Noisey siphon/overflow box! Please help

CCarlson8 · 07/08/2006, 08:53 AM

I posted a thread about this a couple weeks ago and did not really get help. Anyways, I have a lifereef overflow box on my 55g reef. This thing is noisey! I have built several different versions of the stockman silencer standpipe and tried all sorts of different configurations and can not get it quiet without basically stopping the amount of water being sent to the sump. The other thing I have noticed is that the water level in the overflow box on the back of the tank fluctuates greatly. By that I mean it will rise up then quickly get sucked back down. Is that normal?

I really need to get this thing quieter because it is driving the in-laws nuts!

drunktank · 07/08/2006, 09:05 AM

water levl should remain constant. Do u have any ball valves so you can adjust flow? Have u tried the Durso stand pipe configuration?

Mr31415 · 07/08/2006, 09:17 AM

I threw lots of bioballs in the overflow box - very silent.

sjm817 · 07/08/2006, 09:30 AM

What are you using for a return pump?

crumbletop · 07/08/2006, 09:32 AM

How much water are you pushing through the overflow (i.e. how big is your return pump). It sounds like you are building up to full siphon. Some things to consider:

1) Too much flow could be a cause of your problem.
2) You need to have a place for air to get into the drain pipe to keep it from going full siphon.

I use a durso in a built in overflow, but I believe the same principles apply to a hang-on and a stockman.

Jack

theop · 07/08/2006, 09:55 AM

Use of a standpipe is the best way to silence the overflow.

The rising/falling in the overflow is caused by not enough air being able to enter the drain. This also causes the flushing noises.
Jack is correct that the standpipe works the same way on an overflow as in a RR tank.

My suspicion is that you have too much flow in your return pump and your overflow cannot keep up when you are using a standpipe. The easiest thing to do is to T-off your return line and let some of the return return to the sump or to use a ball-valve to restrict the flow back to your tank.

What is the GPH of your return and size of the overflow bulkhead?

CCarlson8 · 07/08/2006, 10:25 AM

The overflow box is the LifeReef hang on overflow and I am told it can handle 600 gph. I am running an Eheim 1260 return pump that is controlled with a ball valve. The Eheim pump is rated at 635 gph however I am running it through 3 outlets with several bends. I used the calculator here on RC and it says I am getting about 510 gph.

I can not use the Durso standpipe because it does not fit in the box. On the stockman pipe that I am using, I have a hole drilled in the cap with an airhose and valve attached to it.

crumbletop · 07/08/2006, 10:35 AM

Try opening up the air hose to let in as much air as possible. When you do that, see if the overflow starts to fill up, or if it stabilizes, or if it continues to do the back and forth thingy with the siphon.

Jack

CCarlson8 · 07/08/2006, 10:38 AM

I have opened the valve, removed the valve, removed the entire airhose and it still does the back and forth thingy.... I am out of ideas... Would changing the drain pipe to a solid pvc pipe do anything? That is about the only thing I have not tried.

(Thanks for all the help guys I really appreciate it! I am just out of ideas!)

theop · 07/08/2006, 10:42 AM

Try a bigger air hole and clean out the standpipe. If the air hole gets clogged by salt creep it will cause the behavior you are describing. My guess is that it needs more air.

crumbletop · 07/08/2006, 10:44 AM

what theop said....

sjm817 · 07/08/2006, 10:58 AM

OK, that info helps. I am also using a LR overflow and a 1260. forget the Stockman, I could never get it to work well.

I've used a few setups and found this one to work well. Use the stock little standpipe it comes with and have the tall end face the U Tube. Take a short little piece of 1" PVC and put a cap on it. You will need some 3/8" airline tubing. Drill a hole in the cap so that the airline fits tight in it. Use the sponge prefilter it comes with and put the little piece you made into the top of the sponge. Push the airline down until the loud slurping noise stops which should be just into the top of the short standpipe. Fine tune it by sliding the airline up and down until it is quiet. The sponge is there just to hold the top piece in place and does also dampen noise.

Newreeflady · 09/07/2006, 08:17 AM

sjm, doesn't the sponge build up nitrates? Mine is also noisy, I shut it down, i'm not very tolerant.

thx,
-A

imtheonlylp · 09/07/2006, 08:44 AM

here is a picture of my overflow box...i cut out a piece of cardboard and taped it tightly to the top...i found out that the trick was to secure it tightly - the tighter it was, the quieter it got - here's a picture:

ericwebster · 09/07/2006, 12:32 PM

Although I ahve not solved the problem its a process of finding the "sweet spot" -- play with your flow and play with the height that the standpipe goes down into the drain hole.

