Am I almost done cycling? Change Water???

saltman123 · 10/11/2006, 10:34 PM

I am hoping someone can help me figure out if I should be doing a water change, or if my tank is at the tip end of its cycle and I should wait.

I will post my parameters below, but first some quick info on my tank situation and setup.

SHOULD I CHANGE SOME WATER??

I have a 12 gallon aquapod that I set up on Sept 24th, which is almost 3 weeks ago. My live rock and sand came from a 2+ year old established tank when a friend was taking his tank down. So it shouldn't have had too much die off. I did add some more sand and took everything out of the water for the move so I would imagine it started cycling from being disturend.

For filtration I am using the stock sponge, and a bag of Chemi-pure for now. I am also using Walmart RO water for top offs and RO salted water from my lfs.

My Ammonia climbed and is coming back down, my Nitrite seems to be doing the same, but my Nitrate is through the roof, and has been since the very beginning.

My water chemistry has risen and fallen in Ammonia and Nitrites, so I think my cycle is well on its way. Don't be scared, here are my parameters for the days past:

9-25-06
Ammonia .25
Nitrite .05
Nitrate 25 to 50

9-26-06
Ammonia .25
Nitrite .05
Nitrate 25 to 50

9-27-06
Ammonia .25
Nitrite 0 to .05
Nitrate 25 to 50

9-28-06
Ammonia .20 -estimated
Nitrite 0 to .05
Nitrate 25 to 50

10-1-06
Ammonia .25 -estimated
Nitrite .05 to 1
Nitrate 50

10-2-06
Ammonia .20 -estimated
Nitrite .05
Nitrate 50

10-3-06
Ammonia .15 -estimated
Nitrite .05
Nitrate 50

10-4-06
Ammonia .15 -estimated
Nitrite .10
Nitrate 50

10-5-06
Ammonia .20 -estimated
Nitrite .10
Nitrate 50

10-7-06
Ammonia .10 -estimated
Nitrite .05
Nitrate 50

10-11-06
Ammonia .5 to .10 -estimated
Nitrite 0 to.05
Nitrate 50

Seems like my Ammonia is almost down to nothing, and my nitrite is also there. So should I change out some water to remove the Nitrate??????

Let me know if I should be changing out a gallon? More? Less? None? Anyone?

smketyr · 10/11/2006, 10:39 PM

Go ahead and give a gallon water change. Then keep monitoring your water. I did 5% water changes during my cycle, but I don't know if it helped or hurt it. Remember, patience is key to sucess in this hobby. Good Luck and enjoy!

saltman123 · 10/11/2006, 11:10 PM

I am doing my best holding out....so patience is definitely on my side this time.

I just want to be sure I am not waiting too long. I have 3 hermits that I inherited with my live rock and live sand and they seem to be happy. I even have some polyps and a mushroom that are doing great.

Was hoping to hear if people think I should change out some water or what. Anyone else?

tkeracer619 · 10/11/2006, 11:38 PM

Your cycle is not complete. Almost but not quite. I would do a small water change to try and get the nitrates down.

It won't hurt but might not help. Man I need to set up a 12g aquapod. 25% change for me is about 45 gallons.

saltman123 · 10/11/2006, 11:54 PM

So do you recommend maybe a 1 gallon water change? or 25%?

My Nitrates are off the chart in the red so I take it they are super high.

WOW, 45 gallon 25% water change is serious. You must spend lots on salt

bertoni · 10/12/2006, 12:21 AM

I'd probably do a 20% water change. The ammonia isn't all that high, but there might be secondary metabolites or toxins from dead organisms in the water, so a few changes are always a reasonable idea, in my opinion.

saltman123 · 10/12/2006, 12:33 AM

So I figure I will do about a 2 gallon change.

