Live Sand

an411 · 02/23/2007, 10:33 AM

I am looking for some input on filling my tank with Sand. I have a 120 gallon tank. I want a DSB I am thinking about 4 inches so I know that Live sand is going to be expensive. I calculated that i am going to need about 240 lbs of sand. What kind of sand do you guys recommend? Should I use Live sand or just go with Regular Home depot Sand? Any suggestions are appreciated. I Plan on eventually graduating to a reef tank. I dont't know if that has any affect on my decision.

Thanks

IMAGINEER · 02/23/2007, 11:15 AM

I have learned that just make sure it has an argonite base.
I dont think 4" is a good idea , maybe do a 2-3" base

IMAGINEER · 02/23/2007, 11:16 AM

I do wish there is a place to buy all the sand in one dump. Thats always been my problem.
200# of sand and Im all over the city !!

Randall_James · 02/23/2007, 11:18 AM

I prefer the "Reef Grade" sand from CaribSea.

As far as "Live Sand" goes, they sell a product that from my experience does seem to assist in the cycle process.

No need to buy all 240Lbs of it however. Maybe two 20lb bags and the other 200Lbs of the "reef grade" sand. I would just mix them up a bit as you add them.

Alternately, you could just use a silica based sand and allow your live rock to populate it. It will take a bit longer but the cost difference would be pretty dramatic ($20 vs $250). Just rinse the silica sand prior to use. Stories of "silicate" issues are greatly exaggerated...

I like aragonite sand myself for a couple reasons. It is natural for one, also the hardness. If you get a piece of silica sand between your magfloat and glass, it IS going to scratch your tank. The agagonite "can" scratch the glass but you have to work at it a bit. The glass is harder than the aragonite and so you get a bit of safety margin like that.

You could also use some live sand from a local reefer to seed your dead sand. Just a matter of how much trouble and expense you are willing to deal with.

virginiadiver69 · 02/23/2007, 11:22 AM

If you want to do a DSB 3" or more is recommended. I am in the process of putting one together myself. I am using mostly Caribsea oolitic and will add about 20-30lbs live sand on top. I am now shopping around for good quality live sand. I have heard of people using regular play sand but I just don't trust it. Aragonite all the way.
Good luck

six.line · 02/23/2007, 11:24 AM

Randall brings up excellent points.

I would add, however, that if you wanted to, you could only go with a 1 inch sand base and then add a bucket (home depot style) of sand filled 3/4 of the way. This will definitely give you your 'deep sand' base, eh?

It might be less sand for you to purchase and still give you the added benefit of a deep sand base.

Randall_James · 02/23/2007, 11:25 AM

More info on DSB

enemec1 · 02/23/2007, 11:35 AM

quick question, Can you add reef grade sand to some sand from HD. or would there be a problem with the two typs of sand mixing?

Randall_James · 02/23/2007, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by enemec1
quick question, Can you add reef grade sand to some sand from HD. or would there be a problem with the two typs of sand mixing?

They will stratify over time.

Density and grain size are different and the silica will settle to the bottom (is much more dense)

rustybucket145 · 02/23/2007, 12:10 PM

It will be fine to mix them. I personally would go with 100% HD sand and get a few cups of sand from a local established reef tank and seed the sand bed with it. There's literally no reason (other than looks) to spend a ton of money on sand. The HD sand will probably be silica sand which is fine in reef tanks, the LFS sand will be aragonite based which is also fine for fish tanks.

The reason that people use aragonite doesn't really make much sense to me. They say it helps 'buffer' the water (keeps calcium/alk in check) but the aragonite won't start 'buffering' the water until the ph is somewhere around 7. The fact is that if the ph in your tank is 7 you are going to have some MAJOR problems!! So there's really no benefit that I see to using aragonite other than looks or preference.

an411 · 02/23/2007, 01:12 PM

Yeah that makes sense to me I think that i might just go with some home depot sand and then layer some agronite sand over it to save some money and possibly get the better look that everyone claims you get from using it

TekCat · 02/23/2007, 01:51 PM

rustybucket145, I've heard somewhere what in the sand bed, where anoxic/anaerobic conditions occur, pH could be a lot less than what's in tank. I think that is one of the sand clumping causes. Silica sand does not "buffer". So, yeah, it makes sense to lay a layer of silica sand on the bottom, and aragonite sand on top. jmo

Ulric · 02/23/2007, 02:09 PM

Only thing with the silica (ie: Home depot sand), you need to rinse the snot out of it. There tends to be a lot of organic...junk in it.

