Coral Questions

[GuOD]

Hey everyone,

I have a question about 3 corals in my tank.

1. Is this a Montipora Danae and will it just keep growing in this plate shape? Will it ever have colorful polyps? (It's new)

[IMG]http://i7.*******.com/2hz49qr.jpg[/IMG]

2. My colt coral has been fallen over ever since I got it. Must be about 2 weeks now. It shrivels up when its up higher from the MH I think. I've tried placing it in various places but the trunk just droops over all the time. It still slimes when I touch it.

[IMG]http://i7.*******.com/445zbd4.jpg[/IMG]

3. I have my finger leather up near the very top of my tank, in a high flow area, and this is where it extends its polyps the most. Is this strange?

[IMG]http://i5.*******.com/4gdj7ef.jpg[/IMG]

Here is a picture of the tank for reference:

[IMG]http://i18.*******.com/2a5gn6s.jpg[/IMG]

Thanks!

[dippin61]

the first thing I'd do is take care of your nutrient problem. because until then, your not gonna get the colors or the results that you want.

[FischGuy]

Hey Dippin, what do you mean? Is there something you see in the photos?
Thanks.

[GuOD]

Originally posted by dippin61
the first thing I'd do is take care of your nutrient problem. because until then, your not gonna get the colors or the results that you want.

I have some exess nitrates because I've been slightly overfeeding (to help the fish battle ich). I've decided to stop that now.

I'm about to do a big 30% WC also.

Nitrates are ~10ppm, just a bit over.

[GuOD]

bump for hopefully some answers

The colt coral still is flopped over. Everything else is thriving. Nitrates are under 10ppm.

Here is a newer picture with slightly clearer water:
[IMG]http://i1.*******.com/2yyo7ja.jpg[/IMG]



I honestly don't know what to do to make my water clear. I have a fluval 404 but when I tried running it for 2 days it didn't do much - and of course it just goes back to looking like this.

[Racso]

Temperature?
Phosphates?
Ammonia/Nitrites?
Calcium? Magnesium?
Alkalinity?
pH?
How Old is the tank?
What filter do you have on it now?
What media do you use?
How old are the bulbs?
What fish and inverts do you have in there?
What kind of rocks? Where? Cured/Uncured?

Giving as much information as possible is the best place to start.

[rustybucket145]

By nutrients he means Your tank and inhabitants look like crap!! (no offense).

You didn't treat this tank with a copper medication? Did you???

On the ick thing some people here have had luck with soaking the fish food in garlic extract. They feed the fish the garlic soaked food and viola! ich be gone!

On the nutrients. You need to seriously CRANK UP your skimmer, do some water changes with RO/DI (you're not using tap water are you?) and get your water quality under control.

Until you get your water quality under control you're gonna loose lots of corals, and the ones that do survive are going to look like crap and never open.... until they eventually give in and die.

You also seem to have a micro-bubble issue. I would look the filtration/sump/skimmer system over and find out where they are coming from and eliminate them.

Good luck with this, it won't be much longer until it's out of control, it's best to jump on it now and nip the problems in the bud before you're entire tanks just an algae ses-pool.

[GuOD]

No offence taken.

Unfortunately I am using tap water only. I don't have a RODI OR a place to use it anyway (tap issues). I'm moving in April and will be using RODI water at that point.

The temperature is set to 26-27ish. I heard it was better for fighting ich and I don't have a chiller yet so I thought I'd keep it more stable.

Salt is IO (will be changing to Tropic Marin/MarinPro)
Calcium tested @ 520 (nothing has been added)
Nitrates are under 10ppm
Cannot test/do anything about phosphates
pH is fine - I have tons of oxygen exchange
Tank was started Nov 1
No filtration on the tank except for Coralife Super Skimmer 220
Light is brand new (that's when all the brown algae started - went from 260pc to 500mh+216w t5)
Note: I've been soaking food in garlic extreme from seachem and that is also when I noticed the brown algae outbreak.

Fish:
3 damsels, rabbitfish, yellow tang, blue tang (about to die from the ich)
2 starfish (serpent/fancy serpent I believe)
8 shrimp
bunch of snails/crabs
tuxedo urchin (love this thing)

All inverts are doing perfectly fine. Shrimp molts are found often and the shrimp all look great. Starfish also seem to be doing fine/growing even.

