Plan for sump / need advice - Page 2

jsc4354 · 07/20/2006, 07:41 PM

I hear ya, I thought about it afterwards and the way I look at it is... Either way its gonna make it through both the fuge and skimmer before it makes it back to the main tank. So, it doesn't really matter

John C.

BrainBandAid · 07/20/2006, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MJAnderson
That's a good bit of flow through your fuge (and your sump in general). I've heard some people say that macro algae likes to be tumbled around but I think your pods prefer it more calm. Typical is 3-5x volume through the sump and less in the fuge (which is why people T and ball valve the pvc so they can control the fuge flow). The Mag 9.5 might be a bit much.

Check out www.melevsreef.com for some sump plans.

I couldn't find an answer to this question, even on melevs awsome site... Is there a proper amount of flow through a fuge? I would think you would have to take into account what is growing in there, sand bed flow requirements, etc.

Is that 3-5x volume through the sump main tank volume or sump volume? (per hour I assume?)

According to this link, a 125 gallon tank would require about 100gph through a traditional skimmer, which would technically filter all the water in the tank twice a day. So basically, if you go by this figure, the remaining return pump capacity should be your desired flow through the refugium plus any head/friction loss.
This assumes no other equipment, of course (calcium, phosban, etc.)

I'm starting to think excessive flow through a sump/fuge is a common, unknown(?) problem? People getting caught up in "bigger-is-better".

Excuse my newbness here...

jerehmy · 07/21/2006, 10:57 AM

you can have 100 GPH or 600GPH through the sump and the fuge needs enough flow to keep the water moving just enough to stop it from going stagnant.

Some people have high flow in the fuge and some have low flow it only matters on how many pods you want in the fuge and if you have sand, you need a lower flow so theirs no sand storm.

Long story short is don't matter-

A higher flow will cause more bubbles but if you use a filter sock on the overflow then almost if not all the bubbles will be elimanated

I figure a higher flow is better because theirs more water movement and that helps with gas exchange and keeps the water a little cooler, also with the filtrer sock the high turnover rate helps keep the water that much more filtered

jsc4354 · 07/22/2006, 12:37 PM

Ok, so i'm putting the sump together and would like to know what you think... So far I have added the three baffles on the right but do not know where to put the baffle on the left which separates the refug and return section.

Here's what I am thinking...

Return section: 6" or 8"
Refugium: 12" or 10"

There reason I can't figure out what size to make the return section is because I am unable to find out the answers to these questions below...

1.How can I determine the amount of time before needing to add more water cause of evap?
2. The amount of max water contained in return section?
3.How much backflow space is required if the return pump shuts off?

If there is a link which will tell me how-to figure this stuff out. Please don't be greedy.

Thx,
John C.

jsc4354 · 07/25/2006, 01:18 PM

Bump...

Ok, whats it gonna be?

Return section: 6" or 8"
Refugium: 12" or 10"

Thx,
John C.

MJAnderson · 07/25/2006, 01:30 PM

1) depends on your evaporation. It's a case by case basis. I lose 1-1.5g per day on my 72g

2) LxWxH/231 = gallons of water. But remember, your pump intake isn't on the bottom. If your sump is 12" wide, you will have a max of 4.7g in the return at 6x15x12. You will need an auto-topoff unless you want to add water daily.

3) Its on the home page http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/sump.php

MJAnderson · 07/25/2006, 01:35 PM

As for flow rates, opinions vary. I think the "norm" they say is 3x5 times display volume. Some people run 20x, others 2x.

I like low flow. Pumping water 5' in the air is an inefficient way of getting flow in my tank. I can use less electricity and generate less heat with low sump flow and use powerheads in the tank (or a CL) to get the flow I need in the tank. Running 600gph through a skimmer section that only utilizes 100gph seems a waste.

jsc4354 · 07/25/2006, 02:05 PM

I need a bigger sump already? I haven't even setup the tank yet.

Thanks for the info but I do not have an auto top off system. So, my only option would be to make the return section a bit larger to be on the safe side.

I really wish I had a bigger refugium though...

John C.

jsc4354 · 07/25/2006, 03:23 PM

Ok, I thought about it and this is the only way to get a bigger refugium cheaply. Let me know if this can be done with a hob overflow from the refugium to the return section.

Thx,
John C.