My Salinity is at 1.023. Should I slowly bump this up to 1.025-1.026?

bertoni · 10/12/2006, 12:36 AM

I run at 1.026-1.027, which is about the canonical average ocean SG. If you want to change the pH, I'd move it no more than 0.001 units every other day or so. This article covers all the water parameters:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php

This article might be useful in confirming the accuracy of your measuring device:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-06/rhf/index.php

saltman123 · 10/12/2006, 01:22 AM

I would like to raise up the salinity. So should I ideally go from 1.023 to a little more, to 1.024 and so forth?

How long should I ween it from 1.023 to 1.026? A week? 2 weeks?

Just checked my levels and they were:

10-12-06
Ammonia .05
Nitrite 0 to .05
Nitrate seemed to drop but it could have been a wacky test.

Doesn't Nitrate drop with water changes? and not usually itself?

tkeracer619 · 10/12/2006, 02:08 AM

Yes nitrates can be diluted with water changes.

You have live rock that will transform nitrates into nitrogen gas so some of the nitrates will go away on thier own once the cycle is complete. A deep sand bed also does this.

You can change the salinity in a few days time. Just make sure you mix the water in a separate container and not dump salt into the display.

Shagsbeard · 10/12/2006, 06:19 AM

Check your Walmart RO water for nitrates. That's probably the main source.

bertoni · 10/12/2006, 12:16 PM

Nitrite often interferes with nitrate tests, so I wouldn't worry much about the nitrate level just yet.

Triggerfish · 10/12/2006, 12:56 PM

unless there was loads of nitrate in the water you used to fill the tank..not sure where it would have came from on day 1.

i would suggest to double check the reading with a different test kit.. yours could be giving faulty readings.

saltman123 · 10/14/2006, 03:12 AM

I tested the Walmart water alone and its Nitrates read a hard 0. So no, that doesn't seem to be the issue. I actually bought my water from my LFS, and have only been topping off with Walmart water, and I have hardly done that because my tank didn't evaporate that much.

I am wondering if my LFS's salt mixed water is the problem?

My tank is getting sort of dirty looking. Green algae is randomly growing, and the sand is super dirty. Is that normal and will it go away once my cycle is done and I have a bigger clean up crew? I currentl have 3 hermits.

bertoni · 10/14/2006, 01:44 PM

New tanks often look grungy for a while. I just ignore it for a while.

cody-the-roo · 10/14/2006, 02:01 PM

I would probably recommend waiting until your ammonium and nitrites = 0. Then you might want to do a more massive water change (maybe a 50%), remeasure for a couple of days to see if you cause a mini cycle and followed by another massive water change.

This would be a good way to get the nitrates down. Just make sure you are measuring for minicycles. After the Amm and Nitrites = 0, you can add fish etc. Do it slowly (one fish at a time or maybe a pair if they are shy/pairing fish).

Yes, you do go through a lot of salt on the initial start up on the tank. A refugium (if you are planning on growing macroalgae) is a great way to keep nitrates down near zero and minimzing nuisance algae.

(the stuff you see on the bottom of the tank may be brown diatoms, they typically show up for a month or two after the tank has been up and running for a couple of months)

