skimming with outside air.

Ehgemus · 02/25/2007, 11:30 AM

I am looking for ways to raise my ph. right now it runs 7.9-8.0 and would like to get it up to about 8.1 or more. I top off with lime water but that does not seam to help.
Now I am trying to raise my ph with outside air. I have a hose running from my skimmer intake out my window. Has anyone had any luck by doing this?

sir_dudeguy · 02/25/2007, 11:51 AM

never heard of doing that but it may work. But first, do you have any tops on the tank? (like plastic and/or glass ones). If so, remove them, cuz they dont allow for gas exchange. Also, do you have a powerhead blowing across the surface of the water to create surface agitation? If not, get one

That increases gas exchange, and when combined w/open top, you'll get a higher pH usually. If not, take a glass of tank water and put it outside with an airstone/bubbler in it for a while and then test for pH. If it is higher outside after about a half hour, then that means you got an indoor co2 problem

Ehgemus · 02/25/2007, 12:03 PM

I do not have glass tops on my tank. and as far as water movement I thank I have plenty for flow. other than my return pump I have a squid wave maker with a mag 9.5 running a close loop. This is a 46g tank
I will try the outdoor test.

commandertekki · 02/25/2007, 12:10 PM

Have u checked to see what's causing the pH drop... maybe a bad batch of salt...

Also, city water in my area runs 7.6... and I have a direct line from my RO unit to the tank itself since I evaporate 20g a day.

My recommendation is the kalwasser u are using needs to be around 12.0 in order to help.

sir_dudeguy · 02/25/2007, 12:15 PM

you say you have plenty of flow, but do you have surface agitation? You could have plenty of flow down low, but that doesnt nessesarily mean you got good surface agitation.

jimsta · 02/25/2007, 12:28 PM

Low pH could be a dozen things. Could have high co2 levels in his house, little agitation, not enough kalk in makeup water, calcium reactor effluent, bad salt, not enough salt, etc.

I have had experience running it with outside air and yes it makes a difference. I have seen pH go up to 8.5 while using outside air. Even when using no kalkwasser and lots of 6.8 effluent coming out of the reactor. So yes it does work, but I do think that it depends on the outside air itself.

The only problem I can imagine is having too long of an airline may restrict some air from being injected, which would hinder the skimmer. Not sure how much of a difference it would make but it is possible.

Hope it works for you!

Ehgemus · 02/25/2007, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sir_dudeguy
you say you have plenty of flow, but do you have surface agitation? You could have plenty of flow down low, but that doesnt nessesarily mean you got good surface agitation.

my return outlet is at the top of the water and it moves the water service around pretty good.
I am do the aeration test as we speak. and will post back in about 20 min.

Ehgemus · 02/25/2007, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by commandertekki
Have u checked to see what's causing the pH drop... maybe a bad batch of salt...

Also, city water in my area runs 7.6... and I have a direct line from my RO unit to the tank itself since I evaporate 20g a day.

My recommendation is the kalwasser u are using needs to be around 12.0 in order to help.

I have never tested the ph coming out of my ro/di unit. I will do that.
What size tank do you have that evaporate 20g a day?
for my lime water I use 1-tsp per gallon, mix and let it set about two hours and it is hoop up to a auto top off.

Ehgemus · 02/25/2007, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jimsta
[B

The only problem I can imagine is having too long of an airline may restrict some air from being injected, which would hinder the skimmer. Not sure how much of a difference it would make but it is possible.

Hope it works for you! [/B]

The air line is only 5' long and is 1/4" id so I thank it will be ok and it is just temporary to see what happens.

Ehgemus · 02/25/2007, 01:10 PM

Ok aeration test
tank water tested about 8.0
aeration tested about 8.1
I used two different test kits. and both show the same

So what is my next step.

rayjay · 02/25/2007, 09:22 PM

In that short time you found a .1 increase indicating that fresh air will help your air water exchange.
However, contrary to what one might think, fresh air to the skimmer will not do a lot for the problem.
Fresh air supply to the area immediately above the waters surface coupled with increased surface agitation WILL make a difference.
More interaction takes place at the water surface than any skimmer can do. Small bubbles do not promote that interaction.
Fresh air to the tank can be accomplished many ways. It could be as simple as opening a window, turning on a vent fan, or it may require, like my home, an HRV installation.
I may have missed it, but if you take pH readings throughout the day, you will find lower readings in the a.m., rising as the lights on period commences, with the highest readings at night just at lights out.

antony1103 · 02/25/2007, 09:30 PM

I directed fresh air from outside into my skimmer and my pH went from 7.9 to nearly 8.4. It took about 2 weeks but it slow rose to that level and rearly shifts .05 even at night.

sir_dudeguy · 02/25/2007, 09:42 PM

maybe give that glass of water more time outside and see what happens. Maybe 20 minutes isnt long enough?

But for the record, 8.0 is fine imo. Unless you're keeping very sensitive stuff, you're fine where you're at.

