whats the best light bulb for my SPS only tank

trueblackpercula · 11/13/2006, 05:37 PM

Its time to change my bulb and with all the lighting on the market today I just can't decide. I am looking for growth and color and suggesting would be greatly appreciated. I have a 250 watt SE 13k megachrome run by a icecap electronic Ballast. I supplement with 150watts of VHO super actinic URI. The tank is 30 deep but most of the corals are 20 inches below the water line. If you have pictures that would help as well but I am going to poll this to see what everyone else is using. I do not care about price just results

6500K Iwasaki
10000K Ushio
10000K Aqualine
13000K Megachrome
14000K Hamilton
20000K Radium
If there are others that are better please tell me about them
Michael

Avast Marine · 11/13/2006, 11:57 PM

growth = saki
color=radium
you might like the ushio for something in the middle

LNell · 11/14/2006, 01:12 AM

You don't have my pick. I would go with the 10000K EVC bulbs. It's what Sanjay uses on the PSU tank and his personal tank, if I'm not mistaken. If it's good enough for him, it's good enough for me!

hahnmeister · 11/14/2006, 02:50 AM

The G-man 13,000K is an often underestimated bulb. It nearly has the output of any 10,000K, and is crisp enough that you could run it w/o actinics and not be bothered by it at all. Most people just dont know about it, or have no opinion because they have never seen it (it is a little pricey)... but its a sweeet bulb.

My bulb choice would be heavily influenced by what, if any, supplimental actinics/blue bulbs I was using. I prefer to use a 2:1 wattage ratio of halide to T5, with the T5s being blue+ and actinics. You can use whatever you like... Sakis, Ushios, XMs... they all will look good with this combo because the intensity of the blue+ T5s takes care of everything.

trueblackpercula · 11/14/2006, 06:48 PM

Maybe i should just keep what I have then. I just want to see what everyone else has to say only because I never hear or read about anyone else using this bulb. There are other bulbs out there as well like the aquaconect but you can't even find them.
Michael

trueblackpercula · 11/15/2006, 06:01 PM

very close race so far I will give it until saturday. Thanks everyone for all your input.
Michael

hahnmeister · 11/15/2006, 07:12 PM

Well, this survey isnt very useful, I can see already. Its like asking people what they like for submersable pumps... many people will post that they like Mags, simply because thats what they see the most or bought the most of themselves. In reality, the Mag-drive pumps are crap in comparison to eheims and oceanrunners, but fewer people buy those brands due to the cost, so what you have isnt a quality survey, but a popularity survey. The same goes here.
I just say this because I wouldnt place alot of stock in all those people saying how much they love their 14,000K hamiltons... they are cheap bulbs, and look okay, so alot of people buy them. in reality, their output blows and they are relatively short lived, not to mention have had numerous QC problems in the past (the 400 watt versions are one of the best 400s you can get, but the 250wattSE version blows). You are also asking about SE bulbs I take it.... something you havent explained in the question itself. People who have a DE version of some of the bulbs you list will respond even though the bulb itself is very different. Ill admit, my impressions of the Megachrome 13,000K are from the DE version... and that bulb can be very different from the SE one (this is very true of XM bulbs it seems). You also havent said what is most important to you... growth, color, etc. A radium is an excellent bulb by any standard... I just doubt it would do you any good over a 30" cube tank... you would need 3 or 4 of them to have the output you really need for SPS, if thats what you wanted to grow with them. FWIW, on a tank your size, maybe the only bulb you should be considering is the 6500K simply because you need the output for SPS with that little amount of wattage on such a large/tall tank.

It seems what you have here is a poll based on price. I bet those who voted for the Hamilton have never used an Aqualine or Geisemann simply because they are so much more expensive, even though they are much better bulbs.

Sorry, but I gotta say it... the results you are getting arent very useful. If you qualified it by saying 'only those who have seen all of these bulbs in action can respond' the results would be very different.

I have, except for the G-man which I have only seen in HQI/DE (I own one).

trueblackpercula · 11/15/2006, 07:35 PM

Quote:

You are also asking about SE bulbs I take it.... something you havent explained in the question itself

I have a 250 watt SE 13k megachrome run by a icecap electronic

Quote:

You also havent said what is most important to you... growth, color, etc

I am looking for growth and color

Quote:

I just doubt it would do you any good over a 30" cube tank... you would need 3 or 4 of them to have the output you really need for SPS

most of the corals are 20 inches below the water line

Thanks for all you input so is it safe to say I already have the best bulb for my tank? Or should i try and give ushio 10k a try? I would like to knoe more about the aqauline 13k but can not find any info on it do you?
Thanks for all your help
Michael

BreadmanMike · 11/15/2006, 07:36 PM

I'm not sure how willing you are to make changes to your ballast, etc....

