kH or alkalinity dropping - now what?

woodstock '69 · 11/22/2006, 07:43 PM

My kH or alkalinity has dropped from 9.4 to 8.2 over the past 10 days. I know 8.2 is ok. But I wouldn't be surprised if it is around 7 next week.

I have Seachem Reef Builder (Raises Carbonate Alkalinity) , and Seachem Reef Advantage Calcium (Raises Calcium).

Should I start adding the Reef Builder? I was kinda hoping I wouldn't have to add anything....but....not so much?

Also my Calcium has gone from 440 to 475 over the same 10 days. Is there a tie between these?

Michael

sarduci · 11/22/2006, 08:09 PM

Have you been dosing anything over the past few days? If so, stop until you can figure out what is going on. It sounds like your tank is out of balance. There is a chart on here somewhere that is in Randy's forum on what to do if you have high/low alk/calcium. Can someone link to it?

woodstock '69 · 11/22/2006, 08:19 PM

sarduci - thanks. Tank has only been set up 6 weeks. I have not dosed anything at all yet. I did add my first fish about 5 days ago (midas blennie about 4" total length).

Michael

sarduci · 11/22/2006, 08:50 PM

Don't dose anything, do a big water change, like 50%. I'd also suggest taking a water sample into you LFS to make sure the numbers are correct.

I'm not familiar with midas blennies, but 6 weeks is a bit early in my opinion for fish, I'd wait about 12 weeks after you get you first one or two algae outbreaks under control without haveing to toss fish food in.

woodstock '69 · 11/22/2006, 09:42 PM

Well - its a little late to wait 12 weeks for a fish. And this guy as beautiful as h/she is, is not the hardiest of fish. So wish me luck that I don't croak her.

Michael

rtecanoe · 11/22/2006, 09:58 PM

You might want to look at the reef chemistry forum, under 'reef chemistry articles". Randy, the moderator, has a 2 part formula that you can make yourself. It is the same thing as the store bought 2 part formulas except it is real inexpensive! Once you get your tank going, and have a decent amount of corals and even just coraline algae, your going to need a ton of the two part formula to keep your Alk and Calcium up and stable. I learned this from experience! I underdosed for a long time before I realized how much of the 2 parts you need! You can learn a lot from reading the questions and answers in that forum.

cayars · 11/22/2006, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by woodstock '69
My kH or alkalinity has dropped from 9.4 to 8.2 over the past 10 days. I know 8.2 is ok. But I wouldn't be surprised if it is around 7 next week.

I have Seachem Reef Builder (Raises Carbonate Alkalinity) , and Seachem Reef Advantage Calcium (Raises Calcium).

Should I start adding the Reef Builder? I was kinda hoping I wouldn't have to add anything....but....not so much?

Also my Calcium has gone from 440 to 475 over the same 10 days. Is there a tie between these?

Michael

Yes there is a tie between those and also PH. What is your PH?

If it's less then say 8.2 you can dose the Reef Builder a little bit and check both the PH and alkalinity after a couple of hours. Part of the key in raising your alk is also watching PH and calc. Your calc is in good shape so I wouldn't add anything there until you get your alk back to around 10-12 dKh. When raising alk/PH do it in small amounts per day and don't let PH rise more then 0.20 per day.

woodstock '69 · 11/22/2006, 10:46 PM

My ph is about 8.2. I thought one of the cool things about Reef Builder was that I could raise kH without effecting ph?

I have a fw planted discus tank and I use baking soda to raise kH which also raises the ph. So I have to be careful. Especially because the discus probably prefer a ph around 6.5 - 7.

So the Reef Builder. Will it raise ph too?

Michael

Sk8r · 11/22/2006, 11:16 PM

If both readings drop and refuse to rise after dosing buffer and calcium, test your magnesium. Low magnesium [the third part of the triad] rarely comes into question, but it is the answer when the other two mysteriously misbehave.
I have a 52g, and run an 8.3 ph, dosing 2 tsp daily of Kent KH buffer [via the topoff water] to maintain an 8.3 dkh, and dose 2 tsp daily of Turbo calcium to feed my corals and clam. It's been pretty steady for the last 6 months of my 11 month old tank's existence.

PatMayo · 11/23/2006, 12:18 AM

I wouldn't use buffers. They will get your water out of whack. If you do not have corals in the tank yet you only need to do water changes. I would not add anything. You really will not need to supplement until you get corals or coralline algae starts to grow.

When you do start to need to add you should only have to add calcium, alkalinity and magnesium occasionally. YOu should use a balanced 2 part additive like C Balance or B-Ionic.

Or you can use Randy's 2 part formula which is what I use. It's much less expensive than the LFS stuff.

I would also get your own test kits, I recommend Salifert kits, and do your own testing.

Here are a couple of links that will help educate you.

Regards,

Pat

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2003/chem.htm

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php#6

woodstock '69 · 11/24/2006, 05:07 PM

[u[PatMayo[/u[ -

I have 2 Euphyllia - one branching hammer and one branching torch. I also have 1 fish - a midas blennie.

My lfs (he has the nicest tanks in town) says all I need is to add either Seachem Reef Builder to raise Alkalinity, or Seachem Reef Advantage Calcium to raise calcuim.

I have lots of coralline already. I thought it would take longer? I have Salifert ph, calcium, kh, phosphate, ammonia, nitrate, and nitrite tests. Everything looks good except like I said my kh is dropping.

