Puffy is dead..getting po-ed now. Need to vent before I scream!

[Ocicat]

Originally posted by techreef
How long do you hypo QT'ers take to lower your QT water down to hypo levels from your normal levels? I assume you can't just toss fish from your display into a QT set at .09 salinity. Also on my mind is, once you have your QT running at .09, what do you do when you buy a new fish and bring it home to QT before adding to your display tank? Can you drip acclimate the new fish into the QT tank, or is that just too far of a change ("normal" salinity to .09) to do through drip acclimation?

Here is a great article that explains in detail how to do hypo:
http://www.petsforum.com/personal/tr...osalinity.html

Please note that you are lowering to 1.009, not 0.09.

I don't know the answer on how to adapt a new fish to water that's already at hypo levels, but I have wondered the same thing myself - Hopefully someone else will chime in on that point. I do know that lowering the SG isn't nearly as likely to bother the fish as raising it - you have to raise it very gradually when you're ready to put the fish into your display.

[Ursus]

Yes, hypo or copper used properly will kill all parasites, but only those in the QT. I merely stated that used in a QT, there are no negatives. On a display, it could possibly reduce the amount of food for coral in the water column. I wouldn't say it is a waste of money, but I would try and get one used.

[techreef]

thanks for the great article ocicat. boy, i wish that dealing with ich was my problem right now! (fighting 2 cirolanids that attacked my first fish, a midas blenny, upon introduction to the display.) but at least I'm better educated about ich and hypo treatments now.

[bureau13]

Not to be picky, but if you're treating in a way that will kill all parasites, what is the upside of adding a UV to the equation? And there is a significant downside if you're treating with copper, or at least Cupramine...you have to turn it off during this time anyway.

jds

Originally posted by Ursus
Yes, hypo or copper used properly will kill all parasites, but only those in the QT. I merely stated that used in a QT, there are no negatives. On a display, it could possibly reduce the amount of food for coral in the water column. I wouldn't say it is a waste of money, but I would try and get one used.

[tkeracer619]

Originally posted by Shooter7
Where are these "many people" and who decided it was a myth? Just curious.

I don't really know what you guys are talking about but the post before you said cleaning copper out of stuff. Myth? What a joke. Copper doesnt stay. I have a 55g qt that I am running copper right now. I never tear it down. To get rid of copper I do 2 or 3 large water changes. Then run carbon, change the carbon and we are all good to go. Before the carbon is used copper will show up very faint on the test kit. After a week of carbon it does not register. I have cleaned many pumps that were in copper. I soak them for a week in a trash bag lined sink and change the water every few days. I havent had a problem yet.

__________________________________

Ich is easy to get rid of. Fallow tank for 8weeks. QT all fish for the same 8 weeks (time to decide the treatment, treatment, was it succesful). QT all wet items in separate fallow tank for 8 weeks.

Courtney, look at it this way. I learned about proper QT procedures in my fully stocked 150 while adding that last fish I wanted. I lost an easy 500 bucks worth of fish in that deal. I lost 8 in about 12 hours. Ich is the last of your worries. Proper qt will kick that. What you have to remember is that a QT tank isn't gonna keep the fish alive. It keeps them from dying in your main display. I loose about ~ 5% of fish in my qt. Going slow is were it is at. If you have 10 fish in qt and one has brook now 10 have brook and maybe 60% of them will live through it if you catch it fast enough. Add one or two fish to qt to treat. If there is a problem you won't be out so much.

I don't go to vegas for gambling I go for the cocktail waitress. Tip well get better drinks ^^. The gambling is just what I use to pass the time.

[techigirl78]

Originally posted by tkeracer619
I don't really know what you guys are talking about but the post before you said cleaning copper out of stuff. Myth? What a joke. Copper doesnt stay. I have a 55g qt that I am running copper right now. I never tear it down. To get rid of copper I do 2 or 3 large water changes. Then run carbon, change the carbon and we are all good to go. Before the carbon is used copper will show up very faint on the test kit. After a week of carbon it does not register. I have cleaned many pumps that were in copper. I soak them for a week in a trash bag lined sink and change the water every few days. I havent had a problem yet.

Copper can leach out over time, killing sensitive inverts. I would agree that equipment can be sometimes used after cleaning. However, any porus substance like sand, live rock, sponges, biomedia, etc. shouldn't be reused.

Courtney - Don't put copper in your main. You'll likely regret it at some point.

As for UV Sterilizers, I would say that they do work to an extent. They help to keep water clear and free swimming parasite numbers down (if it is the appropriate size and the correct flow is running through them). However, they also kill things that you don't want them to, use bulbs that need to be replaced every six months, and just add to your electricity bill. Like everything in the hobby, there are pros and cons. You'll always hear different opinions and you just need to find what works for you. From my perspective, I've got two sitting in a rubbermaid storage container in my basement.

