Freon and chillers...

reefgeek84 · 01/03/2007, 12:53 AM

So I am wondering what the trend in Freon is...I have heard that it it going to be not used in the future. If that is the case, then I am thinking I should avoid purchasing a chiller that uses Freon.

Can someone else shed some light on this whole freon subject.

Thanks.

bzzi · 01/03/2007, 01:26 AM

Hello,
Freon is what old refrigerators and air conditioners used as a coolant. But when released, it went up to the higher layers of the atmosphere and punched holes in the Ozone Layer. Yep, that's Freon's fault. Well, along with other stuff, but freon really binds with the Ozone, breaking it up. If you can get any other type of cooler, please go for it.

reefgeek84 · 01/03/2007, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bzzi
Hello,
Freon is what old refrigerators and air conditioners used as a coolant. But when released, it went up to the higher layers of the atmosphere and punched holes in the Ozone Layer. Yep, that's Freon's fault. Well, along with other stuff, but freon really binds with the Ozone, breaking it up. If you can get any other type of cooler, please go for it.

I understand this...that was not my questions. I however appreciate your input and time...

But I want to know if it is going to be a waste to get a chiller that uses it?

SpektralerSpeer · 01/03/2007, 05:17 AM

Hello,

I think you'll find that bzzi's answer was the answer to your question, due to the damage that this substance does to our planet, it has been mostly phased out and should not be used in any case - particularly as there are more environmentally-friendly, readily available alternatives. As consciencious aquarists we should always strive to make our hobby as environmentally-sustainable as possible.

Thanks,

Paul

rickyfins · 01/03/2007, 05:27 AM

Yes, and regardless of what a good deal you may be getting on a Freon Filled Chiller, in the long run you will just be "Punching HOLES" in our atmosphere. HEHEHEHEHEHE

I do know that even though they use freon, they can be converted to the new R-134a but it is EXTREMELY expensive to dispose of the old Freon or R-12.

thanks,

Rick

P.S. Please don't take offense, its all in good fun.

marinelife · 01/03/2007, 07:28 AM

mine runs on R0134a already, Check around you will find freon free ones

Watch Yo Wrasse · 01/03/2007, 07:41 AM

Yes, and while you're out there searching for a freon free chiller, make sure you leave your BIG GAS GUZZLING SUV at home, and ride a bike. Better yet, don't even ride your bike, because you know sometimes the rubber they use to make tires essentially comes from trees. I am going to go and hug one right now.

rreddick · 01/03/2007, 09:04 AM

I did not know you could even get an item with freon anymore, it was banned in the USA in the 80's. As to the rubber on the bike, hug a tree, but 80% off all rubber is synthetic, comes from crude oil, as does fertilizers, pharmacuticals, plastics, nylon, acrylic, and many other products we use today. So as you said, get out of the SUV, off the bike, put on your wooden clogs and go find a freon free chiller.

Ron

maxima k2 · 01/03/2007, 09:43 AM

Freon, I believe was not banned till 95 I believe, this was due to the ozone problem. So there was a bright idea to use other refrigerants. Cars went from R-12 to 134A and most homes still use R-22, but there has been some change to Puron, and 410 refrigerants. Most chillers I have seen use 134A, I wish they used R- 12 it cools much quicker than 134a. Most refrigerants are harmful to the enviroment, the phased out refrigerants were ozone depleters and the new ones are greenhouse gasses. There are alot of other things that can be used for refrigerant, propane, ammonia are the ones I can think of right now. Just imagine a leak with one of those. IMO just find a newer chiller and you will be using 134A.

rreddick · 01/03/2007, 09:46 AM

Maxima, your right in the time frame

"The Freon-dependent world was thrust into a dilemma in 1996 when production of the world's most commonly used refrigerant was banned in developed countries for its link to stratospheric ozone depletion. The immediate answer to the international refrigeration dilemma was to replace ozone-depleting chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) with HFC-134a -- a greenhouse gas."

It seemed so much longer ago - where has the time gone?

Ron

reefgeek84 · 01/03/2007, 10:30 AM

I guess what is throwing me off... is that on custom aquatic's website, they only have one chiller, that says it runs on the R0134a, all the rest do not specify...In most cases when companies only list a couple things that are different, it does not hold true for the rest of the same type of thing they are selling.

reefgeek84 · 01/03/2007, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Watch Yo Wrasse
Yes, and while you're out there searching for a freon free chiller, make sure you leave your BIG GAS GUZZLING SUV at home, and ride a bike. Better yet, don't even ride your bike, because you know sometimes the rubber they use to make tires essentially comes from trees. I am going to go and hug one right now.