I guess I need to add the reef builder.

11/22/2006, 07:43 PM	#1
woodstock '69 Premium Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: central virginia Posts: 368	kH or alkalinity dropping - now what? My kH or alkalinity has dropped from 9.4 to 8.2 over the past 10 days. I know 8.2 is ok. But I wouldn't be surprised if it is around 7 next week. I have Seachem Reef Builder (Raises Carbonate Alkalinity) , and Seachem Reef Advantage Calcium (Raises Calcium). Should I start adding the Reef Builder? I was kinda hoping I wouldn't have to add anything....but....not so much? Also my Calcium has gone from 440 to 475 over the same 10 days. Is there a tie between these? Michael

11/22/2006, 11:16 PM	#9
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	If both readings drop and refuse to rise after dosing buffer and calcium, test your magnesium. Low magnesium [the third part of the triad] rarely comes into question, but it is the answer when the other two mysteriously misbehave. I have a 52g, and run an 8.3 ph, dosing 2 tsp daily of Kent KH buffer [via the topoff water] to maintain an 8.3 dkh, and dose 2 tsp daily of Turbo calcium to feed my corals and clam. It's been pretty steady for the last 6 months of my 11 month old tank's existence. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

11/23/2006, 12:18 AM	#10
PatMayo Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 2,843	I wouldn't use buffers. They will get your water out of whack. If you do not have corals in the tank yet you only need to do water changes. I would not add anything. You really will not need to supplement until you get corals or coralline algae starts to grow. When you do start to need to add you should only have to add calcium, alkalinity and magnesium occasionally. YOu should use a balanced 2 part additive like C Balance or B-Ionic. Or you can use Randy's 2 part formula which is what I use. It's much less expensive than the LFS stuff. I would also get your own test kits, I recommend Salifert kits, and do your own testing. Here are a couple of links that will help educate you. Regards, Pat http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2003/chem.htm http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php#6 __________________ 90 AGA Megaflow (Setup 1-24-06) 120 Lbs. Liverock EuroReef RS 100 Skimmer 2 X 150 MH 2 X 96 watt PC Actinic 2 Clarki Clowns (31 months old) 1 Niger Trigger (Owned 6 months) 2 Tunze 6055 PH Current Tank Info: 90 AGA Megaflow To Be Mixed Reef

11/22/2006, 08:09 PM	#2
sarduci Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Wausau, Wisconsin Posts: 1,278	Have you been dosing anything over the past few days? If so, stop until you can figure out what is going on. It sounds like your tank is out of balance. There is a chart on here somewhere that is in Randy's forum on what to do if you have high/low alk/calcium. Can someone link to it?

11/22/2006, 08:19 PM	#3
woodstock '69 Premium Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: central virginia Posts: 368	sarduci - thanks. Tank has only been set up 6 weeks. I have not dosed anything at all yet. I did add my first fish about 5 days ago (midas blennie about 4" total length). Michael

11/22/2006, 08:50 PM	#4
sarduci Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Wausau, Wisconsin Posts: 1,278	Don't dose anything, do a big water change, like 50%. I'd also suggest taking a water sample into you LFS to make sure the numbers are correct. I'm not familiar with midas blennies, but 6 weeks is a bit early in my opinion for fish, I'd wait about 12 weeks after you get you first one or two algae outbreaks under control without haveing to toss fish food in.

11/22/2006, 09:42 PM	#5
woodstock '69 Premium Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: central virginia Posts: 368	Well - its a little late to wait 12 weeks for a fish. And this guy as beautiful as h/she is, is not the hardiest of fish. So wish me luck that I don't croak her. Michael

11/22/2006, 09:58 PM	#6
rtecanoe Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oakdale, Long Island Posts: 512	You might want to look at the reef chemistry forum, under 'reef chemistry articles". Randy, the moderator, has a 2 part formula that you can make yourself. It is the same thing as the store bought 2 part formulas except it is real inexpensive! Once you get your tank going, and have a decent amount of corals and even just coraline algae, your going to need a ton of the two part formula to keep your Alk and Calcium up and stable. I learned this from experience! I underdosed for a long time before I realized how much of the 2 parts you need! You can learn a lot from reading the questions and answers in that forum. __________________ Rick Current Tank Info: 180 gallon reef

11/22/2006, 10:46 PM	#8
woodstock '69 Premium Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: central virginia Posts: 368	My ph is about 8.2. I thought one of the cool things about Reef Builder was that I could raise kH without effecting ph? I have a fw planted discus tank and I use baking soda to raise kH which also raises the ph. So I have to be careful. Especially because the discus probably prefer a ph around 6.5 - 7. So the Reef Builder. Will it raise ph too? Michael

11/24/2006, 05:07 PM	#11
woodstock '69 Premium Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: central virginia Posts: 368	[u[PatMayo[/u[ - I have 2 Euphyllia - one branching hammer and one branching torch. I also have 1 fish - a midas blennie. My lfs (he has the nicest tanks in town) says all I need is to add either Seachem Reef Builder to raise Alkalinity, or Seachem Reef Advantage Calcium to raise calcuim. I have lots of coralline already. I thought it would take longer? I have Salifert ph, calcium, kh, phosphate, ammonia, nitrate, and nitrite tests. Everything looks good except like I said my kh is dropping. I guess I need to add the reef builder.