Crazy idea on plumbing for overflow on a AGA aquarium

johndonaldson3 · 03/13/2007, 12:02 PM

This question is for all of the veteran plumbers out there. I am in the process of plumbing a AGA 120gal in wall. I will be using a Sequence Barracuda pump along with an Oceans Motions. I was thinking of using all 4 predrilled wholes for overflows and plumbing my pump lines over the back of the aquarium similar to a closed loop. By using four overflows I was hoping to increase the amount of flow that the aquarium is able to handle and I don't really want to restrict my pump lines by plumbing them through the 3/4 inch holes used for pump lines. What do you think? Anyone ever try this and have any success?

corndogg · 03/13/2007, 12:46 PM

The overflow itself is only capable of handling so much flow. You would be capable of handling some increase but would probably have to throttle back the pump a bit. The downside would be the noise...you would have more water going "over the falls" and the splashing noise might be too much for you to handle.

I just recently installed another return pump on my 210 because one wasn't provide enough flow through my chiller causing it to run excessively. Now I have two iwaki 30's rated for 960gph each and noticed a difference in noise once I added the second. If I could do it again, I would drill for a closed loop so I wouldn't have as high a turnover through my sump.

My point is whether you have the overflow's return line plumbed as a drain or a return, you will max out the teeth of the overflow with that big a return pump and won't make a difference whether or not there is additional drainage inside the overflow. BTW, AGA recommends 600gph per overflow.

drummereef · 03/13/2007, 01:35 PM

It does work, but I think you might have to modify the 'mega-flow' overflows to do it effectively. There are a few threads I've seen this done before. Wish I could remember where they were.

johndonaldson3 · 03/13/2007, 05:01 PM

drummer

thanks,I've seen the mod also, cutting out the teeth and using gutter guard in it's place. I was hoping to not have to do that but I will if I have to. I was interested if anyone else had acually used two overflows in one return. Anyone?

mc-cro · 03/13/2007, 05:15 PM

If I understand you correctly, that is what I have done.

in my overflow, I had the drain, and the factory return. I plumbed them both for drains, and ran the return over the back of the tank. It does work, but again, the overflow, even with all the teeth cutout, can still only handle so much.

to eliminate the noise from so much water falling, I have 1 of the drains with only a strainer at the bottom coming out of the bulkhead. I put a gate valve on this, so I can precisely control the amount of flow. In the second hole, I put a regular durso pipe. So, I close the gate valve just enough to allow the water in the overflow to rise until it just reaches the durso, which is only like an inch down from the overflow teeth. only a small amount of water actually trickles into the durso, but if the main drain line ever get clogged, the durso is capapable of taking over as an emergency drain. It is perfectly silent, and can handle way more than the overflow.

johndonaldson3 · 03/14/2007, 06:45 AM

mc,

that is exactly what I was going to do with the strainer and a duroso in each overflow. Do you have any problems with the strainer making a suction whirlpool? Also, did you modify your overflow teeth with the gutter mesh?

gabe3d · 03/14/2007, 10:40 AM

You will probably be interested in what i did. You can take a look at my redhouse under 210 gallon.

2 x 3/4'' drain to sump with Dart as a return
2 x 1'' directly connected to Hammerhead as closed loop

Removed all teeth and more on the overflow.

Gabe

E-A-G-L-E-S · 03/14/2007, 10:43 AM

why not use the barracuda as a CL and get a proper rated return pump to max out skimming efficiency?

I ran all four in my old 2 overflow 210g AGA for redundancy, but ran a Eheim 1262 for my return, so they were all only draing ~200gph each hole...no noise

mc-cro · 03/14/2007, 03:26 PM

no problems with whirlpools or other suction, although I did recently have a peppermint that insisted on climbing into the overflow, and he was killed when he got sucked to the strainer.

yes, I cut ALL the teeth off the overflow except 3. 1 on each end and one on the middle, then used cableties to secure the gutter guard to the 3 overflowteeth . have been using it like this for years.

something to be aware of, start up after pumps have been shut down can be risky, depending on how much flow you actually have. If you have too much back pressure on your main drainline, it can take a few seconds before the water column overcomes this, blows out the line and creates a full siphon. In the meantime, the durso has to catch up with the extra flow. and it too has to overcome a certain amount of backpressure before it starts its full siphon to take over.