When I was running my return pump (mag 18 -- yeah I know -- damn LFS) at max it was whisper quiet .. but since I have added a ball valve to pull back on the flow on a 'tad' and have been fiddleing with with trying to get it to be nice and quiet.

The trick seems to be to have air and water going down the tube at the same time. I don't believe using PVC or flexible tubing will create a diffrence.

I spent a good hour working on just this yesterday -- what a life!

reefing4life · 09/07/2006, 12:52 PM

I just put a new unused HOB filter cartridge in my overflow and it is alot quieter now. Just use the filter media and rinse it off every so often. Makes mine purrrrrr instead of barking at me...

reefing4life · 09/07/2006, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by imtheonlylp
here is a picture of my overflow box...i cut out a piece of cardboard and taped it tightly to the top...i found out that the trick was to secure it tightly - the tighter it was, the quieter it got - here's a picture:

thats a good idea but I found a website that makes covers for overflow boxes here....

http://amekaaquatics.com/Merchant2/m...ore_Code=AMEKA

ericwebster · 09/07/2006, 12:57 PM

I had that for a while too .. remember that will slow down your drain flow -- also if for some reason it got clogged you could also overflow your tank depending on the setup.

just play with it.

not that -- the overflow.

ericwebster · 09/07/2006, 12:58 PM

What does Bio Bale do? Is it to aid Bio filtration?

reefing4life · 09/07/2006, 01:09 PM

yes. Its for biological filteration or should I say for biological bacteria...

ericwebster · 09/07/2006, 01:17 PM

is it good? should I using it? Seems like a bio ball idea where it will be a nitrate factory unless cleaned often. But when cleaned it will loose its bio filtration properties .. true/false?

reefing4life · 09/07/2006, 01:24 PM

Not good for a reef tank and it will be a nitrate factory so that part is true... Would only be good if you have a FOWLR tank going or freshwater tank.

ericwebster · 09/07/2006, 01:25 PM

thought so. thanks.

07/08/2006, 08:53 AM	#1
CCarlson8 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Orlando Posts: 75	Noisey siphon/overflow box! Please help I posted a thread about this a couple weeks ago and did not really get help. Anyways, I have a lifereef overflow box on my 55g reef. This thing is noisey! I have built several different versions of the stockman silencer standpipe and tried all sorts of different configurations and can not get it quiet without basically stopping the amount of water being sent to the sump. The other thing I have noticed is that the water level in the overflow box on the back of the tank fluctuates greatly. By that I mean it will rise up then quickly get sucked back down. Is that normal? I really need to get this thing quieter because it is driving the in-laws nuts!

07/08/2006, 09:30 AM	#4
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	What are you using for a return pump? __________________ - Scott

07/08/2006, 09:32 AM	#5
crumbletop Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 4,718	How much water are you pushing through the overflow (i.e. how big is your return pump). It sounds like you are building up to full siphon. Some things to consider: 1) Too much flow could be a cause of your problem. 2) You need to have a place for air to get into the drain pipe to keep it from going full siphon. I use a durso in a built in overflow, but I believe the same principles apply to a hang-on and a stockman. Jack __________________ "Misers get up early in the morning; and burglars, I am informed, get up the night before." - GK Chesterton Current Tank Info: 90 gallon AGA RR. 20 gal sump. 6x54W T5. AquaController Jr.

07/08/2006, 10:35 AM	#8
crumbletop Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 4,718	Try opening up the air hose to let in as much air as possible. When you do that, see if the overflow starts to fill up, or if it stabilizes, or if it continues to do the back and forth thingy with the siphon. Jack __________________ "Misers get up early in the morning; and burglars, I am informed, get up the night before." - GK Chesterton Current Tank Info: 90 gallon AGA RR. 20 gal sump. 6x54W T5. AquaController Jr.

07/08/2006, 10:44 AM	#11
crumbletop Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 4,718	what theop said.... __________________ "Misers get up early in the morning; and burglars, I am informed, get up the night before." - GK Chesterton Current Tank Info: 90 gallon AGA RR. 20 gal sump. 6x54W T5. AquaController Jr.

