PO4 @ 1.0 ... Help please!

goldfishbowl · 01/12/2007, 01:12 PM

Hi guys,

My tank has been set up for 10 months now. Details of my tank can be found below in my sig.

I am fighting a constant battle with algae and high Nitrates - tried everything I can. From daily emergency changes, limited minimal feeding (details of current feeding below) and much more, but can't seem to get it down. Furthermore, and probably half the reason why I am having so many probs with algae is that my PO4 level is at a staggering 1.0

I have tested the water at the following:

Tank - the water in the tank was tested using a Red Sea testing kit
Tap - water straight from the tap
RO - water directly from tap through my RO filters
Storage - water that is stored, heated, airated and salt added ready to use.

All the above showed a problem with PO4. All at 1.0

So if I am adding this water to the tank, how on earth do I get rid of it. Details of what my tank has is below along with other readings.

My readings are as follows:

Phos: 1.0
Nitrate: 40
Nitrite: 0.1
PH: 8.0
Alk: OK - within safe zone on card
Amonia: 0.10 - usually zero
Calc: Couldn't measure this? Followed the guide on Red Seas Reef/Marine Lab and fluid kept turning red. Never used to do this.
Salinity: 1.023

Feeding is 3 times a week. 3 large pinches of flake, half sheet of seaweed, ice cubes worth of combined brine/artemis shrimp; a concuction I created. It's defrosted and poured into the tank. All pumps are turned off for 10 mins.

once a week I do a 20% water change with RO water, which has been in another tank, pumped and airated for a week.

The tanks is 240 ltrs aprox. has around 30kg of live rock and 10kg of live sand. Various fish, critters and SPS, soft corals, star fish. Feed by a weir into a Tunze compact 16 sump system; consisting of a skimmer (which is fed Ozone - redox monitor attached), filter unit, nitrate filter (biohydro reactor). This is pumped into a series of finer filters, that have charcaol inbedded in one of them and a further bag of charcoal at the bottom, the water is then pumped through a UV filter and feed back into the tank. Water movement is around 1200ltr ph. The tank is kept cool by a chiller. Lighting is 2 x 150w (14,000 kelvin) Metal Halide lamps & 4 x 55watt Actinic blue tubes. The water is kept topped up by an Osmilator, which has a calcium reactor in it.

I am getting more and more concerned about these level. I have tried everything to reduce them - it's been a while since I've used the kit or tested the tank. Should I use another testing kit?

Please let me know how to get PO4 down, way down. Considering the test kit states its in my water - I need to remove it when it's in the tank.

Cheers

Stu

kfowler · 01/12/2007, 01:16 PM

Have you changed your filters in your RO? Can you get a TDS reading even after being filtered? Are any of your bulbs old?

Randall_James · 01/12/2007, 01:25 PM

I think your frozen mix is an issue... I have seen a number of large tanks where guys make this blender mush and feed it too the tank. I think that the liquid as well as the small particles (that cause the milky look) are a disaster waiting to happen.

I know that the tank likes this stuff but the waste amounts IMO are excessive from what I have seen in person. I would thaw and rinse this stuff thoroughly before ever dumping it in the tank.

I have seen 2 other users post here with home brew feeds that have had disastrous tank crashes with excessive PO4 and I am pretty sure the home brew is a big contributor.

Seaweed sheets are also notorious for being high in phosphates and so you may want to look at that as well.

Am sure there will be a bit of debate on the home brew so take my opinion with a grain of salt

bertoni · 01/12/2007, 01:34 PM

If water from the tap and RO both read 1 ppm, then I suspect that the test kit is wrong or the RO isn't working. Do you have a TDS meter?

The Red Sea test kits are questionable, in my experience, as I mentioned in your post in the chemistry forum.

goldfishbowl · 01/12/2007, 01:37 PM

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the replies.

The RO filters are only around 8 months old. Will get a TDS on them tomorrow. The lighting is all new - recently added in Dec.

As for the feed - I have had my doubts, that this is causing Nitrate issues. Perhaps I should strain and rinse the feed. I also use high quality flake too, but they always eat all this.

Not sure what to do regards putting water in though, as the PO4 is high in the water I put in. Or, should the RO unit remove the PO4 too?

Any help appreciated.

Stu

goldfishbowl · 01/12/2007, 02:26 PM

OK, have looked at the TDS

The water from the RO unit is at 0.24
The water in my storage container is at 16.65
The water in my aquarium is at 16.89

Are these figures ok?

Any ideas on how I can reduce Nitrate and PO4 welcome.

Cheers

Stu

Randall_James · 01/12/2007, 03:27 PM

Here is some grand reading about PO4 and PO3 levels
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...t2002/chem.htm

bertoni · 01/12/2007, 07:04 PM

Those TDS numbers don't make any sense. What are the units?