MJAnderson · 07/25/2006, 06:20 PM

Honestly before you go through all that I would go the top off route. Very helpful for dosing kalk water (which you probably will want to do sooner or later). Even if it's just a bucket and dosing pump for now and you pretty it up later you will appreciate it. All that extra plumbing is a pain and adds to your chances of a flood with the HOB. Plus once you get the ATO you will have extra room in your sump and unless you can get yours in and out of your stand, it will be wasted.

07/21/2006, 10:57 AM	#28
jerehmy Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: san diego Posts: 511	you can have 100 GPH or 600GPH through the sump and the fuge needs enough flow to keep the water moving just enough to stop it from going stagnant. Some people have high flow in the fuge and some have low flow it only matters on how many pods you want in the fuge and if you have sand, you need a lower flow so theirs no sand storm. Long story short is don't matter- A higher flow will cause more bubbles but if you use a filter sock on the overflow then almost if not all the bubbles will be elimanated I figure a higher flow is better because theirs more water movement and that helps with gas exchange and keeps the water a little cooler, also with the filtrer sock the high turnover rate helps keep the water that much more filtered __________________ Fish are the best medecine for body and mind Current Tank Info: 55g, 40g, 29gx2, 60g, 10g African Cichlids (Breeders) 40g SW Reef with a 20g sump/refugium 75lbs prime LR Mag 9.5 SCWD and Remora skimmer, 2x96w PC's

07/20/2006, 07:41 PM	#26
jsc4354 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Boynton Beach, FL Posts: 170	I hear ya, I thought about it afterwards and the way I look at it is... Either way its gonna make it through both the fuge and skimmer before it makes it back to the main tank. So, it doesn't really matter John C.

07/22/2006, 12:37 PM	#29
jsc4354 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Boynton Beach, FL Posts: 170	Ok, so i'm putting the sump together and would like to know what you think... So far I have added the three baffles on the right but do not know where to put the baffle on the left which separates the refug and return section. Here's what I am thinking... Return section: 6" or 8" Refugium: 12" or 10" There reason I can't figure out what size to make the return section is because I am unable to find out the answers to these questions below... 1.How can I determine the amount of time before needing to add more water cause of evap? 2. The amount of max water contained in return section? 3.How much backflow space is required if the return pump shuts off? If there is a link which will tell me how-to figure this stuff out. Please don't be greedy. Thx, John C.

07/25/2006, 01:18 PM	#30
jsc4354 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Boynton Beach, FL Posts: 170	Bump... Ok, whats it gonna be? Return section: 6" or 8" Refugium: 12" or 10" Thx, John C.

07/25/2006, 01:30 PM	#31
MJAnderson Premium Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: East Bay, CA Posts: 2,633	1) depends on your evaporation. It's a case by case basis. I lose 1-1.5g per day on my 72g 2) LxWxH/231 = gallons of water. But remember, your pump intake isn't on the bottom. If your sump is 12" wide, you will have a max of 4.7g in the return at 6x15x12. You will need an auto-topoff unless you want to add water daily. 3) Its on the home page http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/sump.php

07/25/2006, 01:35 PM	#32
MJAnderson Premium Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: East Bay, CA Posts: 2,633	As for flow rates, opinions vary. I think the "norm" they say is 3x5 times display volume. Some people run 20x, others 2x. I like low flow. Pumping water 5' in the air is an inefficient way of getting flow in my tank. I can use less electricity and generate less heat with low sump flow and use powerheads in the tank (or a CL) to get the flow I need in the tank. Running 600gph through a skimmer section that only utilizes 100gph seems a waste.

07/25/2006, 02:05 PM	#33
jsc4354 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Boynton Beach, FL Posts: 170	I need a bigger sump already? I haven't even setup the tank yet. Thanks for the info but I do not have an auto top off system. So, my only option would be to make the return section a bit larger to be on the safe side. I really wish I had a bigger refugium though... John C.

07/25/2006, 03:23 PM	#34
jsc4354 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Boynton Beach, FL Posts: 170	Ok, I thought about it and this is the only way to get a bigger refugium cheaply. Let me know if this can be done with a hob overflow from the refugium to the return section. Thx, John C.

07/25/2006, 06:20 PM	#35
MJAnderson Premium Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: East Bay, CA Posts: 2,633	Honestly before you go through all that I would go the top off route. Very helpful for dosing kalk water (which you probably will want to do sooner or later). Even if it's just a bucket and dosing pump for now and you pretty it up later you will appreciate it. All that extra plumbing is a pain and adds to your chances of a flood with the HOB. Plus once you get the ATO you will have extra room in your sump and unless you can get yours in and out of your stand, it will be wasted.