07/08/2006, 09:05 AM	#2
drunktank Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 404	water levl should remain constant. Do u have any ball valves so you can adjust flow? Have u tried the Durso stand pipe configuration?

07/08/2006, 09:17 AM	#3
Mr31415 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Surrey, Canada Posts: 1,926	I threw lots of bioballs in the overflow box - very silent.

07/08/2006, 09:55 AM	#6
theop Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Durham, NC Posts: 1,493	Use of a standpipe is the best way to silence the overflow. The rising/falling in the overflow is caused by not enough air being able to enter the drain. This also causes the flushing noises. Jack is correct that the standpipe works the same way on an overflow as in a RR tank. My suspicion is that you have too much flow in your return pump and your overflow cannot keep up when you are using a standpipe. The easiest thing to do is to T-off your return line and let some of the return return to the sump or to use a ball-valve to restrict the flow back to your tank. What is the GPH of your return and size of the overflow bulkhead?

07/08/2006, 10:25 AM	#7
CCarlson8 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Orlando Posts: 75	The overflow box is the LifeReef hang on overflow and I am told it can handle 600 gph. I am running an Eheim 1260 return pump that is controlled with a ball valve. The Eheim pump is rated at 635 gph however I am running it through 3 outlets with several bends. I used the calculator here on RC and it says I am getting about 510 gph. I can not use the Durso standpipe because it does not fit in the box. On the stockman pipe that I am using, I have a hole drilled in the cap with an airhose and valve attached to it.

07/08/2006, 10:38 AM	#9
CCarlson8 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Orlando Posts: 75	I have opened the valve, removed the valve, removed the entire airhose and it still does the back and forth thingy.... I am out of ideas... Would changing the drain pipe to a solid pvc pipe do anything? That is about the only thing I have not tried. (Thanks for all the help guys I really appreciate it! I am just out of ideas!)

07/08/2006, 10:42 AM	#10
theop Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Durham, NC Posts: 1,493	Try a bigger air hole and clean out the standpipe. If the air hole gets clogged by salt creep it will cause the behavior you are describing. My guess is that it needs more air.

07/08/2006, 10:58 AM	#12
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	OK, that info helps. I am also using a LR overflow and a 1260. forget the Stockman, I could never get it to work well. I've used a few setups and found this one to work well. Use the stock little standpipe it comes with and have the tall end face the U Tube. Take a short little piece of 1" PVC and put a cap on it. You will need some 3/8" airline tubing. Drill a hole in the cap so that the airline fits tight in it. Use the sponge prefilter it comes with and put the little piece you made into the top of the sponge. Push the airline down until the loud slurping noise stops which should be just into the top of the short standpipe. Fine tune it by sliding the airline up and down until it is quiet. The sponge is there just to hold the top piece in place and does also dampen noise. __________________ - Scott

09/07/2006, 08:17 AM	#13
Newreeflady Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Ithaca, NY Posts: 4,840	sjm, doesn't the sponge build up nitrates? Mine is also noisy, I shut it down, i'm not very tolerant. thx, -A __________________ A university professor went to visit a famous Zen master. While the master quietly served tea, the professor talked about Zen. The master poured the visitor’s cup to the brim, and then kept pouring. The professor watched the overflowing cup until he could no longer restrain himself. “It’s overfull! No more will go in!” the professor blurted. “You are like this cup,” the master replied, “How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup.” Current Tank Info: 56g, 20g.

09/07/2006, 08:44 AM	#14
imtheonlylp Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Columbus, Ga Posts: 465	here is a picture of my overflow box...i cut out a piece of cardboard and taped it tightly to the top...i found out that the trick was to secure it tightly - the tighter it was, the quieter it got - here's a picture: __________________ "Tomorrow is the only day that appeals to a lazy man" - Jimmy Lyons Current Tank Info: 75g glass, 20g sump/refugium, QueenTS200, CA2300 return pump, (2) AquaClear4000 powerheads

