Help, I keep killing my fish but not inverts

mnestroy · 08/07/2006, 09:00 AM

Hello,

I'm still new to salt water and I keep killing my fish, I've heard people say that inverts are harder to keep alive than fish but I am having the opposite experience.

I do water changes, with RO water that I mix for 48hrs before using, temp/salinty/heat all match up farely well...

So why do you think I keep killing my fish?

Is it possible I'm over/under feeding? what else could be killing my fish.... but not my inverts/Anemone?

(Currently Alive)
2 - Percula Clown fish (Had for 5 months)
3 - Green Chromis (Had for 1 month)
1 - Golden Head Sleeper Goby (Had for 1 month)

1 - Florida Condi Anemone (Had for 5 Months)
1 - Pink Cucumber (Had for 5 monts)
2 - Feather Duster (Had for 5 months)
1 - Brittle Starfish (Had for 5 months)
1 - Zoos (50 polyps) (Had for 1 month)
30+ - Hermit Crabs, Snails, etc

(Fish I've killed)
2 - Green Chromis (Lasted several weeks died 1 and 3 months ago)
1 - Cow Fish (Lasted 4 days died 1month ago)
1 - Angel Fish (Lasted 2 weeks died 3weeks ago)
2 - Clownfish (Lasted 2 weeks died 4 months ago)
1 - Tiny Blue Tang
2 - Damsels (Lasted 4weeks died 5 months ago)

Background:
- Approx 6months old.
- 40 Gallon Breeder
- 70 Pounds of live rock.
- Aqua Remora Pro HOB Skimmer
- Ehiem 2026 Canister empty but for carbon
- 2 Powerheads (forget model)
- 2 Inches of sand
- 2 36" Standard fluorescent Lights
- 2 36" Atinic Standard fluorescent

Average Temp: 78-80
Ammonia 0
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 20-40
PH 8.2
SG 1.022

rkelman · 08/07/2006, 09:06 AM

Its hard to say without sympoms of the dying fish.. Could be ich or many other things.. Poor quality fish in the first place is possible... (cyanide caught)

nickterp · 08/07/2006, 09:12 AM

How many fish are you adding at once? Also, at your current (live)-stock level, you be at the safe capacity already. Adding new livestock you are probably going over your bio-load and overstressing new fish... which is why they are dying. I think your equipment looks pretty good though.

I would strongly consider trying to keep your tank AS IS for a good long time (another 6 months?) and make sure they are healthy and no more die offs. Then do some research and consider if you can add more livestock. You should know that besides the obvious differences between saltwater and freshwater.. there are some important less obvious ones. One of these is that while freshwater can be 100% oxygenated, Saltwater can only get up to %80 oxygen saturation. This means that you have to keep less fish in the same space in saltwater than you would in freshwater.

I would recommend buying The Conscientious Marine Aquariust by Rober Fenner. And also please read this thread about Tangs:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...hreadid=739380

Good luck!

mnestroy · 08/07/2006, 09:23 AM

yah the tang I got early on, I since then learned they need more space than a 40galon breeder....

Hmmm

mnestroy · 08/08/2006, 11:15 AM

Do I need to be concerned with Calcium or Alklinity, Phospates?

I dont understand how these two things factor into a fish tank, or if I need to be concerned with them?

nickterp · 08/08/2006, 11:44 AM

Alkalinity: is essentially your buffer against PH drops, if this is high your PH is unlikely to drop.... if its very low your PH can drop rapidly

Calcium: is very important for your invertebrates and corals, I would get a test kit for this and keep it at the recommended levels using a supplement

Phosphate: should be very low or undetectable, these can cause huge algae blooms and at high levels and be dangerous for your tank inhabitants

nickterp · 08/08/2006, 11:49 AM

Again, I definitely recommend buying a book on saltwater fish. Robert Fenner's book will give you info on all the things you've been asking, as well as tell you what you need to test, why, and what kind/how often you need to perform maintenance. Good luck!

