Four Busted for Illegally collecting in FL Keys

[spawner]

Originally posted by raskal311
This is much more common then you guys may think, just look at eBay.

Very true, they busted a "company" that was "legally collecting" Ricordea in the Keys and selling it on ebay and to lots of online and LA wholesalers for live rock violations. That was only a month or so ago. He of course was not really legally collecting it, at least not that day

[antonsemrad]

Originally posted by Kent E
The law needs to be changed. I'm not for destroying the reefs at all but I think the preceeding post puts it in perspective.

This over preservation melarchy has gotten freaky weird. Those who have a distain for this practice, I recomend you stop reefing and return your inhabitants back to their respective habitat where they will be promptly eaten.

Here is some more

perspective

"Unless humans act now, seafood may disappear by 2048, concludes the lead author of a new study that paints a grim picture for ocean and human health. "

I'm not asking you to buy in 'hook line and sinker'.

Just to think about it.

Sorry if its too far off topic, but it is in the news.

[bureau13]

That sounds suspiciously like something from an Al Gore movie.

jds

[spawner]

Well look at it this way. If you were a collector that paid or bought your collecting license, paid your taxes, paid for expenses, reported all your catches to the state of Florida, played by the rules and still made a good living, what would you think of a group of people coming down and stealing from you? This has more to do about following the laws in place and playing by the rules than it does about resource protection when it comes to the ornamentals they had in possession. However they had gravid stone crabs and undersized fish. Why have laws if your not going to enforce them. Why not just go to your nearest gas station and steal gasoline or your nearest drug store and steal your monthly pills. It’s the same thing, that resource is protected from commercial level collections by people without the proper permits to prevent four guys from driving down and filling up there van and taking away fisherman's livelihoods just as much as its protected for natural resources and conservation purposes. If it is ok for a group to load up on undersized fish and illegal catches why should we even have rules.

[BobbyM328]

please dont look at louisville badly, because of what these butt-plugs did !! if you have ever been in that store, you will know why they never sell anything in the SW hobby ... thier tanks are CRAP !! and EVERYTHING looks diseased or dying. just because they happen to be from my home town, doesn't mean that ALL the store owners do it. i can name 5 off the top of my head that i KNOW would never do what these IDIOTS did !!
i say throw the book at them ... twice !!

[RichConley]

Originally posted by MyCatsDrool
I really hope they are seriously punished. As a FL east coast resident, I know we NEED our reef, and people like this need to be punished.

You have to be kidding me. Every time you flush your toilet in florida, its having a much bigger affect on the reefs than these guys.

[syddakyd]

Originally posted by flipteg
it's "sickening" to collect marine life in US territory, but it's ok that we get our stuff from places in the Pacific Islands, Red Sea, etc. the only difference between the stuff we have in our tanks and the stuff that are in US territory reefs is government regulations... i'm not saying what they did was right... different laws apply in different territories... but that's the only difference, LAWS... everytime i read posts like these, people (the same people who keeps reef tanks) seem to be so disgusted and appalled by the nature of the crime... it seems like most people forget about the concept of it all... it's not just about following laws of different countries... it's about preserving the reefs no matter where it is...

what makes what they do so wrong, and what we do so right...? all of our stuff came from the same limited ecosystem of the reefs... again, the only difference is laws...

cosign 100%

[Putawaywet]

Originally posted by Ryanqk
this is bigtime bad. there are locals down here in the hobby that go collecting but only for small amounts of things like hermit crabs and snails, macroalgaes, and an occasional small fish but nothing on that scale, and most def not in order to profit from it! that is just sickening and they should get the book thrown at em!

Hmmmm, I can't help but wonder....

100 assorted locals collecting 1 fish each in an attempt to try and save a buck

or

1 person collecting 100 fish in an attempt to try and make a buck



Brett

[kryppy]

Originally posted by RichConley
You have to be kidding me. Every time you flush your toilet in florida, its having a much bigger affect on the reefs than these guys.

I have a septic tank.

[FloridaPets]

