h2o cycling...base rock or no base rock in h2o?

Clouded · 09/21/2006, 10:00 AM

So I am starting to get everything to put together my 110gal tank
and I am going to start over with all new water...

I have a 100gal stock tank that I will be letting the water cycle in...I am getting some dead rock and I am curious if I should let this sit in the water from the start of the cycle, or put it in once the cycle has come down to reasonable levels.

I understand the purpose the of LR, is that the biological stuff acts as a filter and helps with controling water params. and I also under stand that dead rock will become live again...but would there be any adverse effects of adding the base rock in the begining of the cycle or should I leave it out until the cycle is over?

Thanks...for your input.

sharky_steve · 09/21/2006, 10:05 AM

No adverse effects. Adding the "dead" base rock first will actually decrease cycling time as it will provide bacteria with more surface area to colonize.

Clouded · 09/21/2006, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sharky_steve
No adverse effects. Adding the "dead" base rock first will actually decrease cycling time as it will provide bacteria with more surface area to colonize.

Thanks.

jeffbrig · 09/21/2006, 10:16 AM

Just to clarify - cycling is not about "cycling" the water. It's a game of bacterial population dynamics. You add a source of ammonia to a tank, you wait for bacterial populations to grow to levels that can process that ammonia. Same with nitrite a few days later. Once both taper off, you say your tank is "cycled", not so much the water. The bacteria that are growing colonize the rock and substrate, not the water column.

nmprisons · 09/21/2006, 12:04 PM

you want your live rock in there to cycle your tank.

Clouded · 09/21/2006, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jeffbrig
Just to clarify - cycling is not about "cycling" the water. It's a game of bacterial population dynamics. You add a source of ammonia to a tank, you wait for bacterial populations to grow to levels that can process that ammonia. Same with nitrite a few days later. Once both taper off, you say your tank is "cycled", not so much the water. The bacteria that are growing colonize the rock and substrate, not the water column.

The water needs to cycle...to cycle...I am not doing this cycle in my tank...it will be done in an external stocking tank...so yes if I add the ammonia source (i understand how to start it) and let all the bacteria grow in the water and then set up the tank and add the water to the tank...it will all be the same...so yes I am cycling the water, the water may not change per say, but have stuff going on with in it...but it is still cycling....

Clouded · 09/21/2006, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nmprisons
you want your live rock in there to cycle your tank.

I am using dead base rock with no life on it what so ever...so intialy this will not be needed to help start the process, but as time goes on, bacteria will grow on the rock and live inside the rock which will help keep my tank water clean.

And LR does not need to be present to start a cycle...LR helps with the process of the cycle.

ObscurityKnocks · 09/21/2006, 12:38 PM

If the bacteria lived in the water why would people need filters/live rock? You don't cycle the water you cycle the filtration system.

Clouded · 09/21/2006, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ObscurityKnocks
If the bacteria lived in the water why would people need filters/live rock? You don't cycle the water you cycle the filtration system.

I can not believe people are that concerned with this...if you have no water...then you have nothing...so you need to water and everything in it to run it course aka "the cycle", so yes water is a major part in that...People do realize that there was a time before LR was used and people did not have sumps not skimmers running their tanks, right?????? The main part in people being able to keep fish in a tank was due to to the "good" bacteria in the water and the water alone...nothing else was cycled with it...but it was hard to keep the levels at a good number with out having a 300gal tank and 4 fish in it...thus came using, LR, LS, skimmers, filters and the like....

You can have tank with no filtration system and no LR and still keep livestock in there...the purpose of mech. filtration (i.e. skimmers, bio-wheels{a little different they give a source for the bacteria to grow, like LR}, etc.)is to remove waste from the water due to out aquaria not having enough water volume to support the break down of bacteria. Most people only use a skimmer now as the sole form of mech. filtration.

Now...LR (and sand, which is a whole other discussion) is another form of filtration...we add this because it gives a place for the "good" bacteria to "make a home" and then it becomes way more abundent and thus breaks down the bad bacteria alot better...