09/07/2006, 12:32 PM	#15
ericwebster Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Boston MA Posts: 375	Although I ahve not solved the problem its a process of finding the "sweet spot" -- play with your flow and play with the height that the standpipe goes down into the drain hole. When I was running my return pump (mag 18 -- yeah I know -- damn LFS) at max it was whisper quiet .. but since I have added a ball valve to pull back on the flow on a 'tad' and have been fiddleing with with trying to get it to be nice and quiet. The trick seems to be to have air and water going down the tube at the same time. I don't believe using PVC or flexible tubing will create a diffrence. I spent a good hour working on just this yesterday -- what a life! __________________ "Nobody tried to sell me the most used piece of equipment I own .. my mop." 72G Tank LTA, Pulsing Xenia, Blue Tang, Mated Maroons, 2 Damsels, Neon Goby, Watchman Goby, Algae Blenny, Peppermint Shrimp (3), CBS (1), Cleaner Shrimp Current Tank Info: 100G bow front corner. Yellow Tank, Coral Beauty, Clownfish, some SPS, LPS and Soft Corals

09/07/2006, 12:52 PM	#16
reefing4life Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Michigan Posts: 56	I just put a new unused HOB filter cartridge in my overflow and it is alot quieter now. Just use the filter media and rinse it off every so often. Makes mine purrrrrr instead of barking at me... __________________ 26 gal bowfront reef with bak pak 2R skimmer, penguin 100 hob filter, stealth 250 watt heater. Current Tank Info: I have over 1400 gallons of freshwater and saltwater fish in my basement

09/07/2006, 12:57 PM	#18
ericwebster Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Boston MA Posts: 375	I had that for a while too .. remember that will slow down your drain flow -- also if for some reason it got clogged you could also overflow your tank depending on the setup. just play with it. not that -- the overflow. __________________ "Nobody tried to sell me the most used piece of equipment I own .. my mop." 72G Tank LTA, Pulsing Xenia, Blue Tang, Mated Maroons, 2 Damsels, Neon Goby, Watchman Goby, Algae Blenny, Peppermint Shrimp (3), CBS (1), Cleaner Shrimp Current Tank Info: 100G bow front corner. Yellow Tank, Coral Beauty, Clownfish, some SPS, LPS and Soft Corals

09/07/2006, 12:58 PM	#19
ericwebster Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Boston MA Posts: 375	What does Bio Bale do? Is it to aid Bio filtration? __________________ "Nobody tried to sell me the most used piece of equipment I own .. my mop." 72G Tank LTA, Pulsing Xenia, Blue Tang, Mated Maroons, 2 Damsels, Neon Goby, Watchman Goby, Algae Blenny, Peppermint Shrimp (3), CBS (1), Cleaner Shrimp Current Tank Info: 100G bow front corner. Yellow Tank, Coral Beauty, Clownfish, some SPS, LPS and Soft Corals

09/07/2006, 01:09 PM	#20
reefing4life Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Michigan Posts: 56	yes. Its for biological filteration or should I say for biological bacteria...

09/07/2006, 01:17 PM	#21
ericwebster Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Boston MA Posts: 375	is it good? should I using it? Seems like a bio ball idea where it will be a nitrate factory unless cleaned often. But when cleaned it will loose its bio filtration properties .. true/false? __________________ "Nobody tried to sell me the most used piece of equipment I own .. my mop." 72G Tank LTA, Pulsing Xenia, Blue Tang, Mated Maroons, 2 Damsels, Neon Goby, Watchman Goby, Algae Blenny, Peppermint Shrimp (3), CBS (1), Cleaner Shrimp Current Tank Info: 100G bow front corner. Yellow Tank, Coral Beauty, Clownfish, some SPS, LPS and Soft Corals

09/07/2006, 01:24 PM	#22
reefing4life Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Michigan Posts: 56	Not good for a reef tank and it will be a nitrate factory so that part is true... Would only be good if you have a FOWLR tank going or freshwater tank. __________________ 26 gal bowfront reef with bak pak 2R skimmer, penguin 100 hob filter, stealth 250 watt heater. Current Tank Info: I have over 1400 gallons of freshwater and saltwater fish in my basement

09/07/2006, 01:25 PM	#23
ericwebster Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Boston MA Posts: 375	thought so. thanks. __________________ "Nobody tried to sell me the most used piece of equipment I own .. my mop." 72G Tank LTA, Pulsing Xenia, Blue Tang, Mated Maroons, 2 Damsels, Neon Goby, Watchman Goby, Algae Blenny, Peppermint Shrimp (3), CBS (1), Cleaner Shrimp Current Tank Info: 100G bow front corner. Yellow Tank, Coral Beauty, Clownfish, some SPS, LPS and Soft Corals