Tank starting to crash?

matasw · 12/05/2006, 11:55 PM

All of the sudden in the past week my tank has taken a turn for the worse. Nothing has really changed as far as I know, I added a few corals about two weeks ago. Started with the Xenia dying but i thought it was just xenia being xenia even though it had flourished for a while. Had about 8 xenia stalks and it has all died slowly over the last few days. Yesterday I noticed my Kenya tree wasn't opening like it usually does when the lights come on and some of the Zoa polyps were remaining closed. A small button polyp colony is almost completly whiped. About 10 days ago I noticed some cyano and green hair algae blooming again all of the sudden, seemingly out of no where. I went through the blooms of cyano and green months ago but it seemed to have completed cleared up except for this recent bloom. I tested everything I could tonight and got the following:

0 Ammonia
0 Nitrite
30 Nitrate
1.026
80 Degrees
400 Calcium
8 PH
190 KH

Only thing that seems different from last test are the nitrates which were at about 10-15 a month ago. I added some cheato about a month ago, but it doesn't seem to have made a difference, as you see the nitrates went up

.

Tests seemed fine, I have no idea what to do. So I yanked the sole remaining xenia stalk, kenya tree, and button polyp colony thinking it could be a parasite. I threw them in FW for about 5-7 min. Although im' not sure that the dip would really help if it was a parasite.

Any ideas, suggestions? Everything else except a few zoa polyps, button polyps, xenia, and kenya tree seems to be doing fine.

bertoni · 12/06/2006, 12:11 AM

You might want to look for signs of a predator eating your corals. There are both slug-like animals and snails that might be doing this. The FW dip might have helped. Looking at night is often useful.

IPowderBlueTang · 12/06/2006, 01:15 AM

Just curious how long is your 20 gal reef been up and running!

sidneybrooksjr · 12/06/2006, 05:44 AM

sounds like your nitrates are too high for corals, but i could be wrong.

Snowreefer · 12/06/2006, 05:51 AM

yeah get your nitrates down and what type of water are you using?

matasw · 12/06/2006, 07:34 AM

been up about 6 Months. I'm using RODI, the nitatrates were at this level befor and didn't seem to kill anything. What should I look for at night just wierd critters? Any suggestions on how to see better at night?

Paintbug · 12/06/2006, 07:34 AM

my nitrates have been at 50ppm+ before. could be the reason some of the corals are not acting right. you might want to run some carbon. do some water changes as well.

matasw · 12/06/2006, 07:40 AM

Oh, when moving some things around the other day I saw some things that looked very similar to these:

http://www.melevsreef.com/id/tbs/cir..._isopod_tb.jpg

matasw · 12/06/2006, 08:49 AM

Nitrates have been a problem for a while now. I Stuffed a bunch of cheato in the back didn't seem to make much of a difference.

bertoni · 12/06/2006, 02:39 PM

That level of nitrate won't harm soft corals, in my experience. I've kept tanks at higher levels than that for years with no problems. The chemistry forum has an article on nitrate with more details.

I would guess there's a predator or perhaps allelopathy, but I'm only guessing.

matasw · 12/07/2006, 12:36 AM

What is allelopathy?

dcombs44 · 12/07/2006, 02:16 PM

Allelopathy is a chemical process that a plant (i'm assuming the same for corals) uses to keep other plants from growing too close to it.

AKA some type of coral chemical warfare. Your colonies are trying to protect their space.

matasw · 12/07/2006, 03:49 PM

do xenia and kenya tree do that? they aren't really near anything else except some GSP which are doing great.

fishox · 12/07/2006, 06:28 PM

I've had soft corals thrive in higher nitrate. I would look for a predator as mentioned elsewhere. Soft corals and zoo's, in my experience, are more tolerant of nitrates.

What kind of test kits are you using? With the die off is it possible you have some ammonia or nitrite that your kits aren't reading? Just a thought.

Bertoni had an excellent point as well. Were any of the dead corals touching each other, or situated very close together?

bertoni · 12/07/2006, 11:39 PM

Most soft corals produce some toxins for chemical warfare. Maybe the GSPs are the issue. Hard to say. If it's allelopathy, carbon and water changes should help.

tkeracer619 · 12/08/2006, 12:04 AM

Carbon and water changes is what I would recommend.

When adding new corals make sure to QT or dip as a minimum. Reducing the chance of a parasite on 100 items is often a lot easier than removing one bad hitchhiker.