10/11/2006, 10:34 PM	#1
saltman123 Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: CT Posts: 1,048	Am I almost done cycling? Change Water??? I am hoping someone can help me figure out if I should be doing a water change, or if my tank is at the tip end of its cycle and I should wait. I will post my parameters below, but first some quick info on my tank situation and setup. SHOULD I CHANGE SOME WATER?? I have a 12 gallon aquapod that I set up on Sept 24th, which is almost 3 weeks ago. My live rock and sand came from a 2+ year old established tank when a friend was taking his tank down. So it shouldn't have had too much die off. I did add some more sand and took everything out of the water for the move so I would imagine it started cycling from being disturend. For filtration I am using the stock sponge, and a bag of Chemi-pure for now. I am also using Walmart RO water for top offs and RO salted water from my lfs. My Ammonia climbed and is coming back down, my Nitrite seems to be doing the same, but my Nitrate is through the roof, and has been since the very beginning. My water chemistry has risen and fallen in Ammonia and Nitrites, so I think my cycle is well on its way. Don't be scared, here are my parameters for the days past: 9-25-06 Ammonia .25 Nitrite .05 Nitrate 25 to 50 9-26-06 Ammonia .25 Nitrite .05 Nitrate 25 to 50 9-27-06 Ammonia .25 Nitrite 0 to .05 Nitrate 25 to 50 9-28-06 Ammonia .20 -estimated Nitrite 0 to .05 Nitrate 25 to 50 10-1-06 Ammonia .25 -estimated Nitrite .05 to 1 Nitrate 50 10-2-06 Ammonia .20 -estimated Nitrite .05 Nitrate 50 10-3-06 Ammonia .15 -estimated Nitrite .05 Nitrate 50 10-4-06 Ammonia .15 -estimated Nitrite .10 Nitrate 50 10-5-06 Ammonia .20 -estimated Nitrite .10 Nitrate 50 10-7-06 Ammonia .10 -estimated Nitrite .05 Nitrate 50 10-11-06 Ammonia .5 to .10 -estimated Nitrite 0 to.05 Nitrate 50 Seems like my Ammonia is almost down to nothing, and my nitrite is also there. So should I change out some water to remove the Nitrate?????? Let me know if I should be changing out a gallon? More? Less? None? Anyone? __________________ 12 Gallon Aquapod. 4 Gallon Pico-Coming Soon Current Tank Info: 12 Gallon Aquapod

10/11/2006, 10:39 PM	#2
smketyr Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Powers Lake, WI Posts: 506	Go ahead and give a gallon water change. Then keep monitoring your water. I did 5% water changes during my cycle, but I don't know if it helped or hurt it. Remember, patience is key to sucess in this hobby. Good Luck and enjoy! __________________ Hippopotmonstrosesquippedaliophobia- The fear of big words. Current Tank Info: Bio Cube 29, 55g reef

10/11/2006, 11:10 PM	#3
saltman123 Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: CT Posts: 1,048	I am doing my best holding out....so patience is definitely on my side this time. I just want to be sure I am not waiting too long. I have 3 hermits that I inherited with my live rock and live sand and they seem to be happy. I even have some polyps and a mushroom that are doing great. Was hoping to hear if people think I should change out some water or what. Anyone else? __________________ 12 Gallon Aquapod. 4 Gallon Pico-Coming Soon Current Tank Info: 12 Gallon Aquapod

10/11/2006, 11:38 PM	#4
tkeracer619 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Westminster, CO Posts: 17,289	Your cycle is not complete. Almost but not quite. I would do a small water change to try and get the nitrates down. It won't hurt but might not help. Man I need to set up a 12g aquapod. 25% change for me is about 45 gallons. __________________ Hobby Experience: 9200ish gallons, 26 skimmers, and a handful of Kent Scrapers. Current Tank: Vortech Powered 600G SPS Tank w/ 100gal frag tank & 100g Sump. RK2-RK10 Skimmer. ReefAngel. Radium 20k.

10/11/2006, 11:54 PM	#5
saltman123 Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: CT Posts: 1,048	So do you recommend maybe a 1 gallon water change? or 25%? My Nitrates are off the chart in the red so I take it they are super high. WOW, 45 gallon 25% water change is serious. You must spend lots on salt __________________ 12 Gallon Aquapod. 4 Gallon Pico-Coming Soon Current Tank Info: 12 Gallon Aquapod

10/12/2006, 12:21 AM	#6
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	I'd probably do a 20% water change. The ammonia isn't all that high, but there might be secondary metabolites or toxins from dead organisms in the water, so a few changes are always a reasonable idea, in my opinion. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

10/12/2006, 12:33 AM	#7
saltman123 Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: CT Posts: 1,048	So I figure I will do about a 2 gallon change. My Salinity is at 1.023. Should I slowly bump this up to 1.025-1.026? __________________ 12 Gallon Aquapod. 4 Gallon Pico-Coming Soon Current Tank Info: 12 Gallon Aquapod