If it were me I would use a Lumenarc reflector and run a 400w Radium on an HQI ballast. You get great color and very good growth. The negative to this is you have to replace the bulb every six months and it's a big power draw.

McCrary · 11/15/2006, 08:12 PM

My tank is 30" tall and I run 10K Ushios, which put out some pretty serious light. I have sps frags that have broken and fallen to my sand bed and are growing out from there (thats almost 30" down). So the power is plenty, but it can look a little yellow (but T5's even that right out). The Gieseman powerchrome bulbs are very nice, but IMHO not worth the extra dough. Some just see the name and that seems to justify the price (but if you have extra cash to blow).

BraenDead · 11/15/2006, 08:22 PM

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the XM 10k bulb? This would be my preferred choice given that you are running actinic supplmentation. It has the highest output for a SE 250W bulb on your ballast (higher than an Iwaski) and has a rather decent correlated color temperature, much higher than other bulbs close to it's output.

A list of bulbs Sanjay has tested on the 250W icecap electronic ballast, ordered by highest PPFD to lower PPFD:

http://www.reeflightinginfo.arvixe.c...&Submit=Submit

Bob

hahnmeister · 11/15/2006, 11:12 PM

Well, heck, if were listing other options... Ill toss Pheonix 14,000K into the ring, but it would require a DE fixture swap-out. Higher output/PAR than the Ushio 10,000K, and the looks of a radium 20,000K. Its a hard bulb to beat, and its cheap... www.illuming.com has em for $55 shipped.

twon8 · 11/15/2006, 11:30 PM

my vote would be for aquaconnect 14k, but as you said they are near impossible to find

trueblackpercula · 11/16/2006, 04:19 PM

Is the aquaconnect available in se version? Were do i get one if thats what is best? I see that the ushio 10 k is winning right now.
Michael

surfjeepzx · 11/16/2006, 04:34 PM

You can see in my current tank description below what I have. I wil say this regarding the 10K ushios THEY ROCK!!!

My tank is 31" deep. I had a single 10K 400w on a electronic Icecap supplemented by 4 reflected actinics VHO. I was happy with that but the single bulb in the center of the tank was leaving some shady spots, but the light was good.. Everything grows well.

This past weekend I replaced the single 400 with 2 10K ushio 250's running Icecap elect ballasts. I was shocked how much of a difference they made! BIG difference in coverage and light output.

The tank never looked so good and now that some of the shady spots are well lit I can place more corals in the tank.

twon8 · 11/16/2006, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by trueblackpercula
Is the aquaconnect available in se version? Were do i get one if thats what is best? I see that the ushio 10 k is winning right now.
Michael

i have the 250w se version, as to where to get them...

got mine here on rc from someone who had backordered them and since switched to 400w's, so he had no use for them.

i dont' understand why they aren't sold by someone here

trueblackpercula · 11/16/2006, 05:44 PM

I just got off the phone with eric from frafamer and he is out of stock as well. What does the bulb look like can you post a picture? He also told me that the bulb i have now is awsome and should keep it the same way.
Michael

twon8 · 11/16/2006, 06:35 PM

i don't have any pics of the bulb; i have seen one somewhere, let me see if i can find it.

trueblackpercula · 11/16/2006, 06:37 PM

not of the bulb but a picture of your tank with the bulb over it showing your corals

Michael

hahnmeister · 11/16/2006, 06:49 PM

comodity axis

trueblackpercula · 11/19/2006, 12:54 PM

A tie that stinks ...............................

BraenDead · 11/19/2006, 02:31 PM

I don't understand why the 14k hamilton is even being considered. They have horrible growth with SPS (yes, I ran them for 9 months). Every test out there shows they have some of the worst output out there. They do have decent color but if you are also looking for growth I wouldn't consider this bulb at all.

Bob

Sk8r · 11/19/2006, 03:26 PM

I use 10000k ushio and montipora and certain acros grow well: montipora is practically a weed---I'm only 8mos old and just fragged out something like 14 largish frags of the same size as the 2 I started with...but the color-appearance of the tank as a whole is pukey and my blues tend to brown a bit. It's a very yellow light. I supplement with actinics.

trueblackpercula · 11/19/2006, 03:49 PM

aaaaaaaaaaa finaly some truth about usho bulb Thanks.

orangekush4 · 11/19/2006, 05:46 PM

I have used about every bulb out ther in 175w to 250w and my vote is for the hami 14k.I dont understand when peaple say thay dont get any good growth out of the hamis.
Ushio 10k are good but to yellow
XM are way to strong for some corals and i sell plant bulbs and they XM look like alot of the Plant MHs.
Radiums are ok they dont last long
Reeflux 10k are ok to pink on ec ballest and mag ballest
reeflux 12k are good
Ushio 65k are way to yellow but color up millis real good and some other sps
13k megacrome my buddy uses and it is just like the 14k hamis i have done some par reading on them
xm 20k are good but dont last long
I have alot more other bulbs that i have used that arnt worth lesting.