Randall_James · 02/23/2007, 02:10 PM

TekCat is correct, I have to supplement aragonite sand in my tanks on a yearly basis and they see a ph of no lower than 8.0 due to kalk dosing.

I like the look of silica sand (is usually brighter) but it is murder on glass tanks that get cleaned on a regular basis (viewing panes) if you get even a little bit careless

enemec1 · 02/23/2007, 02:39 PM

here is the advantage for me I want to use it in a 70g fuge with a DSB. the display I will not need that much sand so I could use the aragonite but even so will that not still scrach the glass when cought in the mag float?

enemec1 · 02/23/2007, 10:48 PM

what sand should I buy kolorscape (blue and clear bag) or quickcreet alpurpous sand?

Randall_James · 02/23/2007, 10:53 PM

No the aragonite will not scratch the glass (well not easily)

Silica on the other hand will scratch the first time and every time it is caught in the magfloat.. You just need to have a differernt system for cleaning the glass near the level of the substrate.

enemec1 · 02/24/2007, 03:37 PM

I bought a bag of kolorscape and a bag of quickcreet neither of them fizzed. can I still use them?

TekCat · 02/24/2007, 11:19 PM

I've heard that folks are using kolorscape without any problems. Fizz test tests if the sand is calcium based. If it doesn't then it most likely silica based.

savethereef · 02/25/2007, 02:25 AM

ok guys i just got a 180 and dont want to cough up 250 dollars for sand. i can get it for about 1 dollar a pound. or i can buy dead reef sand for $39 for 50 pounds so i would save some $$$$. So if i get dead sand and about 20 pounds of LS that is more of a sugar type eould the sugar size stay on the top or will it go to the bottom under the reef sand.

enemec1 · 02/25/2007, 08:20 AM

the smaller size will make its way to the bottom

Shagsbeard · 02/25/2007, 09:34 AM

Just a warning to savethereef.... What typically happens to people who cut corners to save "$250 on sand" is that they end up with stuff that they regret doing later. Then they go out and spend the $250 on sand that they probably should have spent anyway. Lighting is the same. Spend $250 on some PC lights and you're probably going to be selling them for $25 in a garage sale when you replace them with better lights later. I'd recommend saving up about two grand before you start your tank, or aquireing bits and pieces over the course of a year or so before setting up your tank. Sand is a major expense... most people spend more on sand than they did for their tank. Wait until you start shopping for rock. Ouch.

02/23/2007, 10:33 AM	#1
an411 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Derby CT Posts: 2,861	Live Sand I am looking for some input on filling my tank with Sand. I have a 120 gallon tank. I want a DSB I am thinking about 4 inches so I know that Live sand is going to be expensive. I calculated that i am going to need about 240 lbs of sand. What kind of sand do you guys recommend? Should I use Live sand or just go with Regular Home depot Sand? Any suggestions are appreciated. I Plan on eventually graduating to a reef tank. I dont't know if that has any affect on my decision. Thanks

02/23/2007, 11:15 AM	#2
IMAGINEER Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: ORLANDO/CHARLOTTE Posts: 190	I have learned that just make sure it has an argonite base. I dont think 4" is a good idea , maybe do a 2-3" base __________________ LORD OF THE EEL !!

02/23/2007, 11:16 AM	#3
IMAGINEER Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: ORLANDO/CHARLOTTE Posts: 190	I do wish there is a place to buy all the sand in one dump. Thats always been my problem. 200# of sand and Im all over the city !! __________________ LORD OF THE EEL !!

