cycling tank with cocktail shrimp.

president89 · 10/04/2006, 12:14 AM

hello,

I read somewhere thaty ou can cycle a tank with a piece of cocktail shrimp. So i tried it, and the cocktail shrimp is now ont he bottom of the tank after 4 days and is covered in white fuzz.. has anyone cycled a tank without fish before? I threw some food in as well so that can turn to ammonia. BTW what is the fuzz on the shrimp? Is this a good thing? I know the same thing happens when you have a dead fish in your tank and forget to take it out.

bertoni · 10/04/2006, 01:08 AM

If there's live rock in the tank, I wouldn't add shrimp at all. If the tank has measureable ammonia, I would suggest removing the remains.

I don't know what the fuzz might be. Perhaps just the carcass plus microbes.

Paintbug · 10/04/2006, 08:50 AM

have you tested your ammonia levels? i would say its time to remove the shrimp as well. the fuzz is just the shrimp decaying. you should have an ammonia reading by now. if so go ahead and take out the shrimp. warning it may stink!

sir_dudeguy · 10/04/2006, 09:03 AM

have you got any live rock? That will cycle on its own and imo, adding a shrimp will just cause excessive and unneaded amonia levels and could get to the point of where it actually could be harmful to the critters on the rocks.

And cycling with fish is very much a thing of the past now. In fact, it is actually very bad for the fish in question too.

president89 · 10/04/2006, 09:35 AM

I only have a few pieces of old live rock.. aka it was in my garage from my old tank, so it doesn't have any living organisms on it. I just wanted to kick start the process cause I spent the rest of my last paycheck setting it up. thanks for your reply. Should I leave my skimmer running? I've gotten mixed opinions on it.

coyoteseven · 10/04/2006, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Paintbug
... i would say its time to remove the shrimp as well. the fuzz is just the shrimp decaying. you should have an ammonia reading by now. if so go ahead and take out the shrimp. warning it may stink!

Stink is putting it nicely... the stench could knock a buzzard off a turd hearse filled with dead skunks.

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt and the burnt nose hairs to prove it (was making live sand).

You can actually leave it in there to completely rot away if you wish. I took a 1/4" dowel and 'broke it up' after a couple of weeks in one of my first tanks (I used a big honkin' bait shrimp

)... there was nothing left that could be identified as a shrimp, just blobs of white goo. The goo blobs completely disappeared about a week later, however, since at that time I still wasn't quite ready to add livestock, I would throw in a few small marine food pellets once a week to give the bacteria something to 'munch' on.

I didn't run a skimmer during the initial cycling, just my sump pump and powerheads for circulation.

BTW, the rotting shrimp method of cycling will work just as well in freshwater... lots better than using rosy feeders or danios.

president89 · 10/04/2006, 10:46 AM

Cycling takes 30+ days no matter what in a marine tank correct?

Jocko · 10/04/2006, 11:12 AM

Cycling takes however long it takes for the levels to all hit 0. And whenever you add or remove something to/from the system then the system needs time to equalize again. Forget the shrimp. Just proceed forward with getting live rock when you can afford to. If you haven't already, also get a couple cups or pound or whatever of some live sand and add that to your sand if it wasn't already live sand.

Once you have all your rock and everything set up in there, just wait a couple of weeks after all the levels are zero and then you can think about starting to add a cleanup crew. Then a couple weeks later maybe a fish or two. Just remember each addition adds bioload and the bacteria population needs time to grow to accomodate that new waste output. Take your time and always make sure your levels hit zero.

Honestly I doubt running or not running the skimmer during your cycle is going to make a huge difference. I'd say just go ahead and run it.

coyoteseven · 10/04/2006, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by president89
Cycling takes 30+ days no matter what in a marine tank correct?

Yes and no... every tank is different.