Rock was 100 lbs of base rock, 25 lbs of live rock.

If it is better to run the skimmer wet then I can do that. In about 1-2 days I can get about 2" of thick black/green skimmate the way I run it now. I have the water level about 1" above the red ring.

The microbubbles are from the algae. The algae forms bubbles and then eventually it pops up and gets thrown around the tank.

As I said before, all the corals are actually doing really well and growing. The only coral that's having trouble is that colt coral.


My friend and I were considering UV sterlizers to do a big cleanup. I am considering running one full time on my tank too so it would not be a waste. The thing is - I don't know much about them and don't want to make the wrong purchase.


I will also be adding a sump/refugium in April and most likely will upgrade to an H&S/Deltec or like skimmer.

[dippin61]

Well.. from the pictures i can tell he has a nutrient problem, because i can see all the algae on his rocks, and the brownish/yellowish color of his water, and all the bubbles his algae are making.

and from the paramters he gave us, he definitely needs to work on that before anything else.

Ca is a bit high, but not too important atm

'trates are high

Phosphate he didnt list, but i would assume its low because all his algae will use it up as its created. but its still a problem.

His ph might be a problem, since he didnt list it, oxygen exchange isnt the same as PH.

whats your alk levels? with high Ca i would assume you have low alk

but you should definately get your parameters in check, then you will notice things will get a lot better, from that alone.

HTH

[GuOD]

The Ca is probably just from the tap water + IO Salt mix. There's honestly nothing I can do about it really until I move.

The nitrates are high from my recent overfeeding - but I've seriously cut back and as more and more fresh water goes in it will continue to drop.

Phosphate - I have no way to measure/change this. I don't really know what's required either. Phosban reactor+chemical phosphate remover I think, but I don't know any details.

My pH was very high for many weeks straight (always the same) and I only stopped testing it a few weeks ago. Nothing has changed since then except for the light.

I might have an alk test but I'm not certain - I don't think I could do anything about this either unless I had a kalkwasser reactor???


I realise everyone is trying to help and I do appreciate it. Aside from the weird algae that could be caused by the new lighting... all the corals ARE doing well. Most have grown significantly. I don't think the water is as bad as it looks.

[Racso]

nitrates under 10ppm high? I know SPS keepers who TRY to keep their nitrates at about 10.

and as for the "using up phosphates as they are released" thing, that is the biggest load of crap I hear. While it may be true in some cases, its such a huge cop out that I hate it. First of all, if that was the case then there is no point in worrying about phosphate becuase there is nothing you can do. Second, algae that bad doesn't grow like that from slight phosphates.

He said he overfed recently, and I bet that it resulted more in a phosphate problem than anything.

Get a phospate test kit. Test your tank, test your tap. If then they are high, work on them.

[GuOD]

Just an update on my situation.

The nuissance algae (thick brown stuff like hair algae) has all been blown off and it's looking much better. I've found lots of coraline growth underneath it actually! I'm pretty pleased.

My friend did some water tests on my tank today as follows:

Nitrates 0 ppm
Nitritres 0 ppm
Ammonia 0 ppm (didn't even register on the matching color test thing)
SG is 1.023/4. I'm slowly lowering it a bit because I will be away from home for a week without top offs.
temp is at 25c

Moved the colt coral to my friends tank without MH. It's still struggling to stand upright. Don't really know what's wrong with it.

Since I can't really do anything about phosphates I guess I have to assume it's my problem? Is there any chance it will go away on its own?

Thanks

[plyle02]

IMO, I would make your next investment a RO/DI unit, they are not that expensive, and make all the difference for the tank and all inhabitants. Your set up sounds fine as far as equipment goes, but regardless it all starts with each drop of water entering your tank.... If not tested you a TDS meter with a reading of zero, I wouldn't add it to my tank. You will be very surprised with your results by making this investment. Someone also mentioned skimming, which I think is the next most important addition. I would use a skimmer rated for more than required for your tank. I also agree that you have a high phosphate problem. Refugiums can be a great assistance with nutrient export. Good luck, and keep us posted.

[GuOD]

Originally posted by plyle02
IMO, I would make your next investment a RO/DI unit, they are not that expensive, and make all the difference for the tank and all inhabitants. Your set up sounds fine as far as equipment goes, but regardless it all starts with each drop of water entering your tank.... If not tested you a TDS meter with a reading of zero, I wouldn't add it to my tank. You will be very surprised with your results by making this investment. Someone also mentioned skimming, which I think is the next most important addition. I would use a skimmer rated for more than required for your tank. I also agree that you have a high phosphate problem. Refugiums can be a great assistance with nutrient export. Good luck, and keep us posted.