Here's some insight. Since 1997 there have been no new "marine Life" endorsements issued by the FWC. The FWC has decided that they could not enforce laws that they had come up with. So, they placed a moratoreum on the issuance of this endorsement. The "marine life" endorsement was issued to people who were in the business of selling fish. The ML endorsement had a qualifier so that not just anyone could get one, you had to show sales of marine life stock of over $5,000 in a years time and you had to have a Saltwater products license with a "restricted specis" endorsement. In 1996 the number of "ML" endorsements issued had reached about 500. Less than 10% of those endorsement holders were reporting their catches. Why was that? Likely , because a lot of the endorsement holders were from out of state or were comercial shrimpers and fishermen who used the endorsement to legally collect and sell by-catch to wholesalers and retailers. These "comercial" fishermen would not take the extra time to report their by-catch on top of any reporting and regulations they already had to follow. Anyway, when the FWC saw the numbers they decided in their infinite wisdom, oh, and with the council of those who already had "ML" endorsements, to stop handing out the endorsement. Here is what the endorsement allowed for; with this endorsement the numbers(bag limit) of marine life was greatly increased for commercial collectors. When the endorsement went away, so did the increased bag limits. So, what this means is; that since 1997 if you applied for a saltwater products license(which is a commercial license) giving you the ability to collect livestock for resale, you still have the same bag limits as a recreational collector collecting for his tank. The only difference is the "SPL" license is $50.00 and the rec. license is $13.00 from Wal-mart. Now if you really wanted to be in business in Florida and sell to petstores you needed a wholesale saltwater products license. Now you could collect(recreational limits of course) and sell to a pet store. This endorsement has a steeper qualifier as in annual sales and costs $450.00/yr. Picture this; your a licensed marine wholesaler after 1997. You have your saltwater products lisence and a restricted species endorsement and a wholesale license as well. You go out to collect some anemones, cucumbers and gorgonians. Here's what you can legally have for one days catch; 6 gorgonians, 7 anemones and 7 cucumbers. Now if you happen to come upon an area full of astrea snails, you either have to release your anemones and cucumbers or remember where the snails are for another day. Your licences have cost you $525.00 for a year which runs from May to June. So, I hope you didn't buy your licenses in February or April.
You could collect the exact same items with a wal-mart fishing license.
Now keep in mind this rediculus law is all due to the fact that rather than the FWC doing their job of enforcement, they decided to shrug their job and just elimate commercial collectors all together. They also asked the people who already had the "ML" endorsements what they should do about the lack of people reporting. Now, it only makes sense to me that if you ask a group of people who have access to large bag limits what they think should be done, their gonna say stop handing out "ML" endorsements and eliminate any future competition. Funny thing though, they still issue saltwater products lisences and restricted species endorsements and they still make a lot of money.
Don't get me wrong, I am all for conservation, it's my livihood, but these laws are ludicrous. It would also help if the FWC officers had a clue what they were doing. Half of them wouldn't know the difference between gorgonian coral and gracilaria macro algae. I actually had an officer ask me one time what I was going to do with all those plants. It was gorgonian corals he was looking at. I also had an officer erroneously write me a ticket for over the limit plants when the plant in question had no limit. Point is; they just haven't got a clue what they are doing. The ticket was dropped once I got to court.
The laws need to be overhauled and FWC needs to do a better job of enforcement and educating their own people. That's all I'm saying.

[old salty]

I can see both points of view. They weren't collecting, they were poaching. Though the environmental impact they were making is quite small, these folks knew they were collecting illegally. Since they have been doing it illegally for 8 years, I think the fine should reflect this. Jail time is rather pointless. "Hey what are you in for?" "Rape, murder, arson, and rape. You?" "I took a crab from the ocean." "Hardcore man, hardcore."

[reefbuzz]

Originally posted by RichConley
You have to be kidding me. Every time you flush your toilet in florida, its having a much bigger affect on the reefs than these guys.

The gulf stream brings run-off north, which is why the best reefs are south of Miami. But getting to some of the comments earlier, namely our impact on indo-pacific reefs:

* There are only two coral reef regions in the continental US, south Florida and the FlowerGardens MPA, so we have to protect what we have left.

* Indo-Pacific small island developing states have a lot of reef to manage compared to the US, and like our reefs, they are looked after quite well for the most part. There are almost zero untouched places on earth, and that's the sad part. Eco-tourism's on the move, good or bad?

[Tu Ku]

If anyone thinks that they don't have even one piece of coral or invertebrate life, a fish even, in there tanks that wasn't illegaly collected then you're flat out kidding yourself. Just because you've payed your legitimate money for it, doesn't mean in any way that it was acquired legitimately. I'm not saying people are cutting throats over smuggling corals yet, but even the most reputable commercial businesses handle poached or collected corals.

[plyle02]

Any True FL natives out there? Third generation here. When I was young each summer was spent in the Florida keys, fishing, lobstering, snorkeling, you get the picture, over 20 years ago.... These guys should not only be punished to the full extent of the law, but forbidden to ever cross the border again. Seems harsh right. Say that to someone who has watched their home (Daytona Beach), literally erode before their eyes. I have been surfing since I was eight years old, and cannot even begin to tell you how much less beach is available. Noone should be excused from breaking down our eco-system, sadly enough, just to make a buck. If you ever have the chance to visit John Pennecamp Coral Reef, then you would understand why this pis**s me off.