10/12/2006, 12:36 AM	#8
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	I run at 1.026-1.027, which is about the canonical average ocean SG. If you want to change the pH, I'd move it no more than 0.001 units every other day or so. This article covers all the water parameters: http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php This article might be useful in confirming the accuracy of your measuring device: http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-06/rhf/index.php __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

10/12/2006, 01:22 AM	#9
saltman123 Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: CT Posts: 1,048	I would like to raise up the salinity. So should I ideally go from 1.023 to a little more, to 1.024 and so forth? How long should I ween it from 1.023 to 1.026? A week? 2 weeks? Just checked my levels and they were: 10-12-06 Ammonia .05 Nitrite 0 to .05 Nitrate seemed to drop but it could have been a wacky test. Doesn't Nitrate drop with water changes? and not usually itself? __________________ 12 Gallon Aquapod. 4 Gallon Pico-Coming Soon Current Tank Info: 12 Gallon Aquapod Last edited by saltman123; 10/12/2006 at 01:58 AM.

10/12/2006, 02:08 AM	#10
tkeracer619 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Westminster, CO Posts: 17,289	Yes nitrates can be diluted with water changes. You have live rock that will transform nitrates into nitrogen gas so some of the nitrates will go away on thier own once the cycle is complete. A deep sand bed also does this. You can change the salinity in a few days time. Just make sure you mix the water in a separate container and not dump salt into the display. __________________ Hobby Experience: 9200ish gallons, 26 skimmers, and a handful of Kent Scrapers. Current Tank: Vortech Powered 600G SPS Tank w/ 100gal frag tank & 100g Sump. RK2-RK10 Skimmer. ReefAngel. Radium 20k.

10/12/2006, 06:19 AM	#11
Shagsbeard Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Morro Bay, CA Posts: 2,143	Check your Walmart RO water for nitrates. That's probably the main source.

10/12/2006, 12:16 PM	#12
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	Nitrite often interferes with nitrate tests, so I wouldn't worry much about the nitrate level just yet. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

10/12/2006, 12:56 PM	#13
Triggerfish Registered Member Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 3,391	unless there was loads of nitrate in the water you used to fill the tank..not sure where it would have came from on day 1. i would suggest to double check the reading with a different test kit.. yours could be giving faulty readings. __________________ 150g Bow: YWG,Flurry clowns, LMB, yellow tail, chalk bass, Bangaii ,powder brown. Current Tank Info: 110g mixed reef

10/14/2006, 03:12 AM	#14
saltman123 Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: CT Posts: 1,048	I tested the Walmart water alone and its Nitrates read a hard 0. So no, that doesn't seem to be the issue. I actually bought my water from my LFS, and have only been topping off with Walmart water, and I have hardly done that because my tank didn't evaporate that much. I am wondering if my LFS's salt mixed water is the problem? My tank is getting sort of dirty looking. Green algae is randomly growing, and the sand is super dirty. Is that normal and will it go away once my cycle is done and I have a bigger clean up crew? I currentl have 3 hermits. __________________ 12 Gallon Aquapod. 4 Gallon Pico-Coming Soon Current Tank Info: 12 Gallon Aquapod

10/14/2006, 01:44 PM	#15
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	New tanks often look grungy for a while. I just ignore it for a while. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

10/14/2006, 02:01 PM	#16
cody-the-roo Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Pleasanton Posts: 52	I would probably recommend waiting until your ammonium and nitrites = 0. Then you might want to do a more massive water change (maybe a 50%), remeasure for a couple of days to see if you cause a mini cycle and followed by another massive water change. This would be a good way to get the nitrates down. Just make sure you are measuring for minicycles. After the Amm and Nitrites = 0, you can add fish etc. Do it slowly (one fish at a time or maybe a pair if they are shy/pairing fish). Yes, you do go through a lot of salt on the initial start up on the tank. A refugium (if you are planning on growing macroalgae) is a great way to keep nitrates down near zero and minimzing nuisance algae. (the stuff you see on the bottom of the tank may be brown diatoms, they typically show up for a month or two after the tank has been up and running for a couple of months)