View Poll Results: whats the best for growth and color
6500K Ushio	6	11.32%
10000K Ushio	12	22.64%
10000K Aqualine	7	13.21%
13000K Megachrome	7	13.21%
14000K Hamilton	10	18.87%
20000K Radium	11	20.75%
Voters: 53. You may not vote on this poll

11/13/2006, 05:37 PM	#1
trueblackpercula Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: STATEN ISLAND Posts: 7,517	whats the best light bulb for my SPS only tank Its time to change my bulb and with all the lighting on the market today I just can't decide. I am looking for growth and color and suggesting would be greatly appreciated. I have a 250 watt SE 13k megachrome run by a icecap electronic Ballast. I supplement with 150watts of VHO super actinic URI. The tank is 30 deep but most of the corals are 20 inches below the water line. If you have pictures that would help as well but I am going to poll this to see what everyone else is using. I do not care about price just results 6500K Iwasaki 10000K Ushio 10000K Aqualine 13000K Megachrome 14000K Hamilton 20000K Radium If there are others that are better please tell me about them Michael __________________ Life is to short to buy frags ! But for FREE I'LL take them ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. >((((º> LIVE SAND ITS THE CURE........® Current Tank Info: 120 CUBE Live sand Mitras lx6100hv MRC MR 2 single becket MP40 power head Aquamedic dosing pump using B-ionic

11/13/2006, 11:57 PM	#2
Avast Marine RC Sponsor Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Northern VA Posts: 2,446	growth = saki color=radium you might like the ushio for something in the middle __________________ Dan Don't rush art, you get bad art.

11/14/2006, 06:48 PM	#5
trueblackpercula Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: STATEN ISLAND Posts: 7,517	Maybe i should just keep what I have then. I just want to see what everyone else has to say only because I never hear or read about anyone else using this bulb. There are other bulbs out there as well like the aquaconect but you can't even find them. Michael __________________ Life is to short to buy frags ! But for FREE I'LL take them ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. >((((º> LIVE SAND ITS THE CURE........® Current Tank Info: 120 CUBE Live sand Mitras lx6100hv MRC MR 2 single becket MP40 power head Aquamedic dosing pump using B-ionic

11/15/2006, 06:01 PM	#6
trueblackpercula Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: STATEN ISLAND Posts: 7,517	very close race so far I will give it until saturday. Thanks everyone for all your input. Michael __________________ Life is to short to buy frags ! But for FREE I'LL take them ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. >((((º> LIVE SAND ITS THE CURE........® Current Tank Info: 120 CUBE Live sand Mitras lx6100hv MRC MR 2 single becket MP40 power head Aquamedic dosing pump using B-ionic

11/14/2006, 01:12 AM	#3
LNell Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: GA Posts: 211	You don't have my pick. I would go with the 10000K EVC bulbs. It's what Sanjay uses on the PSU tank and his personal tank, if I'm not mistaken. If it's good enough for him, it's good enough for me!

11/14/2006, 02:50 AM	#4
hahnmeister Moved On Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Brew City, WI Posts: 10,156	The G-man 13,000K is an often underestimated bulb. It nearly has the output of any 10,000K, and is crisp enough that you could run it w/o actinics and not be bothered by it at all. Most people just dont know about it, or have no opinion because they have never seen it (it is a little pricey)... but its a sweeet bulb. My bulb choice would be heavily influenced by what, if any, supplimental actinics/blue bulbs I was using. I prefer to use a 2:1 wattage ratio of halide to T5, with the T5s being blue+ and actinics. You can use whatever you like... Sakis, Ushios, XMs... they all will look good with this combo because the intensity of the blue+ T5s takes care of everything.