Thanks...along the same lines as I was thinking...

reefgeek84 · 01/03/2007, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SpektralerSpeer
Hello,

I think you'll find that bzzi's answer was the answer to your question, due to the damage that this substance does to our planet, it has been mostly phased out and should not be used in any case - particularly as there are more environmentally-friendly, readily available alternatives. As consciencious aquarists we should always strive to make our hobby as environmentally-sustainable as possible.

Thanks,

Paul

Actually it did not...I never asked if it was harmful to the ozone...I know it is. but so are cars, and they are still allowed to take billions of people where they need to go (i understand there is a big difference, but just showing, that I wanted nothing to do with it...so I digress).

No where in the entire post was anything mentioned about being phased out or how readily available it was...that is all I wanted, not someone preaching to me about the atmosphere...I know what it can do...now the other people who included information about freon were helpful, and that is what I was looking for.

rreddick · 01/03/2007, 10:52 AM

That being said,
I would not think you could find a new chiller that is using freon. And my understanding is that you can only buy it if you are a specialy licensed HVAC person with the correct capture equipment, etc. So i would think recharging or servicing one using freon would be expensive if not impossible.

Ron

raptor597 · 01/03/2007, 06:15 PM

Im in the heating and air conditioning trade. I know Freon is not being phased out at all. Certain ones are but are being replaced by a more enviromentally friendly ones. The older ones like r-12 they dont even make so if its a brand new chiller it will be 134a.Which is the replacement for R12.You can buy 134a at walmart you dont have to be licensed. So if you buy a chiller buy one with 134a and youll be alright.

coryjac0b · 01/03/2007, 06:20 PM

Actually, R-22 which is used in most household units is being phased out, no more production of compressors that use it after 2010, and no more production of it in 2020. It's Being replaced with r-410a, which will be about 3-4 times the price as r-22 is. price meaning a 30 lb. drum.

demos10 · 01/03/2007, 06:31 PM

buy a new chiller it will have 134a in it as a refrigerant."Freon" is a brand name from dupont. All chillers use refrigerant of some kind. A new one will have 134a in it and is readily available and easily purchased.

reefgeek84 · 01/03/2007, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by demos10
buy a new chiller it will have 134a in it as a refrigerant."Freon" is a brand name from dupont. All chillers use refrigerant of some kind. A new one will have 134a in it and is readily available and easily purchased.

Thank you...that is what I was looking for...

Thank you to everyone who had something helpful to say...

01/03/2007, 12:53 AM	#1
reefgeek84 Moved On Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Portlan, OR Posts: 997	Freon and chillers... So I am wondering what the trend in Freon is...I have heard that it it going to be not used in the future. If that is the case, then I am thinking I should avoid purchasing a chiller that uses Freon. Can someone else shed some light on this whole freon subject. Thanks.

01/03/2007, 01:26 AM	#2
bzzi Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Venice Beach, California Posts: 2	Freon is bad, if released in the atmosphere Hello, Freon is what old refrigerators and air conditioners used as a coolant. But when released, it went up to the higher layers of the atmosphere and punched holes in the Ozone Layer. Yep, that's Freon's fault. Well, along with other stuff, but freon really binds with the Ozone, breaking it up. If you can get any other type of cooler, please go for it.

01/03/2007, 05:17 AM	#4
SpektralerSpeer Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Munich, Germany Posts: 178	Hello, I think you'll find that bzzi's answer was the answer to your question, due to the damage that this substance does to our planet, it has been mostly phased out and should not be used in any case - particularly as there are more environmentally-friendly, readily available alternatives. As consciencious aquarists we should always strive to make our hobby as environmentally-sustainable as possible. Thanks, Paul __________________ Tomorrow Shine Current Tank Info: 1,300 l (340 g) reef: lighting 4 × 400 W metal halide; 8 × 56 W T5; flow 20,000 l/h + Tunze Wavebox; temp. 26 deg. C; den. 1.0240; pH 8.15; alk. 10 dKH; Ca 410 mg/l; Mg 1,300 mg/l

01/03/2007, 05:27 AM	#5
rickyfins Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Smithmill,PA Posts: 1,439	Yes, and regardless of what a good deal you may be getting on a Freon Filled Chiller, in the long run you will just be "Punching HOLES" in our atmosphere. HEHEHEHEHEHE I do know that even though they use freon, they can be converted to the new R-134a but it is EXTREMELY expensive to dispose of the old Freon or R-12. thanks, Rick P.S. Please don't take offense, its all in good fun. __________________ Thanks, Rick Absorbing information through OSMOSIS Yea, I can grow that. Have some water? It's just SCIENCE!! Offical NCPARS "Nazi Thread Ender" Current Tank Info: None at the moment.