Also - When your main is fallow for 8 weeks - keep the temp running normal. Sometimes people turn the temp down making the parasite go dormant.

[jmack]

For what's is worth, I was battling ich constantly then got a uv sterilizer...I know they say it doesn't cure ich but I do think it at least slows down the cycle by killing the free-floating stage of the parasite. That way the when the ich attached to the fish dies hopefully they won't get re-infected. I haven't had much of a problem since then..I don't think it's cured but I do think it's controlled...it might be worth a try. Also make sure you are keeping stable temps especially when you change the water.

I don't have a quarantine tank but I do a freshwater dip on every fish that goes in the tank.

[courtneyclv]

Well the bad news is that my firefish was found dead today in my main tank?? The good news is that I couldn't catch him anyways..to put him in the QT for two months.

I tested the water, all good. everything was 0, temp 78, ph 8.2. I am not sure what happened to him. Maybe he had ich and it wasn't visible with spots? He always hid in his house..a rock, so I never saw him the last several days.

Anyways, foxface looks good, no more ich spots. I have decided to not go fish only (only fish and fake stuff) and keep what I have. I will give this QT procedure a try before I give up!

So....no more fish in the main tank until New Years Day. I will quarantine all new fish for two months and will keep foxface in there as well. I will do water changes within the next two weeks to get rid of any copper that may still be in the QT and will add all of the filter media back to take out any copper that may still be in there.

I will also look into a UV sterl. What do you suggest I get for my 80 gallon, size, brand? I would rather be safe than sorry, even with mixed views of them.

Thank you for your advice!

Courtney

[BTTRFLYGRL]

If you started copper on the Foxface, I would go ahead and finish. It takes at least two weeks with most copper medicines. If you quit early, the ich may return.


There are so many UV's. A lot depends on if you plumb it inline or use it as a HOB. Not sure if you have a sump or not?
AquaUV's are supposed to be excellent. I believe they are all plumbed inline.
UV's to hang on tank- Gamma, Coralife

[blackheart]

Listen Ich is an ever present parisite in your tank. It will always be there. NO MATTER WHAT. when you use hyposalinity it goes in recession however you are not killing it totally. This is just the truth. when you add a new fish into the tank there will always be dominace struggles this in affect stresses the fish which makes them more prone to having an ich out break. With that being said a good idea to lower stress levels in you tank is to get enough live rock in there that the new and old fish for that matter can get away from and hide from each other when needed. Just think if you never had away time from even your best friend things would get stressful. So what you need to do is up your live rock level in the tank to about 100 lbs make it nice with caves and all. This fallow idea is nice but again it is something said to make you slow down. Put this rock into your tank let the tank go through a mini cycle then start adding fish. ONE AT A TIME!!! starting with the smallest least aggresive moving to the larger more agressive give the fish a week or two before adding new ones. I also recommend a clearner goby or wrasse and to cleaner shrimp. If you have a puffer get the cleaner wrasse because he is tougher and will not get eattin.

lastly feed you fish cyclopeez it will boost thier immune system and help them get over sicknesses. Just remember to take it slow

[Sk8r]

Courtney, when a fish takes to hiding without a threat present, it's not good...ich can be a cause.

Rough start you've had. When you start up, selecting fish again, qt, but also look over the fish you buy very carefully: watch for the following signs of ill health: sunken stomach [starvation to failure], swollen stomach [more than others of species], red areas [infection], gill tissue visible outside the gill cover [swelling], dots, film, of course, respiration rate elevated above rest, ragged fin, missing scales, stringy poop; and get them to feed the fish, so you can see what it eats, and THAT it eats. Don't pick the fish you feel sorry for; pick the healthiest, pushiest sob in the tank, and doublecheck the tank after they've caught yours to be sure they got the right fish. One of the reasons veteran reefers don't get into trouble as often is knowing the signs of disease and malnourishment: a pity-buy is the most dangerous thing you can do for the rest of your fish.

[bureau13]

You're absolutely right. Its a little known fact that ich is actually the missing third element in the water molecule, along with hydrogen and oxygen.

Seriously...stop propagating mythology, take a breath, and go read ANYTHING about these parasites that's written by a qualified expert. I'm not talking about me (Lord knows I'm no expert at any of this stuff) or anyone else randomly posting on the forum, but actual published experts...you can find some at wet web media or there are articles linked in the stickies at the top of the fish disease forum. Its just completely irresponsible to spout this crap that has absolutely no basis in scientific fact. Its hard enough to figure this stuff out when you're starting up without misinformation such as this flying around.