You could add a DI cartridge to the RO system. That should remove any remaining phosphate.

goldfishbowl · 01/13/2007, 07:27 AM

The TDS unit states PPM - parts per million.

Cheers

Stu

bertoni · 01/13/2007, 01:51 PM

The measurements from the TDS meter don't make sense for the tank, which shouldn't even be measureable. What type of meter is being used?

goldfishbowl · 01/13/2007, 02:49 PM

Here's the unit I am using:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TDS-METER-MONI...QQcmdZViewItem

Hope this helps!

Stu

bertoni · 01/13/2007, 03:23 PM

I don't think the measurements you're posting make enough sense that we can help.

goldfishbowl · 01/13/2007, 06:40 PM

I don't understand? The readings on the meter I got on the above link are shown above. You can see how the display is formated in the pictures.

What format should TDS be in?

Stu

Randall_James · 01/13/2007, 06:44 PM

.24 is not a good measure, perhaps 24? and if that is the case, your RO unit is not doing very well. It should be somewhat lower than that. What is the "Before" reading (plain tap water)

bertoni · 01/13/2007, 06:44 PM

The unit shown doesn't seem to have a decimal point, and saltwater should run at tens of thousands of parts per million. The phosphate numbers also make no sense. They indicate no phosphate removed by the RO unit.

01/12/2007, 01:12 PM	#1
goldfishbowl Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: UK Posts: 61	PO4 @ 1.0 ... Help please! Hi guys, My tank has been set up for 10 months now. Details of my tank can be found below in my sig. I am fighting a constant battle with algae and high Nitrates - tried everything I can. From daily emergency changes, limited minimal feeding (details of current feeding below) and much more, but can't seem to get it down. Furthermore, and probably half the reason why I am having so many probs with algae is that my PO4 level is at a staggering 1.0 I have tested the water at the following: Tank - the water in the tank was tested using a Red Sea testing kit Tap - water straight from the tap RO - water directly from tap through my RO filters Storage - water that is stored, heated, airated and salt added ready to use. All the above showed a problem with PO4. All at 1.0 So if I am adding this water to the tank, how on earth do I get rid of it. Details of what my tank has is below along with other readings. My readings are as follows: Phos: 1.0 Nitrate: 40 Nitrite: 0.1 PH: 8.0 Alk: OK - within safe zone on card Amonia: 0.10 - usually zero Calc: Couldn't measure this? Followed the guide on Red Seas Reef/Marine Lab and fluid kept turning red. Never used to do this. Salinity: 1.023 Feeding is 3 times a week. 3 large pinches of flake, half sheet of seaweed, ice cubes worth of combined brine/artemis shrimp; a concuction I created. It's defrosted and poured into the tank. All pumps are turned off for 10 mins. once a week I do a 20% water change with RO water, which has been in another tank, pumped and airated for a week. The tanks is 240 ltrs aprox. has around 30kg of live rock and 10kg of live sand. Various fish, critters and SPS, soft corals, star fish. Feed by a weir into a Tunze compact 16 sump system; consisting of a skimmer (which is fed Ozone - redox monitor attached), filter unit, nitrate filter (biohydro reactor). This is pumped into a series of finer filters, that have charcaol inbedded in one of them and a further bag of charcoal at the bottom, the water is then pumped through a UV filter and feed back into the tank. Water movement is around 1200ltr ph. The tank is kept cool by a chiller. Lighting is 2 x 150w (14,000 kelvin) Metal Halide lamps & 4 x 55watt Actinic blue tubes. The water is kept topped up by an Osmilator, which has a calcium reactor in it. I am getting more and more concerned about these level. I have tried everything to reduce them - it's been a while since I've used the kit or tested the tank. Should I use another testing kit? Please let me know how to get PO4 down, way down. Considering the test kit states its in my water - I need to remove it when it's in the tank. Cheers Stu __________________ 70 Gal Reef Tank 40kg live rock Live Sand Tunze Sump, Skimmer, filters unit UV Filter Wave Maker x 3 powerheads Ozone and Redox monitor Osmilator (top up unit) T5 x 4 actinic 2 x 150w Halides -- Assorted marine fish, softcorals and polyps. Current Tank Info: 70 gal reef

01/12/2007, 01:16 PM	#2
kfowler Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,095	Have you changed your filters in your RO? Can you get a TDS reading even after being filtered? Are any of your bulbs old? __________________ Kevin "You cannot achieve what you are not willing to pursue." Current Tank Info: 20g Mixed Reef

01/12/2007, 01:25 PM	#3
Randall_James Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6,727	I think your frozen mix is an issue... I have seen a number of large tanks where guys make this blender mush and feed it too the tank. I think that the liquid as well as the small particles (that cause the milky look) are a disaster waiting to happen. I know that the tank likes this stuff but the waste amounts IMO are excessive from what I have seen in person. I would thaw and rinse this stuff thoroughly before ever dumping it in the tank. I have seen 2 other users post here with home brew feeds that have had disastrous tank crashes with excessive PO4 and I am pretty sure the home brew is a big contributor. Seaweed sheets are also notorious for being high in phosphates and so you may want to look at that as well. Am sure there will be a bit of debate on the home brew so take my opinion with a grain of salt __________________ "It's a dog eat dog world and I feel like I am wearing milkbone underwear"

