don't skip this sump page

stdreb27 · 11/13/2006, 12:36 AM

hey what do you think about this two tank sump idea that I have? the main tank is a 180 FOWLR and the top tank is a 45 gallon breeder. the bottom is a twenty gallon. I am trying to get 1200+ gph waterflow. Maybe more.

Keiths_Reefs · 11/13/2006, 08:29 AM

You might get more responses in the future if you post an image in the thread rather than a file people need to download. Here's it is to help you out. And welcome to Reef Central!

stdreb27 · 11/13/2006, 09:24 AM

thanks

Wryknow · 11/13/2006, 09:39 AM

So what is the purpose of your fuge? If you are planning to keep macro-algae then I think you have too much flow. You may also have micro-bubble issues but that's going to depend on a lot of things. I am an advocate of low-flow through the return and in-tank powerheads or a closed loop system.

RudyCDX1 · 11/13/2006, 09:46 AM

I have been using this type design for some time. I come from my display tank, Oceaning 156Gal with dual mega overflows to a 40gal pre-filter sump that has my skimmer in it. I then overflow into a 100gal rubbermaid tank that has my DSB. From there I feed a 20gal fuge and my return pump, Barracuda. What I like is that gravity does alot of the work for me. The only pumps i have are the return, CA reactor and skimmer.

I also use all bulkhead penetrations for overflow retruns to the pre-filter sump. There are 4 in all. The return pump goes over the side of the tank.

thatguy · 11/13/2006, 09:48 AM

Are you trying to get 1200gph trough the sump?
It's my understanding that it's better too keep the flow in the sump about 5x. You shouldn't use the return from your sump to create flow in your main tank.

All that aside, I see possible causes of flooding:

-The 20 gallon has to be able to hold the extra from the 180 in case of power or pump failure. That is going to be a tough to achieve. If you could switch the 45 and the 20 you would be much better off.

-Depending on what your overflows GPH is you have to watch how much you pump from the lower tank. Which ever of your overflows is the slowest will be the limiting factor.

-Not a flooding issue but that much surface area will increase your evaporation.

Keiths_Reefs · 11/13/2006, 01:50 PM

I agree that 1200gph would be a ton of flow for a refugium. You would be better off to T off some of the return pumps flow and divert it to the fuge. Also, as has been mentioned, the 20 gallon sump may not people able to hold all of the extra from a 180 in the case of a power outage (unless you run it with a low water line).

stdreb27 · 11/13/2006, 05:45 PM

YEah t-ing off that was definately a thought? do yall have anysuggestions about it not flooding while loosing power?

archer8681 · 11/13/2006, 06:54 PM

Take a look at this sump/fuge. Sorta like you are planning.

http://www.melevsreef.com/acrylics/s...p_model_d.html

stdreb27 · 11/14/2006, 11:05 AM

why is a ton of flow in the fuge a bad thing?

stdreb27 · 11/15/2006, 12:19 AM

looking at that post from melevs reef. I have two options as far as that 4 gallon tank goes. I could either use the hole on the bottom or one that is almost at the top for an overflow. what do you guys think.

Keiths_Reefs · 11/15/2006, 09:01 AM

Provided you used a standpipe in the bottom hole the effect would be very similar. I'd go off of whichever is easier to plumb for you. All else equal I'd use the bottom hole with a standpipe.

stdreb27 · 11/18/2006, 08:38 PM

bump, would you get rid of a canister system and go with just power heads?

stereomandan · 11/19/2006, 12:22 AM

Why are you against using a single larger sump, and dividing it into sections? Are you space confined? I see no reason to do what you are doing unless you don't have any room for a single big sump.

1200 gph through a sump is pointless. Your skimmer isn't going to skim any better than a much lower sump turnover rate. Plus, it's hard to quiet down that much flow, and there is a good chance that you will not be able to get rid of the microbubbles from the flow moving through the sump so fast.

If it were me, I would go somewhere around 600-900 gph through the sump, and get the rest of your flow from a closed loop.

Dan

stdreb27 · 11/19/2006, 09:37 PM

Why are you against using a single larger sump, and dividing it into sections? Are you space confined? I see no reason to do what you are doing unless you don't have any room for a single big sump.

1200 gph through a sump is pointless. Your skimmer isn't going to skim any better than a much lower sump turnover rate. Plus, it's hard to quiet down that much flow, and there is a good chance that you will not be able to get rid of the microbubbles from the flow moving through the sump so fast.

If it were me, I would go somewhere around 600-900 gph through the sump, and get the rest of your flow from a closed loop.

Dan

__________________

Well the reason is space for one. I originally just planned to use the 45. But then started playing with some Ideas. And thought about this one. like figuring out that 1200 gph flow will just make it useless. (got to love the LSF) but I liked the idea of being able to use the whole top tank. I've thought about flip flopping tanks and putting the large one on the bottom. To avoid flooding, I guess i could just go get another 45 gallon I can get them for 45 bucks. so that may just be what I do. I haven't really bought anything yet. So nothing is final. thanks for the imput, keep it comming.