01/03/2007, 07:28 AM	#6
marinelife Registered Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Union, Ohio, USA Posts: 6,590	mine runs on R0134a already, Check around you will find freon free ones __________________ I'm a SaltGeek are You? All LED since 2010. Current Tank Info: 375 Gallon Reef with siporax, all LED lighting, and Red Dragon 3 and Abyzz A200 on 2 closed loops.

01/03/2007, 07:41 AM	#7
Watch Yo Wrasse Moved On Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: NYC Posts: 68	Yes, and while you're out there searching for a freon free chiller, make sure you leave your BIG GAS GUZZLING SUV at home, and ride a bike. Better yet, don't even ride your bike, because you know sometimes the rubber they use to make tires essentially comes from trees. I am going to go and hug one right now.

01/03/2007, 09:04 AM	#8
rreddick Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Brewster, MA Posts: 224	I did not know you could even get an item with freon anymore, it was banned in the USA in the 80's. As to the rubber on the bike, hug a tree, but 80% off all rubber is synthetic, comes from crude oil, as does fertilizers, pharmacuticals, plastics, nylon, acrylic, and many other products we use today. So as you said, get out of the SUV, off the bike, put on your wooden clogs and go find a freon free chiller. Ron

01/03/2007, 09:43 AM	#9
maxima k2 Registered Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Joliet, IL Posts: 600	Freon, I believe was not banned till 95 I believe, this was due to the ozone problem. So there was a bright idea to use other refrigerants. Cars went from R-12 to 134A and most homes still use R-22, but there has been some change to Puron, and 410 refrigerants. Most chillers I have seen use 134A, I wish they used R- 12 it cools much quicker than 134a. Most refrigerants are harmful to the enviroment, the phased out refrigerants were ozone depleters and the new ones are greenhouse gasses. There are alot of other things that can be used for refrigerant, propane, ammonia are the ones I can think of right now. Just imagine a leak with one of those. IMO just find a newer chiller and you will be using 134A.

01/03/2007, 09:46 AM	#10
rreddick Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Brewster, MA Posts: 224	Maxima, your right in the time frame "The Freon-dependent world was thrust into a dilemma in 1996 when production of the world's most commonly used refrigerant was banned in developed countries for its link to stratospheric ozone depletion. The immediate answer to the international refrigeration dilemma was to replace ozone-depleting chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) with HFC-134a -- a greenhouse gas." It seemed so much longer ago - where has the time gone? Ron

01/03/2007, 10:30 AM	#11
reefgeek84 Moved On Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Portlan, OR Posts: 997	I guess what is throwing me off... is that on custom aquatic's website, they only have one chiller, that says it runs on the R0134a, all the rest do not specify...In most cases when companies only list a couple things that are different, it does not hold true for the rest of the same type of thing they are selling.

01/03/2007, 10:52 AM	#14
rreddick Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Brewster, MA Posts: 224	That being said, I would not think you could find a new chiller that is using freon. And my understanding is that you can only buy it if you are a specialy licensed HVAC person with the correct capture equipment, etc. So i would think recharging or servicing one using freon would be expensive if not impossible. Ron

01/03/2007, 06:15 PM	#15
raptor597 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 16	Im in the heating and air conditioning trade. I know Freon is not being phased out at all. Certain ones are but are being replaced by a more enviromentally friendly ones. The older ones like r-12 they dont even make so if its a brand new chiller it will be 134a.Which is the replacement for R12.You can buy 134a at walmart you dont have to be licensed. So if you buy a chiller buy one with 134a and youll be alright.

01/03/2007, 06:20 PM	#16
coryjac0b Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Metairie, LA Posts: 823	Actually, R-22 which is used in most household units is being phased out, no more production of compressors that use it after 2010, and no more production of it in 2020. It's Being replaced with r-410a, which will be about 3-4 times the price as r-22 is. price meaning a 30 lb. drum.

01/03/2007, 06:31 PM	#17
demos10 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: goodlettsville, Tn Posts: 125	buy a new chiller it will have 134a in it as a refrigerant."Freon" is a brand name from dupont. All chillers use refrigerant of some kind. A new one will have 134a in it and is readily available and easily purchased.