If you're starting out with dead or sterile components, the cycle could take quite awhile to complete. However, I've 'cheated' by using a piece of cured LR, some LS, or even a sponge filter to provide a boost start to new setups. With a small supply of the different nitrifying bacteria present at the beginning, and depending on the initial bioload/tank size, IME, cycling can be done in as little as a couple of weeks. This is where good test kits (like Salifert), will come into play... time itself is never a good way to confirm if a cycle is finished.

president89 · 10/04/2006, 01:10 PM

Well i just went out and bought a really nice piece of 6lb figi rock. The formation on this is awesome. I also bought an ammonia test kit(cause i apparently didn't have one. I know i have nitrite, nitrate, ph, and buffering capacity.) It looks as though I am in the middle of my ammonia spike. Its one bar below the highest the test goes. I think it said 5ppm

bertoni · 10/04/2006, 03:34 PM

Before adding the live rock, I'd do a major water change. No sense exposing the animals on the rock to 5ppm ammonia.

president89 · 10/06/2006, 05:07 PM

algae growth is a good sign during a cycle, correct. Doesn't there have to nitrate present in order or algae to grow?

Tightrope · 10/06/2006, 05:18 PM

My freshwater experience is showing, but...

...why do people use cocktail shrimp, instead of pure ammonia? I always cycled my fresh tanks with pure ammonia, and never had an issue. Is there something in saltwater that makes this a bad idea?

sir_dudeguy · 10/06/2006, 06:07 PM

Quote:

algae growth is a good sign during a cycle, correct. Doesn't there have to nitrate present in order or algae to grow?

good? nah, prolly not a "good" sign...but its a "normal" sign so i guess you COULD call it a good sign...things are going normally, so i spose thats good lol

Yes, algae feeds off of nitrates and phosphates, but just because theres nitrates, that doesnt mean that the cycle has started...if you're using tap water, that could be adding both nitrates and phosphates, but those dont start a cycle...you just need amonia to start a cycle. The amonia then gets broken down to nitrites...then those get broken down to nitrates. Once your amonia and nitrites are 0, you're done...so the nitrates really arent part of the "cycle"...they're the end product so to speak.

bertoni · 10/06/2006, 06:14 PM

I wouldn't use pure ammonia in a tank with live rock, but it works for an artificial filter. Not clear that it's worth finding a source of pure ammonia, when a few pinches of fish food will also do the trick.

Tightrope · 10/06/2006, 07:34 PM

Well, you can easily find pure ammonia at Ace Hardware, which is why I ask. If it's no good for live rock, though, that's a good enough answer for me! I knew there had to be a good reason.

Can't learn if I don't ask...

Swanwillow · 10/06/2006, 07:43 PM

yes, you can use it... in VERY small amounts, and test test test after so ya don't destroy your tank by adding too much

sir_dudeguy · 10/06/2006, 08:04 PM

well with live rock theres no point because live rock will either A) have the die off that will cause amonia to get it going (this is uncured rock) or B) already be cycled and not need to be cycled...you'd likely just see a small spike..i didnt even get that. (this is cured rock)

So if you got live rock, theres no point...if you got a canister, wet/dry, or hob filter ONLY then yes, you can do that.

10/04/2006, 12:14 AM	#1
president89 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 466	cycling tank with cocktail shrimp. hello, I read somewhere thaty ou can cycle a tank with a piece of cocktail shrimp. So i tried it, and the cocktail shrimp is now ont he bottom of the tank after 4 days and is covered in white fuzz.. has anyone cycled a tank without fish before? I threw some food in as well so that can turn to ammonia. BTW what is the fuzz on the shrimp? Is this a good thing? I know the same thing happens when you have a dead fish in your tank and forget to take it out.

10/04/2006, 01:08 AM	#2
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	If there's live rock in the tank, I wouldn't add shrimp at all. If the tank has measureable ammonia, I would suggest removing the remains. I don't know what the fuzz might be. Perhaps just the carcass plus microbes. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

10/04/2006, 08:50 AM	#3
Paintbug Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Stoneville, NC Posts: 6,169	have you tested your ammonia levels? i would say its time to remove the shrimp as well. the fuzz is just the shrimp decaying. you should have an ammonia reading by now. if so go ahead and take out the shrimp. warning it may stink! __________________ Never ask a girl over to see your crabs!! <-Tony-> Current Tank Info: NONE currently

10/04/2006, 09:03 AM	#4
sir_dudeguy Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 10,841	have you got any live rock? That will cycle on its own and imo, adding a shrimp will just cause excessive and unneaded amonia levels and could get to the point of where it actually could be harmful to the critters on the rocks. And cycling with fish is very much a thing of the past now. In fact, it is actually very bad for the fish in question too. __________________ TAKE...LUCK!!!