[pete620]

To those who believe those who believe that illegally collecting has no impact, and that environmental laws have no place consider this.
In the early 1800's when Ohio was first being settled it was about 97% forested. In less than 50 years Ohio's forest covering was reduced to about 4% due to uncontrolled logging. Also during this time period numerous animals such as wild turkeys, and mountain lions were extirpated from the state. And passenger pigeons were forced into extinction due to uncontrolled commercial hunting (the same could happen to reefs without regulations).

And to those who believe enforcement agencies need to do a better job, I agree with you. But look at one of the main reasons they can not do more, an extreme lack of funding. Take it from an out-of-work field biologist, I experience the lack of funding every time I look at the environmental job boards.

[toonces]

it's so easy to collect everything you could need/want legally in florida, i can't imagine why these guys would risk poaching.

don't do the crime if you can't do the time i guess.

[reef krazee]

small fine and probation
thats all they'll get
it happens alot down here

[FloridaPets]

And to those who believe enforcement agencies need to do a better job, I agree with you. But look at one of the main reasons they can not do more, an extreme lack of funding. Take it from an out-of-work field biologist, I experience the lack of funding every time I look at the environmental job boards.

Trust me, the Florida Fish and Wildlife commission has more money than they know what to spend it on. They've got man power and equipment out the wazoo. They're just extremely clueless.

[Jeremy Blaze]

I am really suprised how many here have sided with the poachers.

[60Cubed]

With all do respect, anyone who says that all of there rocks and corals are "aquacultered" are oblivious to reality. Even if you bought all of your stuff as aquacultered, most likely at some point one or more aren't the "real mc coy." And to get to the true grit about it, every coral was once a wild colony in the first place. Ripped from the reef, legally or illegally. So, do all of you, before buying a coral from your LFS ask if this was collected legally or not?.......... NO. And neither do I.

I do not agree with what the people did. They broke the law so they should be punished. What really gets me is the hipocracy I hear from you all. From what I hear is that it's ok to harvest, legally OR illegally because WE really don't know how each speciman was caught, from anywhere except the US to fulfill OUR (us reefers) selfish demand for this hobby! Believe me, there are people out there collecting illegally at overlimits. But there are also LFS's buying their product, then hobbiest buying from the LFS.

The truth is, we really don't know how everything is collected. We sit and rave about the colorful corals on Reefermadness, and his handpicked are wild colonies! Not aquacultered. So we need to try to put an end to it all, everywhere, worldwide. Make a statement not a point. Boycott all "Rappers of all reef," or be ok with rapping any reef. This is just another example of "American greed!" Do as I say, not as I do. We, as Americans, are so quick to protect our intrest, yet disreguard the world intrest when it benifits us. We do it with oil. It's ok to pump it from anywhere that will sell it to us, but we sit on one of the largest oil fields in North America, in Alaska, and our special intrest hippy, "earth loving Demacrats," won't allow us to drill it out because of ecoligical reasons! So we are forced to pay ridiculus amounts on petrolium because of our "American Policy" Again, do as I say, not as I do! It's a big hipocracy. We are all guilty!!!!!!!!!

[2swift]

Well I don't know what to say. It's certainly not the greatest thing for hobby I'm sure.
But one question to all.
When is the last time you payed it forward for the corals?
We all have them and trade or sell them.
But when was the last time you heard anyone say{ Hey I Planted a Coarl Frag On This Reef?}
I Personally think this "Hobby" Is and will be more then Just a Hobby. Soon It will be time to give back! But this to is JMHO!

[thegeneral]

I live down the street from Pets Palace and I wont buy so much as a filter from them,Besides from being dirty, the place smells of death.There are two really good stores here That should be checked out.The best in my opinion is Aquatica Reef Supply ,11481 Blankenbaker Access Dr 502-261-0720 .Todd and his wife run the place.It is very clean and the prices are good.This is strictly a marine aquarium store.They don't get much time off because they don't have any employees. But you wont hear them complain. they love this hobby.Todd also custom builds skimmers and tanks.Another is Sandy's pet shop.1421 hess ln.(502)636-2743. sandyspetshop.com. This is a full on pet shop. Birds, mammals, reptiles ect.Though they do have freashwater fish, they have a very nice marine section, corals too.Bruce runs the marine section and has degrees in his field.We go to fort myers every year and spend a couple of days at bahia honda.They should be made an example of.Not living on the ocean , we have a somewhat different view of things.We appreciate it a lot more, because we only get to see it once a year.But we also believe In....take nothing but a picture and leave nothing but a footprint.I just wanted to let people know not all the petstores here are run by POACHERS.
Allen c
Louisville Ky

[STsONpERs]

This does suck for the people who actually abide by the law.

Isnt this not a felony though, meaning they will only get 30 days and a $1000 fine MAX??