Mydouble failsafe is that on the durso I have a vent airline coming out of the top of it. (most people use this to tune the durso) In this setup, you want the durso to normally have plenty of air.(it doesnt hurt becuase you should barely have any water flowing throw it so bubbles arent an issue.) I have taken this airhose and it is bent back over and tied to the durso so that the end of the hose is exactly at the point of maximum capicity of the overflow.

What happens on start up, as the water rises while the pressure builds for the full siphon, the water rises to the top of the durso, water submerges the end of the vent line, causing full syphon of the durso, the durso then goes into "turbo" mode and drains all the water until the main pipe catches up and levels itself off.

little complicated to explain, but it works perfect, evertime, for years.

xenon · 03/14/2007, 03:45 PM

There is no need to have 4 overflows.

AGA designed the skimmer boxes to handle 600gph/each for a reason. You only need 3-5X turnover thru your sump and make sure your skimmer matches.

I use a barracuda thru an OM 4way on my 90g and its great!

mc-cro · 03/14/2007, 03:52 PM

actually, .........your right. that much turnover through the sump is not absolutely needed.

when I did mine, it was before I had drilled the tank for a closed loop, which, really is the best way to increase turnover in the tank. but now that I have drilled the tank for a closed loop, I kept the overflows running at max, basically because I can, and having the extra flow isnt going a bad thing. Also, from the main drain, I run it through the skimmerbox, through a lagoon, and through a fuge. So I have plenty of flow everywhere.

landfish · 03/14/2007, 05:26 PM

Xenon

That is one sweet looking set up for your closed loop!

03/13/2007, 12:02 PM	#1
johndonaldson3 Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Merritt Island Florida Posts: 172	Crazy idea on plumbing for overflow on a AGA aquarium This question is for all of the veteran plumbers out there. I am in the process of plumbing a AGA 120gal in wall. I will be using a Sequence Barracuda pump along with an Oceans Motions. I was thinking of using all 4 predrilled wholes for overflows and plumbing my pump lines over the back of the aquarium similar to a closed loop. By using four overflows I was hoping to increase the amount of flow that the aquarium is able to handle and I don't really want to restrict my pump lines by plumbing them through the 3/4 inch holes used for pump lines. What do you think? Anyone ever try this and have any success?

03/13/2007, 01:35 PM	#3
drummereef Team RC Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: STL Posts: 14,754	It does work, but I think you might have to modify the 'mega-flow' overflows to do it effectively. There are a few threads I've seen this done before. Wish I could remember where they were. __________________ -Brett 180g Marineland Starfire In-Wall 278 gallon system

03/13/2007, 05:15 PM	#5
mc-cro (macro) Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 2,238	If I understand you correctly, that is what I have done. in my overflow, I had the drain, and the factory return. I plumbed them both for drains, and ran the return over the back of the tank. It does work, but again, the overflow, even with all the teeth cutout, can still only handle so much. to eliminate the noise from so much water falling, I have 1 of the drains with only a strainer at the bottom coming out of the bulkhead. I put a gate valve on this, so I can precisely control the amount of flow. In the second hole, I put a regular durso pipe. So, I close the gate valve just enough to allow the water in the overflow to rise until it just reaches the durso, which is only like an inch down from the overflow teeth. only a small amount of water actually trickles into the durso, but if the main drain line ever get clogged, the durso is capapable of taking over as an emergency drain. It is perfectly silent, and can handle way more than the overflow. __________________ Time is the most valuable thing you have... spend it wisely Current Tank Info: 60x26x24 AGE 3 sided starphire

03/14/2007, 10:43 AM	#8
E-A-G-L-E-S Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Lehigh Valley, PA Posts: 7,038	why not use the barracuda as a CL and get a proper rated return pump to max out skimming efficiency? I ran all four in my old 2 overflow 210g AGA for redundancy, but ran a Eheim 1262 for my return, so they were all only draing ~200gph each hole...no noise __________________ Smug Egotistical Contemptuous It's difficult to get a man to understand something that his salary requires him not to.