10/04/2006, 03:34 PM	#11
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	Before adding the live rock, I'd do a major water change. No sense exposing the animals on the rock to 5ppm ammonia. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

10/04/2006, 09:35 AM	#5
president89 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 466	I only have a few pieces of old live rock.. aka it was in my garage from my old tank, so it doesn't have any living organisms on it. I just wanted to kick start the process cause I spent the rest of my last paycheck setting it up. thanks for your reply. Should I leave my skimmer running? I've gotten mixed opinions on it.

10/04/2006, 10:46 AM	#7
president89 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 466	Cycling takes 30+ days no matter what in a marine tank correct?

10/04/2006, 11:12 AM	#8
Jocko Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Boston Posts: 595	Cycling takes however long it takes for the levels to all hit 0. And whenever you add or remove something to/from the system then the system needs time to equalize again. Forget the shrimp. Just proceed forward with getting live rock when you can afford to. If you haven't already, also get a couple cups or pound or whatever of some live sand and add that to your sand if it wasn't already live sand. Once you have all your rock and everything set up in there, just wait a couple of weeks after all the levels are zero and then you can think about starting to add a cleanup crew. Then a couple weeks later maybe a fish or two. Just remember each addition adds bioload and the bacteria population needs time to grow to accomodate that new waste output. Take your time and always make sure your levels hit zero. Honestly I doubt running or not running the skimmer during your cycle is going to make a huge difference. I'd say just go ahead and run it.

10/04/2006, 01:10 PM	#10
president89 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 466	Well i just went out and bought a really nice piece of 6lb figi rock. The formation on this is awesome. I also bought an ammonia test kit(cause i apparently didn't have one. I know i have nitrite, nitrate, ph, and buffering capacity.) It looks as though I am in the middle of my ammonia spike. Its one bar below the highest the test goes. I think it said 5ppm

10/06/2006, 05:07 PM	#12
president89 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 466	algae growth is a good sign during a cycle, correct. Doesn't there have to nitrate present in order or algae to grow?

10/06/2006, 05:18 PM	#13
Tightrope Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 44	My freshwater experience is showing, but... ...why do people use cocktail shrimp, instead of pure ammonia? I always cycled my fresh tanks with pure ammonia, and never had an issue. Is there something in saltwater that makes this a bad idea? __________________ So new, I don't know my wrasse from my elbow. Current Tank Info: 125 gal. Tropheus/Petrochromis to be turned into saltwater, 10g saltwater, 20 gal South American cichlids

10/06/2006, 06:14 PM	#15
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	I wouldn't use pure ammonia in a tank with live rock, but it works for an artificial filter. Not clear that it's worth finding a source of pure ammonia, when a few pinches of fish food will also do the trick. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

10/06/2006, 07:34 PM	#16
Tightrope Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 44	Well, you can easily find pure ammonia at Ace Hardware, which is why I ask. If it's no good for live rock, though, that's a good enough answer for me! I knew there had to be a good reason. Can't learn if I don't ask... __________________ So new, I don't know my wrasse from my elbow. Current Tank Info: 125 gal. Tropheus/Petrochromis to be turned into saltwater, 10g saltwater, 20 gal South American cichlids

10/06/2006, 07:43 PM	#17
Swanwillow goby girl Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bemidji MN Posts: 2,025	yes, you can use it... in VERY small amounts, and test test test after so ya don't destroy your tank by adding too much __________________ my advice:walk away. do nothing. til tomorrow. if its still alive, it will hopefully be fine. If you do not see it, do not try to find it. it may be hiding. just LEAVE it alone Current Tank Info: starting over! 125 gallon. Soon to be home to Blackfoot clowns, A. nigripes

10/06/2006, 08:04 PM	#18
sir_dudeguy Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 10,841	well with live rock theres no point because live rock will either A) have the die off that will cause amonia to get it going (this is uncured rock) or B) already be cycled and not need to be cycled...you'd likely just see a small spike..i didnt even get that. (this is cured rock) So if you got live rock, theres no point...if you got a canister, wet/dry, or hob filter ONLY then yes, you can do that. __________________ TAKE...LUCK!!!