01/12/2007, 01:34 PM	#4
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	If water from the tap and RO both read 1 ppm, then I suspect that the test kit is wrong or the RO isn't working. Do you have a TDS meter? The Red Sea test kits are questionable, in my experience, as I mentioned in your post in the chemistry forum. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

01/12/2007, 01:37 PM	#5
goldfishbowl Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: UK Posts: 61	Hi Guys, Thanks for the replies. The RO filters are only around 8 months old. Will get a TDS on them tomorrow. The lighting is all new - recently added in Dec. As for the feed - I have had my doubts, that this is causing Nitrate issues. Perhaps I should strain and rinse the feed. I also use high quality flake too, but they always eat all this. Not sure what to do regards putting water in though, as the PO4 is high in the water I put in. Or, should the RO unit remove the PO4 too? Any help appreciated. Stu __________________ 70 Gal Reef Tank 40kg live rock Live Sand Tunze Sump, Skimmer, filters unit UV Filter Wave Maker x 3 powerheads Ozone and Redox monitor Osmilator (top up unit) T5 x 4 actinic 2 x 150w Halides -- Assorted marine fish, softcorals and polyps. Current Tank Info: 70 gal reef

01/12/2007, 02:26 PM	#6
goldfishbowl Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: UK Posts: 61	OK, have looked at the TDS The water from the RO unit is at 0.24 The water in my storage container is at 16.65 The water in my aquarium is at 16.89 Are these figures ok? Any ideas on how I can reduce Nitrate and PO4 welcome. Cheers Stu __________________ 70 Gal Reef Tank 40kg live rock Live Sand Tunze Sump, Skimmer, filters unit UV Filter Wave Maker x 3 powerheads Ozone and Redox monitor Osmilator (top up unit) T5 x 4 actinic 2 x 150w Halides -- Assorted marine fish, softcorals and polyps. Current Tank Info: 70 gal reef

01/12/2007, 03:27 PM	#7
Randall_James Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6,727	Here is some grand reading about PO4 and PO3 levels http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...t2002/chem.htm __________________ "It's a dog eat dog world and I feel like I am wearing milkbone underwear"

01/12/2007, 07:04 PM	#8
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	Those TDS numbers don't make any sense. What are the units? You could add a DI cartridge to the RO system. That should remove any remaining phosphate. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

01/13/2007, 07:27 AM	#9
goldfishbowl Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: UK Posts: 61	The TDS unit states PPM - parts per million. Cheers Stu __________________ 70 Gal Reef Tank 40kg live rock Live Sand Tunze Sump, Skimmer, filters unit UV Filter Wave Maker x 3 powerheads Ozone and Redox monitor Osmilator (top up unit) T5 x 4 actinic 2 x 150w Halides -- Assorted marine fish, softcorals and polyps. Current Tank Info: 70 gal reef

01/13/2007, 01:51 PM	#10
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	The measurements from the TDS meter don't make sense for the tank, which shouldn't even be measureable. What type of meter is being used? __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

01/13/2007, 02:49 PM	#11
goldfishbowl Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: UK Posts: 61	Here's the unit I am using: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TDS-METER-MONI...QQcmdZViewItem Hope this helps! Stu __________________ 70 Gal Reef Tank 40kg live rock Live Sand Tunze Sump, Skimmer, filters unit UV Filter Wave Maker x 3 powerheads Ozone and Redox monitor Osmilator (top up unit) T5 x 4 actinic 2 x 150w Halides -- Assorted marine fish, softcorals and polyps. Current Tank Info: 70 gal reef

01/13/2007, 03:23 PM	#12
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	I don't think the measurements you're posting make enough sense that we can help. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

01/13/2007, 06:40 PM	#13
goldfishbowl Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: UK Posts: 61	I don't understand? The readings on the meter I got on the above link are shown above. You can see how the display is formated in the pictures. What format should TDS be in? Stu __________________ 70 Gal Reef Tank 40kg live rock Live Sand Tunze Sump, Skimmer, filters unit UV Filter Wave Maker x 3 powerheads Ozone and Redox monitor Osmilator (top up unit) T5 x 4 actinic 2 x 150w Halides -- Assorted marine fish, softcorals and polyps. Current Tank Info: 70 gal reef

01/13/2007, 06:44 PM	#14
Randall_James Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6,727	.24 is not a good measure, perhaps 24? and if that is the case, your RO unit is not doing very well. It should be somewhat lower than that. What is the "Before" reading (plain tap water) __________________ "It's a dog eat dog world and I feel like I am wearing milkbone underwear"