03/14/2007, 03:26 PM	#9
mc-cro (macro) Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 2,238	no problems with whirlpools or other suction, although I did recently have a peppermint that insisted on climbing into the overflow, and he was killed when he got sucked to the strainer. yes, I cut ALL the teeth off the overflow except 3. 1 on each end and one on the middle, then used cableties to secure the gutter guard to the 3 overflowteeth . have been using it like this for years. something to be aware of, start up after pumps have been shut down can be risky, depending on how much flow you actually have. If you have too much back pressure on your main drainline, it can take a few seconds before the water column overcomes this, blows out the line and creates a full siphon. In the meantime, the durso has to catch up with the extra flow. and it too has to overcome a certain amount of backpressure before it starts its full siphon to take over. Mydouble failsafe is that on the durso I have a vent airline coming out of the top of it. (most people use this to tune the durso) In this setup, you want the durso to normally have plenty of air.(it doesnt hurt becuase you should barely have any water flowing throw it so bubbles arent an issue.) I have taken this airhose and it is bent back over and tied to the durso so that the end of the hose is exactly at the point of maximum capicity of the overflow. What happens on start up, as the water rises while the pressure builds for the full siphon, the water rises to the top of the durso, water submerges the end of the vent line, causing full syphon of the durso, the durso then goes into "turbo" mode and drains all the water until the main pipe catches up and levels itself off. little complicated to explain, but it works perfect, evertime, for years. __________________ Time is the most valuable thing you have... spend it wisely Current Tank Info: 60x26x24 AGE 3 sided starphire

03/13/2007, 12:46 PM	#2
corndogg Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: (707) Posts: 720	The overflow itself is only capable of handling so much flow. You would be capable of handling some increase but would probably have to throttle back the pump a bit. The downside would be the noise...you would have more water going "over the falls" and the splashing noise might be too much for you to handle. I just recently installed another return pump on my 210 because one wasn't provide enough flow through my chiller causing it to run excessively. Now I have two iwaki 30's rated for 960gph each and noticed a difference in noise once I added the second. If I could do it again, I would drill for a closed loop so I wouldn't have as high a turnover through my sump. My point is whether you have the overflow's return line plumbed as a drain or a return, you will max out the teeth of the overflow with that big a return pump and won't make a difference whether or not there is additional drainage inside the overflow. BTW, AGA recommends 600gph per overflow.

03/13/2007, 05:01 PM	#4
johndonaldson3 Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Merritt Island Florida Posts: 172	drummer thanks,I've seen the mod also, cutting out the teeth and using gutter guard in it's place. I was hoping to not have to do that but I will if I have to. I was interested if anyone else had acually used two overflows in one return. Anyone?

03/14/2007, 06:45 AM	#6
johndonaldson3 Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Merritt Island Florida Posts: 172	mc, that is exactly what I was going to do with the strainer and a duroso in each overflow. Do you have any problems with the strainer making a suction whirlpool? Also, did you modify your overflow teeth with the gutter mesh?

03/14/2007, 10:40 AM	#7
gabe3d Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Elk Grove/Sunnyvale/Shibuya Posts: 1,605	You will probably be interested in what i did. You can take a look at my redhouse under 210 gallon. 2 x 3/4'' drain to sump with Dart as a return 2 x 1'' directly connected to Hammerhead as closed loop Removed all teeth and more on the overflow. Gabe

03/14/2007, 03:45 PM	#10
xenon Owner of Canada Corals Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Mississauga, Canada Posts: 3,148	There is no need to have 4 overflows. AGA designed the skimmer boxes to handle 600gph/each for a reason. You only need 3-5X turnover thru your sump and make sure your skimmer matches. I use a barracuda thru an OM 4way on my 90g and its great!

03/14/2007, 03:52 PM	#11
mc-cro (macro) Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 2,238	actually, .........your right. that much turnover through the sump is not absolutely needed. when I did mine, it was before I had drilled the tank for a closed loop, which, really is the best way to increase turnover in the tank. but now that I have drilled the tank for a closed loop, I kept the overflows running at max, basically because I can, and having the extra flow isnt going a bad thing. Also, from the main drain, I run it through the skimmerbox, through a lagoon, and through a fuge. So I have plenty of flow everywhere. __________________ Time is the most valuable thing you have... spend it wisely Current Tank Info: 60x26x24 AGE 3 sided starphire

03/14/2007, 05:26 PM	#12
landfish Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 29	Xenon That is one sweet looking set up for your closed loop!