jds

Originally posted by blackheart
Listen Ich is an ever present parisite in your tank. It will always be there. NO MATTER WHAT. when you use hyposalinity it goes in recession however you are not killing it totally. This is just the truth. when you add a new fish into the tank there will always be dominace struggles this in affect stresses the fish which makes them more prone to having an ich out break. With that being said a good idea to lower stress levels in you tank is to get enough live rock in there that the new and old fish for that matter can get away from and hide from each other when needed. Just think if you never had away time from even your best friend things would get stressful. So what you need to do is up your live rock level in the tank to about 100 lbs make it nice with caves and all. This fallow idea is nice but again it is something said to make you slow down. Put this rock into your tank let the tank go through a mini cycle then start adding fish. ONE AT A TIME!!! starting with the smallest least aggresive moving to the larger more agressive give the fish a week or two before adding new ones. I also recommend a clearner goby or wrasse and to cleaner shrimp. If you have a puffer get the cleaner wrasse because he is tougher and will not get eattin.

lastly feed you fish cyclopeez it will boost thier immune system and help them get over sicknesses. Just remember to take it slow

[blackheart]

I'm sorry i must have been asleep the four years it took me to get my micro biology degree. Now If you computer dork think that you can believe anything you read on the internet then feel free i will go with what a "qualified expert" as you put it told me. I didn't come here to fight
good luck and good bye

[bureau13]

If you believe the crap you were spewing in the previous post then yeah...I'm thinking you must have been asleep.

jds

[TippyToeX]

Here at Reef Central, we believe that dialogs between participants should be conducted in a friendly and helpful manner. If you disagree with a posting, please express yourself in a way that is conducive to further constructive dialog. Conversely, when you post on any given subject, you must be willing to accept constructive criticism without posting a hostile or inflammatory response. Personal attacks of any kind will not be tolerated. Please work to insure that Reef Central remains a friendly and flame free site where everyone, especially newcomers, can feel free to post questions without fear of being unfairly criticized. Thank you for your cooperation.

Guys, keep it civil. Disagreeing is fine, but don't get personal.

[Reefdiver77]

I had several fish come down with ich over a year ago. In fact, it was the day before I was leaving for a 2 week vacation. I quickly sat up a 29 gal spare tank I had for QT and kept the fish in there for 8 weeks. I treated with copper.The Blue Spotted Watchman Goby remained in the display tank and never came down with ich. One clown recovered and one died. The royal gramma also recovered. I was instructed by the owner of LFS, who is also a sponser of my local reef club, to clean all the equipment I had in the QT tank (therm, heater, powerhead, HOB filter) with bleach & rinse really good. I have had no further outbreaks of ich. I did clean the equipment with bleach and have used the powerhead in my display tank with no obvious harmful effect. I also have a QT 6 gal I can set up for zoos, mushrooms, etc. Our local reef club has entire QT setups that we loan out to our members as needed.

[DgenR8]

Some factual info on ICH Marine Ich/Cryptocaryon irritans

A discussion of this parasite and the treatment options available.

[tkeracer619]

..

[tkeracer619]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by techigirl78
[B]Copper can leach out over time, killing sensitive inverts. I would agree that equipment can be sometimes used after cleaning. However, any porus substance like sand, live rock, sponges, biomedia, etc. shouldn't be reused.

Yup copper will definitly take up home in porus stuff. An ideal Qt is a bare bottom tank with pvc hiding spots. My qt has no porus material and has done quite well when removing the copper. It only takes about a week to get it to undetectable levels. I still would not toss a bunch of snails and corals in the tank. They have a qt of thier own.

[courtneyclv]

Thank you for the advice everyone! I will try to save this post and keep all of the info for future reference.

Oh, I don't have a sump because my tank is in this window cubby. What kind of UV ster. should I get then? Is there a good place online that has them less expensive?

As far as stress goes..I think that the temperature may be the cause. In the summer we keep our house warm, around 80 or so..and do not need the heat on. In the fall and then spring, we open the doors and windows when it gets too warm. Soo..I need to somehow keep it from flucuatiing. It would never get too hot, but rather, kind of chilly. from around 80 to sometimes 86.

AND..silly fiancee did add a niger trigger to MY tank when I told him not too. (he chased some of the smaller fish) It stressed out my old batch of fish and that is when I got the ich outbreak.... I figured it out!

[tkeracer619]

Having a stable temp is pretty important.

86 is too hot for a reef tank. I keep my tank at 79-80 deg. 82-83 max on a super hot day.

some things to try to level it out-

Set the heater to come on around 79 degrees.

Get a temperature controlled fan blowing air across the top of the tank.

If the tank gets direct sunlight it will be hard to keep the temps under control. Also it might promote unwanted algae growth.

Glad RC could be of some help to you. If you have any other questions don't hesitate to ask.

[dsieber]

Courtney

Sorry about your loss. Last year I was in the same situation. Our Porq. Puffer (who my wife bonded with and now wants nothing to do with the tank) died of Ich. In my case it was to much too soon without QT. I stongly suggest you spend the time to read an epic thread with advice on QT. Jeff and Chrisy Brig are cutting new ground for practical QT. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/index.php?s=

[dsieber]

Jeff and Christy's link is http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...hreadid=708066