So really the only thing that needs to "cycle" (for me)is the water, the rock and sand if you have this stuff... In my case...I am just going to start the water cycle by adding an ammonia source and I will add the completely dead and viod of life rock in the mix...this is not going to act as a filter right away, but as the good bacteria grows in the water, they will attach/"make a home" on dead rock and then begin their job of breaking down the bad bacteria....

ObscurityKnocks · 09/21/2006, 02:36 PM

Yes there was a time before LR and sumps. People used undergravel filters. This is where the bacteria grew.

Before that they relied on water changes alone to remove the waste. Which is why they weren't very successful.

Excuse us for trying to help. Regardless it is pointless to cycle the water before putting the dead rock in. Un-cycled water is not going to hurt the dead base rock.

Clouded · 09/21/2006, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ObscurityKnocks
Yes there was a time before LR and sumps. People used undergravel filters. This is where the bacteria grew.

Before that they relied on water changes alone to remove the waste. Which is why they weren't very successful.

Excuse us for trying to help. Regardless it is pointless to cycle the water before putting the dead rock in. Un-cycled water is not going to hurt the dead base rock.

I understand this...I am not getting on anyone's case for anything...its just that that people were trying to tell me that it is not the water that needs to cycle...my point was simply that is a major part in the cycle. I just wanted to make sure there would be no adversve effects with the rock having no life on it what so ever and it possible collecting alot of bad bacteria and holding it there just to leech it out (kind of like rocks holding phosphates)...I did not think this was the case but I figured I would ask.

09/21/2006, 10:00 AM	#1
Clouded Moved On Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Beaverton, OR Posts: 193	h2o cycling...base rock or no base rock in h2o? So I am starting to get everything to put together my 110gal tank and I am going to start over with all new water... I have a 100gal stock tank that I will be letting the water cycle in...I am getting some dead rock and I am curious if I should let this sit in the water from the start of the cycle, or put it in once the cycle has come down to reasonable levels. I understand the purpose the of LR, is that the biological stuff acts as a filter and helps with controling water params. and I also under stand that dead rock will become live again...but would there be any adverse effects of adding the base rock in the begining of the cycle or should I leave it out until the cycle is over? Thanks...for your input.

09/21/2006, 10:16 AM	#4
jeffbrig Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL Posts: 5,548	Just to clarify - cycling is not about "cycling" the water. It's a game of bacterial population dynamics. You add a source of ammonia to a tank, you wait for bacterial populations to grow to levels that can process that ammonia. Same with nitrite a few days later. Once both taper off, you say your tank is "cycled", not so much the water. The bacteria that are growing colonize the rock and substrate, not the water column. __________________ Beware the power of stupid people in large groups..... Current Tank Info: formerly 250g room divider

09/21/2006, 12:04 PM	#5
nmprisons Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,520	you want your live rock in there to cycle your tank. __________________ 25gallon tank up and cycling since 7/29/06 Mostly LPS reef (lords, micros, duncans, etc.) with some ricordia florida and zoanthids. Current Tank Info: 25 gallon, 28lbs of Marshall Island and Kaelini Live Rock, 2x65 power compact lighting, IFS Protein Skimmer

09/21/2006, 10:05 AM	#2
sharky_steve Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 129	No adverse effects. Adding the "dead" base rock first will actually decrease cycling time as it will provide bacteria with more surface area to colonize.

09/21/2006, 12:38 PM	#8
ObscurityKnocks Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Omaha NE Posts: 360	If the bacteria lived in the water why would people need filters/live rock? You don't cycle the water you cycle the filtration system.

09/21/2006, 02:36 PM	#10
ObscurityKnocks Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Omaha NE Posts: 360	Yes there was a time before LR and sumps. People used undergravel filters. This is where the bacteria grew. Before that they relied on water changes alone to remove the waste. Which is why they weren't very successful. Excuse us for trying to help. Regardless it is pointless to cycle the water before putting the dead rock in. Un-cycled water is not going to hurt the dead base rock.