02/23/2007, 11:18 AM	#4
Randall_James Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6,727	I prefer the "Reef Grade" sand from CaribSea. As far as "Live Sand" goes, they sell a product that from my experience does seem to assist in the cycle process. No need to buy all 240Lbs of it however. Maybe two 20lb bags and the other 200Lbs of the "reef grade" sand. I would just mix them up a bit as you add them. Alternately, you could just use a silica based sand and allow your live rock to populate it. It will take a bit longer but the cost difference would be pretty dramatic ($20 vs $250). Just rinse the silica sand prior to use. Stories of "silicate" issues are greatly exaggerated... I like aragonite sand myself for a couple reasons. It is natural for one, also the hardness. If you get a piece of silica sand between your magfloat and glass, it IS going to scratch your tank. The agagonite "can" scratch the glass but you have to work at it a bit. The glass is harder than the aragonite and so you get a bit of safety margin like that. You could also use some live sand from a local reefer to seed your dead sand. Just a matter of how much trouble and expense you are willing to deal with. __________________ "It's a dog eat dog world and I feel like I am wearing milkbone underwear"

02/23/2007, 11:22 AM	#5
virginiadiver69 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Va. Posts: 4,400	If you want to do a DSB 3" or more is recommended. I am in the process of putting one together myself. I am using mostly Caribsea oolitic and will add about 20-30lbs live sand on top. I am now shopping around for good quality live sand. I have heard of people using regular play sand but I just don't trust it. Aragonite all the way. Good luck __________________ Semi-aggressive mixed reef w/ shallow sand bed 96x30x27 310gal custom acrylic w/ ext. "fail safe" overflow 125gal sump/cryptic fuge w/ 6" DSB 3 400w Plus Rite 20k MH in Lumembrights 2 250w Plus Rite 20k MH in spider reflectors VHO actinic supplementation 2 Tunze wave boxes 2 Tunze 6060 in Tunze Rocks 2 Tunze 6125 Reeflo 250 skimmer Hammerhead return on OM 4 way Aqua controller lll Leviton power panel Deltec Eco-Cooler Randy's Two part 6.5 kw generator

02/23/2007, 11:24 AM	#6
six.line Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Logan, UT Posts: 775	Randall brings up excellent points. I would add, however, that if you wanted to, you could only go with a 1 inch sand base and then add a bucket (home depot style) of sand filled 3/4 of the way. This will definitely give you your 'deep sand' base, eh? It might be less sand for you to purchase and still give you the added benefit of a deep sand base. __________________ This post approved by Mrs. Sixline. assign <= six.line(#FFFFFF && string("nerdy")) Current Tank Info: 30 gallon with 10 gallon sump

02/23/2007, 11:25 AM	#7
Randall_James Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6,727	More info on DSB __________________ "It's a dog eat dog world and I feel like I am wearing milkbone underwear"

02/23/2007, 11:35 AM	#8
enemec1 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Rydal PA Posts: 907	quick question, Can you add reef grade sand to some sand from HD. or would there be a problem with the two typs of sand mixing? __________________ Help my wife is going to kill me, I'm spending my sons college funds. Current Tank Info: two 30 gallon cubes

02/23/2007, 12:10 PM	#10
rustybucket145 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: valdosta, ga Posts: 3,707	It will be fine to mix them. I personally would go with 100% HD sand and get a few cups of sand from a local established reef tank and seed the sand bed with it. There's literally no reason (other than looks) to spend a ton of money on sand. The HD sand will probably be silica sand which is fine in reef tanks, the LFS sand will be aragonite based which is also fine for fish tanks. The reason that people use aragonite doesn't really make much sense to me. They say it helps 'buffer' the water (keeps calcium/alk in check) but the aragonite won't start 'buffering' the water until the ph is somewhere around 7. The fact is that if the ph in your tank is 7 you are going to have some MAJOR problems!! So there's really no benefit that I see to using aragonite other than looks or preference. __________________ 400gals of various tanks in the same system. Current Tank Info: 2 175w MH, 2 VH0 Actinics, Lots of Live Rock, tons of copepods, a Fat Mandarin Goby, Niger Trigger, Yellow Tang, Falco Hawkfish, Bi-Color Pseudo, numerous soft, SPS and LPS Corals

02/23/2007, 01:12 PM	#11
an411 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Derby CT Posts: 2,861	Yeah that makes sense to me I think that i might just go with some home depot sand and then layer some agronite sand over it to save some money and possibly get the better look that everyone claims you get from using it

02/23/2007, 01:51 PM	#12
TekCat Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: MN Posts: 3,130	rustybucket145, I've heard somewhere what in the sand bed, where anoxic/anaerobic conditions occur, pH could be a lot less than what's in tank. I think that is one of the sand clumping causes. Silica sand does not "buffer". So, yeah, it makes sense to lay a layer of silica sand on the bottom, and aragonite sand on top. jmo

02/23/2007, 02:09 PM	#13
Ulric Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 27	Only thing with the silica (ie: Home depot sand), you need to rinse the snot out of it. There tends to be a lot of organic...junk in it.