11/15/2006, 07:12 PM	#7
hahnmeister Moved On Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Brew City, WI Posts: 10,156	Well, this survey isnt very useful, I can see already. Its like asking people what they like for submersable pumps... many people will post that they like Mags, simply because thats what they see the most or bought the most of themselves. In reality, the Mag-drive pumps are crap in comparison to eheims and oceanrunners, but fewer people buy those brands due to the cost, so what you have isnt a quality survey, but a popularity survey. The same goes here. I just say this because I wouldnt place alot of stock in all those people saying how much they love their 14,000K hamiltons... they are cheap bulbs, and look okay, so alot of people buy them. in reality, their output blows and they are relatively short lived, not to mention have had numerous QC problems in the past (the 400 watt versions are one of the best 400s you can get, but the 250wattSE version blows). You are also asking about SE bulbs I take it.... something you havent explained in the question itself. People who have a DE version of some of the bulbs you list will respond even though the bulb itself is very different. Ill admit, my impressions of the Megachrome 13,000K are from the DE version... and that bulb can be very different from the SE one (this is very true of XM bulbs it seems). You also havent said what is most important to you... growth, color, etc. A radium is an excellent bulb by any standard... I just doubt it would do you any good over a 30" cube tank... you would need 3 or 4 of them to have the output you really need for SPS, if thats what you wanted to grow with them. FWIW, on a tank your size, maybe the only bulb you should be considering is the 6500K simply because you need the output for SPS with that little amount of wattage on such a large/tall tank. It seems what you have here is a poll based on price. I bet those who voted for the Hamilton have never used an Aqualine or Geisemann simply because they are so much more expensive, even though they are much better bulbs. Sorry, but I gotta say it... the results you are getting arent very useful. If you qualified it by saying 'only those who have seen all of these bulbs in action can respond' the results would be very different. I have, except for the G-man which I have only seen in HQI/DE (I own one).

11/15/2006, 07:36 PM	#9
BreadmanMike Moved On Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,886	I'm not sure how willing you are to make changes to your ballast, etc.... If it were me I would use a Lumenarc reflector and run a 400w Radium on an HQI ballast. You get great color and very good growth. The negative to this is you have to replace the bulb every six months and it's a big power draw.

11/15/2006, 08:12 PM	#10
McCrary Can't Stop Time Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,079	My tank is 30" tall and I run 10K Ushios, which put out some pretty serious light. I have sps frags that have broken and fallen to my sand bed and are growing out from there (thats almost 30" down). So the power is plenty, but it can look a little yellow (but T5's even that right out). The Gieseman powerchrome bulbs are very nice, but IMHO not worth the extra dough. Some just see the name and that seems to justify the price (but if you have extra cash to blow). __________________ Matt Patience is the best remedy for every trouble. Titus Maccius Plautus (254 BC - 184 BC), Rudens

11/15/2006, 08:22 PM	#11
BraenDead Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 1,007	I'm surprised no one has mentioned the XM 10k bulb? This would be my preferred choice given that you are running actinic supplmentation. It has the highest output for a SE 250W bulb on your ballast (higher than an Iwaski) and has a rather decent correlated color temperature, much higher than other bulbs close to it's output. A list of bulbs Sanjay has tested on the 250W icecap electronic ballast, ordered by highest PPFD to lower PPFD: http://www.reeflightinginfo.arvixe.c...&Submit=Submit Bob

11/15/2006, 11:12 PM	#12
hahnmeister Moved On Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Brew City, WI Posts: 10,156	Well, heck, if were listing other options... Ill toss Pheonix 14,000K into the ring, but it would require a DE fixture swap-out. Higher output/PAR than the Ushio 10,000K, and the looks of a radium 20,000K. Its a hard bulb to beat, and its cheap... www.illuming.com has em for $55 shipped.

11/15/2006, 11:30 PM	#13
twon8 Formally registered membe Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: slightly sw of richmond, va Posts: 5,920	my vote would be for aquaconnect 14k, but as you said they are near impossible to find __________________ Anthony Richmond Reef Club "and as things fell apart, nobody paid much attention." Not building a wall but making a brick Current Tank Info: 300g DD display, 60g frag tank

11/16/2006, 04:19 PM	#14
trueblackpercula Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: STATEN ISLAND Posts: 7,517	Is the aquaconnect available in se version? Were do i get one if thats what is best? I see that the ushio 10 k is winning right now. Michael __________________ Life is to short to buy frags ! But for FREE I'LL take them ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. >((((º> LIVE SAND ITS THE CURE........® Current Tank Info: 120 CUBE Live sand Mitras lx6100hv MRC MR 2 single becket MP40 power head Aquamedic dosing pump using B-ionic