12/05/2006, 11:55 PM	#1
matasw Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 292	Tank starting to crash? All of the sudden in the past week my tank has taken a turn for the worse. Nothing has really changed as far as I know, I added a few corals about two weeks ago. Started with the Xenia dying but i thought it was just xenia being xenia even though it had flourished for a while. Had about 8 xenia stalks and it has all died slowly over the last few days. Yesterday I noticed my Kenya tree wasn't opening like it usually does when the lights come on and some of the Zoa polyps were remaining closed. A small button polyp colony is almost completly whiped. About 10 days ago I noticed some cyano and green hair algae blooming again all of the sudden, seemingly out of no where. I went through the blooms of cyano and green months ago but it seemed to have completed cleared up except for this recent bloom. I tested everything I could tonight and got the following: 0 Ammonia 0 Nitrite 30 Nitrate 1.026 80 Degrees 400 Calcium 8 PH 190 KH Only thing that seems different from last test are the nitrates which were at about 10-15 a month ago. I added some cheato about a month ago, but it doesn't seem to have made a difference, as you see the nitrates went up . Tests seemed fine, I have no idea what to do. So I yanked the sole remaining xenia stalk, kenya tree, and button polyp colony thinking it could be a parasite. I threw them in FW for about 5-7 min. Although im' not sure that the dip would really help if it was a parasite. Any ideas, suggestions? Everything else except a few zoa polyps, button polyps, xenia, and kenya tree seems to be doing fine.

12/06/2006, 12:11 AM	#2
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	You might want to look for signs of a predator eating your corals. There are both slug-like animals and snails that might be doing this. The FW dip might have helped. Looking at night is often useful. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

12/06/2006, 05:44 AM	#4
sidneybrooksjr Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 140	sounds like your nitrates are too high for corals, but i could be wrong. __________________ eazz Current Tank Info: w/ 75 gallon, LTA, BTA and maroon clown, lemon peel,fiji damsel

12/06/2006, 05:51 AM	#5
Snowreefer Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Nutley, New Jersey Posts: 89	yeah get your nitrates down and what type of water are you using? __________________ [url]http://www.americanminutemen.org/index.htm[/url] Current Tank Info: 29 gallon reef tank, 20 gallonReef tank, 25 gallon Prop system

12/06/2006, 07:34 AM	#7
Paintbug Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Stoneville, NC Posts: 6,169	my nitrates have been at 50ppm+ before. could be the reason some of the corals are not acting right. you might want to run some carbon. do some water changes as well. __________________ Never ask a girl over to see your crabs!! <-Tony-> Current Tank Info: NONE currently

12/06/2006, 01:15 AM	#3
IPowderBlueTang Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Kalamazoo, Canada Posts: 769	Just curious how long is your 20 gal reef been up and running!

12/06/2006, 07:40 AM	#8
matasw Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 292	Oh, when moving some things around the other day I saw some things that looked very similar to these: http://www.melevsreef.com/id/tbs/cir..._isopod_tb.jpg

12/06/2006, 08:49 AM	#9
matasw Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 292	Nitrates have been a problem for a while now. I Stuffed a bunch of cheato in the back didn't seem to make much of a difference.

12/06/2006, 02:39 PM	#10
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	That level of nitrate won't harm soft corals, in my experience. I've kept tanks at higher levels than that for years with no problems. The chemistry forum has an article on nitrate with more details. I would guess there's a predator or perhaps allelopathy, but I'm only guessing. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

12/07/2006, 12:36 AM	#11
matasw Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 292	What is allelopathy?

12/07/2006, 02:16 PM	#12
dcombs44 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 2,913	Allelopathy is a chemical process that a plant (i'm assuming the same for corals) uses to keep other plants from growing too close to it. AKA some type of coral chemical warfare. Your colonies are trying to protect their space. __________________ Current Setup: 10 Gallon Skimmerless Zoanthid Tank Lighting: Single 175 Watt Metal Halide (14,000 K Hamilton Lamp) Filtration: 10 gallon sump/refugium and Phosban Reactor Return: Mag Drive 700 Controller: ReefKeeper Lite (Basic Version) Circulation: TBD Age of System: Build is in Progress

12/07/2006, 03:49 PM	#13
matasw Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 292	do xenia and kenya tree do that? they aren't really near anything else except some GSP which are doing great.

12/07/2006, 06:28 PM	#14
fishox Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Pittsburgh PA Posts: 453	I've had soft corals thrive in higher nitrate. I would look for a predator as mentioned elsewhere. Soft corals and zoo's, in my experience, are more tolerant of nitrates. What kind of test kits are you using? With the die off is it possible you have some ammonia or nitrite that your kits aren't reading? Just a thought. Bertoni had an excellent point as well. Were any of the dead corals touching each other, or situated very close together?

12/07/2006, 11:39 PM	#15
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	Most soft corals produce some toxins for chemical warfare. Maybe the GSPs are the issue. Hard to say. If it's allelopathy, carbon and water changes should help. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

12/08/2006, 12:04 AM	#16
tkeracer619 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Westminster, CO Posts: 17,289	Carbon and water changes is what I would recommend. When adding new corals make sure to QT or dip as a minimum. Reducing the chance of a parasite on 100 items is often a lot easier than removing one bad hitchhiker. __________________ Hobby Experience: 9200ish gallons, 26 skimmers, and a handful of Kent Scrapers. Current Tank: Vortech Powered 600G SPS Tank w/ 100gal frag tank & 100g Sump. RK2-RK10 Skimmer. ReefAngel. Radium 20k.