02/23/2007, 02:10 PM	#14
Randall_James Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6,727	TekCat is correct, I have to supplement aragonite sand in my tanks on a yearly basis and they see a ph of no lower than 8.0 due to kalk dosing. I like the look of silica sand (is usually brighter) but it is murder on glass tanks that get cleaned on a regular basis (viewing panes) if you get even a little bit careless __________________ "It's a dog eat dog world and I feel like I am wearing milkbone underwear"

02/23/2007, 02:39 PM	#15
enemec1 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Rydal PA Posts: 907	here is the advantage for me I want to use it in a 70g fuge with a DSB. the display I will not need that much sand so I could use the aragonite but even so will that not still scrach the glass when cought in the mag float? __________________ Help my wife is going to kill me, I'm spending my sons college funds. Current Tank Info: two 30 gallon cubes

02/23/2007, 10:48 PM	#16
enemec1 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Rydal PA Posts: 907	what sand should I buy kolorscape (blue and clear bag) or quickcreet alpurpous sand? __________________ Help my wife is going to kill me, I'm spending my sons college funds. Current Tank Info: two 30 gallon cubes

02/23/2007, 10:53 PM	#17
Randall_James Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6,727	No the aragonite will not scratch the glass (well not easily) Silica on the other hand will scratch the first time and every time it is caught in the magfloat.. You just need to have a differernt system for cleaning the glass near the level of the substrate. __________________ "It's a dog eat dog world and I feel like I am wearing milkbone underwear"

02/24/2007, 03:37 PM	#18
enemec1 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Rydal PA Posts: 907	I bought a bag of kolorscape and a bag of quickcreet neither of them fizzed. can I still use them? __________________ Help my wife is going to kill me, I'm spending my sons college funds. Current Tank Info: two 30 gallon cubes

02/24/2007, 11:19 PM	#19
TekCat Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: MN Posts: 3,130	I've heard that folks are using kolorscape without any problems. Fizz test tests if the sand is calcium based. If it doesn't then it most likely silica based.

02/25/2007, 02:25 AM	#20
savethereef SCRK Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Bellflower 90706 CA (So Cal) Posts: 7,720	ok guys i just got a 180 and dont want to cough up 250 dollars for sand. i can get it for about 1 dollar a pound. or i can buy dead reef sand for $39 for 50 pounds so i would save some $$$$. So if i get dead sand and about 20 pounds of LS that is more of a sugar type eould the sugar size stay on the top or will it go to the bottom under the reef sand. __________________ Instead of building a reef in my home i would rather build my home in the reef. Rob aka STR SCRK & SCMAS MEMBER Current Tank Info: Leemar 450g 96L x36W x 30T 3/4 inch Starfire With 70g Sump Vertex 250 Royal Exclusive protein Skimmer Laguna 2900 Return pump 5 Aquaillumination Hydra's LED Modules. 4 Tunze Stream Bubble Magus Doser. Reef Keeper Elite

02/25/2007, 08:20 AM	#21
enemec1 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Rydal PA Posts: 907	the smaller size will make its way to the bottom __________________ Help my wife is going to kill me, I'm spending my sons college funds. Current Tank Info: two 30 gallon cubes

02/25/2007, 09:34 AM	#22
Shagsbeard Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Morro Bay, CA Posts: 2,143	Just a warning to savethereef.... What typically happens to people who cut corners to save "$250 on sand" is that they end up with stuff that they regret doing later. Then they go out and spend the $250 on sand that they probably should have spent anyway. Lighting is the same. Spend $250 on some PC lights and you're probably going to be selling them for $25 in a garage sale when you replace them with better lights later. I'd recommend saving up about two grand before you start your tank, or aquireing bits and pieces over the course of a year or so before setting up your tank. Sand is a major expense... most people spend more on sand than they did for their tank. Wait until you start shopping for rock. Ouch.