I am going to purchase one in the near future from Filterguys (if they ship to Canada). I can't ue one in this house anyway as there are no taps to hook onto.

My skimmer is rated for 220, and it pulls out a TON of skimmate. CSS 220.

In April I will be adding a sump/fuge, and probably a new skimmer. Water will all be done through RO/DI and hopefully the problems will disappear.

Should I just transfer the rocks into my new tank as-is, or should I scrub them first and then transfer?

[plyle02]

I had a similair issue, where I might as well of been using tap, my r/o filter was no good at all. I had extremely high alk issues, and found out in a thread, Jim(The filter Guys), indicated that water here in FL can be very hard, and that was more than likely the issue. RO/DI is the way to go! After many water changes, I now have almost perfect conditions. Once your water params are in check, nuissance algae/ undesirables should naturally subside. IMHO, I would add a large sump, converting part of the sump to a refugium, on a reverse light cycle from your main tank. This will help to remove phosphates and nitrates, naturally... You mentioned you are @ 520 calcium, w/o buffering. My question is, what test kit are you using? Try Salifert. I seriously doubt it is that high... I put lots of calcium into my tank, and use reef crystals, and I struggle to maintain 410-420. BTW, check out the Euro Reef skimmers, they rock. Also, I hooked my ro/di filter up to my kitchen sink, they can be hooked up to almost any water outlet. Good luck.....

[spenick]

dkh is very important to test. you should do this several times a week, create a log to get an idea how it is running and then you may only have to test it 1-2 times a week. This is the most important test in reef keeping. Couple it with your Ca testing and adjust each accordingly depending on readings. You probably have other issues going on as well but get on top of your dkh for sure. Salifert makes the best test kit for both Ca and dkh

[dippin61]

Originally posted by Racso
nitrates under 10ppm high? I know SPS keepers who TRY to keep their nitrates at about 10.

and as for the "using up phosphates as they are released" thing, that is the biggest load of crap I hear. While it may be true in some cases, its such a huge cop out that I hate it. First of all, if that was the case then there is no point in worrying about phosphate becuase there is nothing you can do. Second, algae that bad doesn't grow like that from slight phosphates.

He said he overfed recently, and I bet that it resulted more in a phosphate problem than anything.

Get a phospate test kit. Test your tank, test your tap. If then they are high, work on them.

HAHAHA .. um.. ok..

first.. yes.. phosphates will come up low, in a system with lots of algae in it.. do you know why???? algae grows from high phosphates. its not a cop out.. its the truth. If you have lots of algae, all the NEW phosphate being created WILL be used up by the large amounts of algae. Thats fact. I didnt say he had a SLIGHT phosphate problem, i said it was a problem, and it probably more so then you think. Just because you cant fix something ATM, doesnt mean you shouldnt do anything about it. I mean ***? thats as stupid as saying, well, i cant breathe underwater, so i might as well still go diving without an air tank.. um huh?

and as far as nothing you can do.. of course you can do something.. its called limiting the amount of phosphates your tank has overall. You do that, algae dies, algae dies, cuz theres no phosphates for it to USE up. its as easy as using some phosphate remover in a media bag in your sump.. running a skimmer wet, feeding less, all kinds of things. how can you say theres nothing you can do about it?

second, im a BB sps keeper, so i know what parameters we like to keep, thank you very much. to me.. yes i think 10 of nitrate is BIT high. i didnt say very high, i said high. I run a BB tank for a reason. to keep parameters where I want them, and where they should be. Not some made up number i read somewhere on teh intrawebzorz.

and overfeeding a few times, for a few weeks, isnt going to throw you system outta whack like i see in the pictures. (remember, its just a picture, so things dont look quite the same as they would in person. so it might not be as bad as i think) As long as you have decent nutrient export. You wouldnt believe the amount of food i feed my tank. Do i have problems with phosphates? No. Know why? because i have efficient nutrient exporting.

and back to the OP, i never said your corals wouldnt do well.. they might be, at the time. but with better parameters, and husbandry, you get those more vibrant colors you are looking for in your first post.