hate to sound like such a 'fanboy', but they seem to last long, have a good color (personal pref of course, but its considered a bulb that you dont need supplimental blue for), and have an output that is higher than a Ushio 10,000K DE. Kinda hard to beat that.

I too have a 14,000K Hamilton...but a 400watter. I like the look as well...though it looks whiter than its 250watt cousin.

If you like the 14,000K Iwasaki, and 20,000K Hammy, I would suggest the EVC 20,000K. Its a killer looking bulb. I consider it among the best 20,000Ks right up there with the Aqualine (well, the AB is an oddball of the 20,000Ks....a true 20,000K would be more like the XMs...but the output blows).

PrangeWay · 07/14/2006, 08:23 AM

Quick note after using both DE & SE (on to something differnet now), I'd get DE if I'm buying an integrated hood, or SE if it's going to be pendant or retro-fit. Everything has it's strength and weakness's try not to get sucked up into the whole "I have this and it is l33t" mindset.

The Phx DE was nice, but does tend to give a washed out look. The 175 Iwasaki 14k SE puts out PAR like a 250, I really want to try it someday. The best looking I've had has been the old reliable 10k XM and VHO's

hahnmeister · 07/14/2006, 09:44 AM

I dont like 10,000Ks and actinics myself. If you look at the spectrum of a 10,000K bulb, it has lots of actinic already (and 6500K has even more)...so supplimenting with more 420nm actinic gives the tank an 'imbalanced look' of daylight and purple that used to leave me wondering what was missing. 10,000Ks and 6500Ks have more actinic than 20,000Ks...its just all the other spectrums that cover it up.

Then I figured it out. 10,000Ks dont need actinic, they need blue/450nm bulbs to make that blue look as you get deeper in the ocean. This is why 20,000Ks look so cool... Besides, the output of blue+ bulbs is many times greater than your usual actinic bulb...so its much easier to get a nice effect with less watts.

The best looking setups I see ate MH + T5, where the T5s arent actinic, (ok, maybe some), but mostly blue+ / 450nm bulbs. This gives the tank a nice ocean look, and covers up the 'yellow' you might have in a 10,000K...much better than actinics do.

JMO.

07/13/2006, 03:31 PM	#26
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	I can't comment on the Phoenix 14k bulbs because I haven't used them. I've used 150 W Hamilton DE bulbs, which so far seem inferior the the SE I4,000 K Iwasaki bulbs, although I haven't had the Iwasaki bulbs very long yet. My DE bulbs lasted maybe a year, with significant output loss. That's on a Hamilton ballast designed for DE bulbs. I do agree that without a good reflector, a lot of the bulb's output is lost. There are good reflectors for DE and SE bulbs, though, so I don't think that's a major factor. I also agree that PAR can easily be overrated. Many corals don't do well with bright light, and other corals also can reach saturation, such that more light doesn't harm them, but doesn't add any growth. Furthermore, the most important characteristic of the lighting really is how well the aquarist likes the looks. There are lots of bulbs that will sustain corals. Those points also play into the HQ-vs-E-ballast debates. The HQI might produce more PAR, but the corals might not much care. If the tank has lots of Acropora, though, the different ballasts might be very important. There's just too many options. Personally, I'm not as picky about the various colors of the bulbs as other people seem to be. I tried 10,000, 14,000, and 20,000 K Hamilton bulbs, and liked them all, as far as spectrum. I like the 14,000 K Iwasaki bulbs, too. You might be pickier. The only person who can decide the right bulbs for your tank is you. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

07/14/2006, 08:23 AM	#28
PrangeWay Duke of Monte Fisto Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 722	Quick note after using both DE & SE (on to something differnet now), I'd get DE if I'm buying an integrated hood, or SE if it's going to be pendant or retro-fit. Everything has it's strength and weakness's try not to get sucked up into the whole "I have this and it is l33t" mindset. The Phx DE was nice, but does tend to give a washed out look. The 175 Iwasaki 14k SE puts out PAR like a 250, I really want to try it someday. The best looking I've had has been the old reliable 10k XM and VHO's __________________ Dumbest Quotes Ever..... "Great color, great growth" closely followed by "all water parameters fine"

07/13/2006, 04:00 PM	#27
hahnmeister Moved On Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Brew City, WI Posts: 10,156	14,000K Iwasaki bulbs? I knew Ushio came out with one...but I didnt know Iwasaki did. Thats good to know. I doubt many bulbs stack up like the pheonix does though. I hate to sound like such a 'fanboy', but they seem to last long, have a good color (personal pref of course, but its considered a bulb that you dont need supplimental blue for), and have an output that is higher than a Ushio 10,000K DE. Kinda hard to beat that. I too have a 14,000K Hamilton...but a 400watter. I like the look as well...though it looks whiter than its 250watt cousin. If you like the 14,000K Iwasaki, and 20,000K Hammy, I would suggest the EVC 20,000K. Its a killer looking bulb. I consider it among the best 20,000Ks right up there with the Aqualine (well, the AB is an oddball of the 20,000Ks....a true 20,000K would be more like the XMs...but the output blows).

07/14/2006, 09:44 AM	#29
hahnmeister Moved On Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Brew City, WI Posts: 10,156	I dont like 10,000Ks and actinics myself. If you look at the spectrum of a 10,000K bulb, it has lots of actinic already (and 6500K has even more)...so supplimenting with more 420nm actinic gives the tank an 'imbalanced look' of daylight and purple that used to leave me wondering what was missing. 10,000Ks and 6500Ks have more actinic than 20,000Ks...its just all the other spectrums that cover it up. Then I figured it out. 10,000Ks dont need actinic, they need blue/450nm bulbs to make that blue look as you get deeper in the ocean. This is why 20,000Ks look so cool... Besides, the output of blue+ bulbs is many times greater than your usual actinic bulb...so its much easier to get a nice effect with less watts. The best looking setups I see ate MH + T5, where the T5s arent actinic, (ok, maybe some), but mostly blue+ / 450nm bulbs. This gives the tank a nice ocean look, and covers up the 'yellow' you might have in a 10,000K...much better than actinics do. JMO.