Ehgemus · 02/28/2007, 06:12 PM

Ok it was a very nice worm day today so I had the windows open for about 6 hours. I tested my ph and it was 8.1
How do I keep it there without leaving my windows opened?

02/25/2007, 11:30 AM	#1
Ehgemus Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Central City Ky Posts: 1,585	skimming with outside air. I am looking for ways to raise my ph. right now it runs 7.9-8.0 and would like to get it up to about 8.1 or more. I top off with lime water but that does not seam to help. Now I am trying to raise my ph with outside air. I have a hose running from my skimmer intake out my window. Has anyone had any luck by doing this?

02/25/2007, 11:51 AM	#2
sir_dudeguy Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 10,841	never heard of doing that but it may work. But first, do you have any tops on the tank? (like plastic and/or glass ones). If so, remove them, cuz they dont allow for gas exchange. Also, do you have a powerhead blowing across the surface of the water to create surface agitation? If not, get one That increases gas exchange, and when combined w/open top, you'll get a higher pH usually. If not, take a glass of tank water and put it outside with an airstone/bubbler in it for a while and then test for pH. If it is higher outside after about a half hour, then that means you got an indoor co2 problem __________________ TAKE...LUCK!!!

02/25/2007, 12:10 PM	#4
commandertekki Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Fort Worth, Texas Posts: 212	Have u checked to see what's causing the pH drop... maybe a bad batch of salt... Also, city water in my area runs 7.6... and I have a direct line from my RO unit to the tank itself since I evaporate 20g a day. My recommendation is the kalwasser u are using needs to be around 12.0 in order to help. __________________ 560g Oceanic RR custom tank.

02/25/2007, 12:15 PM	#5
sir_dudeguy Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 10,841	you say you have plenty of flow, but do you have surface agitation? You could have plenty of flow down low, but that doesnt nessesarily mean you got good surface agitation. __________________ TAKE...LUCK!!!

02/25/2007, 09:22 PM	#11
rayjay Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: London, Ontario, Canada Posts: 3,969	In that short time you found a .1 increase indicating that fresh air will help your air water exchange. However, contrary to what one might think, fresh air to the skimmer will not do a lot for the problem. Fresh air supply to the area immediately above the waters surface coupled with increased surface agitation WILL make a difference. More interaction takes place at the water surface than any skimmer can do. Small bubbles do not promote that interaction. Fresh air to the tank can be accomplished many ways. It could be as simple as opening a window, turning on a vent fan, or it may require, like my home, an HRV installation. I may have missed it, but if you take pH readings throughout the day, you will find lower readings in the a.m., rising as the lights on period commences, with the highest readings at night just at lights out. __________________ Seahorses. Culture nanno, rotifers and brine shrimp. Current Tank Info: Seahorses

02/25/2007, 12:03 PM	#3
Ehgemus Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Central City Ky Posts: 1,585	I do not have glass tops on my tank. and as far as water movement I thank I have plenty for flow. other than my return pump I have a squid wave maker with a mag 9.5 running a close loop. This is a 46g tank I will try the outdoor test.

02/25/2007, 12:28 PM	#6
jimsta Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: West Palm Beach, FL Posts: 540	Low pH could be a dozen things. Could have high co2 levels in his house, little agitation, not enough kalk in makeup water, calcium reactor effluent, bad salt, not enough salt, etc. I have had experience running it with outside air and yes it makes a difference. I have seen pH go up to 8.5 while using outside air. Even when using no kalkwasser and lots of 6.8 effluent coming out of the reactor. So yes it does work, but I do think that it depends on the outside air itself. The only problem I can imagine is having too long of an airline may restrict some air from being injected, which would hinder the skimmer. Not sure how much of a difference it would make but it is possible. Hope it works for you!

02/25/2007, 01:10 PM	#10
Ehgemus Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Central City Ky Posts: 1,585	Ok aeration test tank water tested about 8.0 aeration tested about 8.1 I used two different test kits. and both show the same So what is my next step.

02/25/2007, 09:30 PM	#12
antony1103 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 628	I directed fresh air from outside into my skimmer and my pH went from 7.9 to nearly 8.4. It took about 2 weeks but it slow rose to that level and rearly shifts .05 even at night. __________________ Anthony Current Tank Info: I help with Penn State's 125 and 500 gallon reef aquariums.

02/25/2007, 09:42 PM	#13
sir_dudeguy Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 10,841	maybe give that glass of water more time outside and see what happens. Maybe 20 minutes isnt long enough? But for the record, 8.0 is fine imo. Unless you're keeping very sensitive stuff, you're fine where you're at. __________________ TAKE...LUCK!!!

02/28/2007, 06:12 PM	#14
Ehgemus Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Central City Ky Posts: 1,585	Ok it was a very nice worm day today so I had the windows open for about 6 hours. I tested my ph and it was 8.1 How do I keep it there without leaving my windows opened?