08/07/2006, 09:00 AM	#1
mnestroy Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Aurora, IL Posts: 2,216	Help, I keep killing my fish but not inverts Hello, I'm still new to salt water and I keep killing my fish, I've heard people say that inverts are harder to keep alive than fish but I am having the opposite experience. I do water changes, with RO water that I mix for 48hrs before using, temp/salinty/heat all match up farely well... So why do you think I keep killing my fish? Is it possible I'm over/under feeding? what else could be killing my fish.... but not my inverts/Anemone? (Currently Alive) 2 - Percula Clown fish (Had for 5 months) 3 - Green Chromis (Had for 1 month) 1 - Golden Head Sleeper Goby (Had for 1 month) 1 - Florida Condi Anemone (Had for 5 Months) 1 - Pink Cucumber (Had for 5 monts) 2 - Feather Duster (Had for 5 months) 1 - Brittle Starfish (Had for 5 months) 1 - Zoos (50 polyps) (Had for 1 month) 30+ - Hermit Crabs, Snails, etc (Fish I've killed) 2 - Green Chromis (Lasted several weeks died 1 and 3 months ago) 1 - Cow Fish (Lasted 4 days died 1month ago) 1 - Angel Fish (Lasted 2 weeks died 3weeks ago) 2 - Clownfish (Lasted 2 weeks died 4 months ago) 1 - Tiny Blue Tang 2 - Damsels (Lasted 4weeks died 5 months ago) Background: - Approx 6months old. - 40 Gallon Breeder - 70 Pounds of live rock. - Aqua Remora Pro HOB Skimmer - Ehiem 2026 Canister empty but for carbon - 2 Powerheads (forget model) - 2 Inches of sand - 2 36" Standard fluorescent Lights - 2 36" Atinic Standard fluorescent Average Temp: 78-80 Ammonia 0 Nitrites 0 Nitrates 20-40 PH 8.2 SG 1.022

08/07/2006, 09:06 AM	#2
rkelman Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Belleville, Ontario Canada Posts: 3,438	Its hard to say without sympoms of the dying fish.. Could be ich or many other things.. Poor quality fish in the first place is possible... (cyanide caught)

08/07/2006, 09:12 AM	#3
nickterp Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Virginia Posts: 263	How many fish are you adding at once? Also, at your current (live)-stock level, you be at the safe capacity already. Adding new livestock you are probably going over your bio-load and overstressing new fish... which is why they are dying. I think your equipment looks pretty good though. I would strongly consider trying to keep your tank AS IS for a good long time (another 6 months?) and make sure they are healthy and no more die offs. Then do some research and consider if you can add more livestock. You should know that besides the obvious differences between saltwater and freshwater.. there are some important less obvious ones. One of these is that while freshwater can be 100% oxygenated, Saltwater can only get up to %80 oxygen saturation. This means that you have to keep less fish in the same space in saltwater than you would in freshwater. I would recommend buying The Conscientious Marine Aquariust by Rober Fenner. And also please read this thread about Tangs: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...hreadid=739380 Good luck!

08/07/2006, 09:23 AM	#4
mnestroy Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Aurora, IL Posts: 2,216	yah the tang I got early on, I since then learned they need more space than a 40galon breeder.... Hmmm

08/08/2006, 11:15 AM	#5
mnestroy Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Aurora, IL Posts: 2,216	Do I need to be concerned with Calcium or Alklinity, Phospates? I dont understand how these two things factor into a fish tank, or if I need to be concerned with them?

08/08/2006, 11:44 AM	#6
nickterp Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Virginia Posts: 263	Alkalinity: is essentially your buffer against PH drops, if this is high your PH is unlikely to drop.... if its very low your PH can drop rapidly Calcium: is very important for your invertebrates and corals, I would get a test kit for this and keep it at the recommended levels using a supplement Phosphate: should be very low or undetectable, these can cause huge algae blooms and at high levels and be dangerous for your tank inhabitants

08/08/2006, 11:49 AM	#7
nickterp Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Virginia Posts: 263	Again, I definitely recommend buying a book on saltwater fish. Robert Fenner's book will give you info on all the things you've been asking, as well as tell you what you need to test, why, and what kind/how often you need to perform maintenance. Good luck!