11/16/2006, 04:34 PM	#15
surfjeepzx Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Wilbur by the Sea, FL Posts: 842	You can see in my current tank description below what I have. I wil say this regarding the 10K ushios THEY ROCK!!! My tank is 31" deep. I had a single 10K 400w on a electronic Icecap supplemented by 4 reflected actinics VHO. I was happy with that but the single bulb in the center of the tank was leaving some shady spots, but the light was good.. Everything grows well. This past weekend I replaced the single 400 with 2 10K ushio 250's running Icecap elect ballasts. I was shocked how much of a difference they made! BIG difference in coverage and light output. The tank never looked so good and now that some of the shady spots are well lit I can place more corals in the tank. __________________ << All that matters Current Tank Info: 135 Acrylic flatback hex. 30 gallon sump. Twin Coralvue 250w MH's w/ 14k Hamiltons, Icecap 660 VHO, 4 URI reflected 110 actinic's. Rio 17hf return & 2 mj1200's (mod'd) pwrhds in tank. All natural... seawater Last edited by surfjeepzx; 11/16/2006 at 04:49 PM.

11/16/2006, 05:44 PM	#17
trueblackpercula Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: STATEN ISLAND Posts: 7,517	I just got off the phone with eric from frafamer and he is out of stock as well. What does the bulb look like can you post a picture? He also told me that the bulb i have now is awsome and should keep it the same way. Michael __________________ Life is to short to buy frags ! But for FREE I'LL take them ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. >((((º> LIVE SAND ITS THE CURE........® Current Tank Info: 120 CUBE Live sand Mitras lx6100hv MRC MR 2 single becket MP40 power head Aquamedic dosing pump using B-ionic

11/16/2006, 06:35 PM	#18
twon8 Formally registered membe Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: slightly sw of richmond, va Posts: 5,920	i don't have any pics of the bulb; i have seen one somewhere, let me see if i can find it. __________________ Anthony Richmond Reef Club "and as things fell apart, nobody paid much attention." Not building a wall but making a brick Current Tank Info: 300g DD display, 60g frag tank

11/16/2006, 06:37 PM	#19
trueblackpercula Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: STATEN ISLAND Posts: 7,517	not of the bulb but a picture of your tank with the bulb over it showing your corals Michael __________________ Life is to short to buy frags ! But for FREE I'LL take them ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. >((((º> LIVE SAND ITS THE CURE........® Current Tank Info: 120 CUBE Live sand Mitras lx6100hv MRC MR 2 single becket MP40 power head Aquamedic dosing pump using B-ionic

11/16/2006, 06:49 PM	#20
hahnmeister Moved On Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Brew City, WI Posts: 10,156	comodity axis

11/19/2006, 12:54 PM	#21
trueblackpercula Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: STATEN ISLAND Posts: 7,517	A tie that stinks ............................... __________________ Life is to short to buy frags ! But for FREE I'LL take them ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. >((((º> LIVE SAND ITS THE CURE........® Current Tank Info: 120 CUBE Live sand Mitras lx6100hv MRC MR 2 single becket MP40 power head Aquamedic dosing pump using B-ionic

11/19/2006, 02:31 PM	#22
BraenDead Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 1,007	I don't understand why the 14k hamilton is even being considered. They have horrible growth with SPS (yes, I ran them for 9 months). Every test out there shows they have some of the worst output out there. They do have decent color but if you are also looking for growth I wouldn't consider this bulb at all. Bob

11/19/2006, 03:26 PM	#23
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	I use 10000k ushio and montipora and certain acros grow well: montipora is practically a weed---I'm only 8mos old and just fragged out something like 14 largish frags of the same size as the 2 I started with...but the color-appearance of the tank as a whole is pukey and my blues tend to brown a bit. It's a very yellow light. I supplement with actinics. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

11/19/2006, 03:49 PM	#24
trueblackpercula Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: STATEN ISLAND Posts: 7,517	aaaaaaaaaaa finaly some truth about usho bulb Thanks. __________________ Life is to short to buy frags ! But for FREE I'LL take them ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. >((((º> LIVE SAND ITS THE CURE........® Current Tank Info: 120 CUBE Live sand Mitras lx6100hv MRC MR 2 single becket MP40 power head Aquamedic dosing pump using B-ionic

11/19/2006, 05:46 PM	#25
orangekush4 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 367	I have used about every bulb out ther in 175w to 250w and my vote is for the hami 14k.I dont understand when peaple say thay dont get any good growth out of the hamis. Ushio 10k are good but to yellow XM are way to strong for some corals and i sell plant bulbs and they XM look like alot of the Plant MHs. Radiums are ok they dont last long Reeflux 10k are ok to pink on ec ballest and mag ballest reeflux 12k are good Ushio 65k are way to yellow but color up millis real good and some other sps 13k megacrome my buddy uses and it is just like the 14k hamis i have done some par reading on them xm 20k are good but dont last long I have alot more other bulbs that i have used that arnt worth lesting.