11/13/2006, 09:39 AM	#4
Wryknow Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 1,203	So what is the purpose of your fuge? If you are planning to keep macro-algae then I think you have too much flow. You may also have micro-bubble issues but that's going to depend on a lot of things. I am an advocate of low-flow through the return and in-tank powerheads or a closed loop system. __________________ You cannot use reason to change the opinion of a person that did not use reason to form their opinion in the first place. Current Tank Info: 65 G RR, w/ 50 G sump/refugium, DIY LED lighting, AquaMaxx CO-1 skimmer, Tunze 1073.050 return

11/13/2006, 09:46 AM	#5
RudyCDX1 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Oakton, VA Posts: 61	I have been using this type design for some time. I come from my display tank, Oceaning 156Gal with dual mega overflows to a 40gal pre-filter sump that has my skimmer in it. I then overflow into a 100gal rubbermaid tank that has my DSB. From there I feed a 20gal fuge and my return pump, Barracuda. What I like is that gravity does alot of the work for me. The only pumps i have are the return, CA reactor and skimmer. I also use all bulkhead penetrations for overflow retruns to the pre-filter sump. There are 4 in all. The return pump goes over the side of the tank. __________________ Rudy Current Tank Info: 156gal Reef, ASM-G4x Skimmer, Oceans Motions 4Way, Barracuda Pump, MRC Ca Reactor, Kangaroo Doser

11/13/2006, 09:48 AM	#6
thatguy Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: CO Posts: 513	Are you trying to get 1200gph trough the sump? It's my understanding that it's better too keep the flow in the sump about 5x. You shouldn't use the return from your sump to create flow in your main tank. All that aside, I see possible causes of flooding: -The 20 gallon has to be able to hold the extra from the 180 in case of power or pump failure. That is going to be a tough to achieve. If you could switch the 45 and the 20 you would be much better off. -Depending on what your overflows GPH is you have to watch how much you pump from the lower tank. Which ever of your overflows is the slowest will be the limiting factor. -Not a flooding issue but that much surface area will increase your evaporation. __________________ #something witty Current Tank Info: in my memories

11/13/2006, 06:54 PM	#9
archer8681 Premium Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: New York Posts: 236	Take a look at this sump/fuge. Sorta like you are planning. http://www.melevsreef.com/acrylics/s...p_model_d.html __________________ Dave Current Tank Info: AGA 90gal RR, 30 Gal sump/fuge, ASM G3 Skimmer, Eheim 1262, 2x Tunze 6060, Typhoon III RO/DI, Current Outer Orbit HQI/T5HO fixture - 2x 150x HQI, 2x 54w Actinic 460nm, 2x Actinic 420nm, 9/9 Blue/White Lunar LED Lights

11/19/2006, 12:22 AM	#14
stereomandan Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,888	Why are you against using a single larger sump, and dividing it into sections? Are you space confined? I see no reason to do what you are doing unless you don't have any room for a single big sump. 1200 gph through a sump is pointless. Your skimmer isn't going to skim any better than a much lower sump turnover rate. Plus, it's hard to quiet down that much flow, and there is a good chance that you will not be able to get rid of the microbubbles from the flow moving through the sump so fast. If it were me, I would go somewhere around 600-900 gph through the sump, and get the rest of your flow from a closed loop. Dan __________________ 90g Tank, 75 lbs Live Rock, T5, T8 and VHO Lighting, Closed loop on Snapper Pump 1.5" Sand in main tank, DSB in 38g Sump, B-ionic Daily, Temp 79, SG 1.026 LPS, Softies Current Tank Info: 90 Gallon Reef

11/13/2006, 08:29 AM	#2
Keiths_Reefs Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Winnebago, IL Posts: 396	You might get more responses in the future if you post an image in the thread rather than a file people need to download. Here's it is to help you out. And welcome to Reef Central!

11/13/2006, 09:24 AM	#3
stdreb27 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: the Anthill, Houston, tx Posts: 507	thanks

11/13/2006, 01:50 PM	#7
Keiths_Reefs Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Winnebago, IL Posts: 396	I agree that 1200gph would be a ton of flow for a refugium. You would be better off to T off some of the return pumps flow and divert it to the fuge. Also, as has been mentioned, the 20 gallon sump may not people able to hold all of the extra from a 180 in the case of a power outage (unless you run it with a low water line).

11/13/2006, 05:45 PM	#8
stdreb27 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: the Anthill, Houston, tx Posts: 507	YEah t-ing off that was definately a thought? do yall have anysuggestions about it not flooding while loosing power?

11/14/2006, 11:05 AM	#10
stdreb27 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: the Anthill, Houston, tx Posts: 507	why is a ton of flow in the fuge a bad thing?

11/15/2006, 12:19 AM	#11
stdreb27 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: the Anthill, Houston, tx Posts: 507	looking at that post from melevs reef. I have two options as far as that 4 gallon tank goes. I could either use the hole on the bottom or one that is almost at the top for an overflow. what do you guys think.

11/15/2006, 09:01 AM	#12
Keiths_Reefs Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Winnebago, IL Posts: 396	Provided you used a standpipe in the bottom hole the effect would be very similar. I'd go off of whichever is easier to plumb for you. All else equal I'd use the bottom hole with a standpipe.

11/18/2006, 08:38 PM	#13
stdreb27 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: the Anthill, Houston, tx Posts: 507	bump, would you get rid of a canister system and go with just power heads?

11/19/2006, 09:37 PM	#15
stdreb27 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: the Anthill, Houston, tx Posts: 507	Why are you against using a single larger sump, and dividing it into sections? Are you space confined? I see no reason to do what you are doing unless you don't have any room for a single big sump. 1200 gph through a sump is pointless. Your skimmer isn't going to skim any better than a much lower sump turnover rate. Plus, it's hard to quiet down that much flow, and there is a good chance that you will not be able to get rid of the microbubbles from the flow moving through the sump so fast. If it were me, I would go somewhere around 600-900 gph through the sump, and get the rest of your flow from a closed loop. Dan __________________ Well the reason is space for one. I originally just planned to use the 45. But then started playing with some Ideas. And thought about this one. like figuring out that 1200 gph flow will just make it useless. (got to love the LSF) but I liked the idea of being able to use the whole top tank. I've thought about flip flopping tanks and putting the large one on the bottom. To avoid flooding, I guess i could just go get another 45 gallon I can get them for 45 bucks. so that may just be what I do. I haven't really bought anything yet. So nothing is final. thanks for the imput, keep it comming.