turnover rate???3-5x or 10x+

heyfredyourhat · 03/19/2007, 10:22 PM

Okay i may be mis-informed on this, but, turnover in tank 10 times or more, but only 5x in sump?? Now is that due to smaller sump sizes or less flow in sump and more flow in tank due to CL??? I think now i have just confused myself....ummm can someone pls point me in the right direction..

xenon · 03/19/2007, 10:24 PM

your return pump should be the one to determine the amount of flow thru your sump.

the other powerheads in your tank add to the turnover rate in your tank.

amike5 · 03/19/2007, 10:35 PM

If you have a refugium, about 3X should go through your refugium; the other 7X should go through your skimmer area and/or powerheads or closed loop. Keep in mind that 10X turnover is a minimum. If you are going to keep stonies or anything, you should have about 25-40X turnover. 10X is good for FOWLR.

drummereef · 03/19/2007, 10:39 PM

3-5x flow in the sump, which is determained by the return pump. I would aim for at least 20x flow, including the return pumps flow, for the display. You do this by either powerheads in the display or a closed loop system.

mg426 · 03/19/2007, 11:18 PM

3 to 5 times through the sump. A high flow rate through the sump can cause problems with microbubbles.

heyfredyourhat · 03/20/2007, 12:32 AM

How would i route it if i wanted 10x in display, but only 3-5x in sump???

jer77 · 03/20/2007, 12:43 AM

The sump flow is added in to the 20X flow you want in your display tank, but is only a fraction of what is flow is produced. So the flow back from the sump will be the same as the sump flow. The rest of the flow is accomplished by adding a CL with a separate pump or by using powerheads.

heyfredyourhat · 03/20/2007, 12:59 AM

i think i misunderstand....1500gph drains into sump, then skimmer, then return pump and backup it goes?? that seems like alot of water to be moving through a sump...???

jer77 · 03/20/2007, 01:10 AM

Hmmm...Only 3-5X flow through your sump. The drains only will have 3-5X flow and the return as well. The closed loop is separate from the whole system, there is no "routing" any extra flow to bypass the sump. Think of it as two separate engines if your into autobody. The closed loop has most of the flow, say the other 15-17X powered by a separate pump.

uscharalph · 03/20/2007, 01:12 AM

So if I have a Rio 17HF return pump which is rated at 4 foot climb to pump 840 gallons per hour and my tank size is 55 gallons, does that mean I'm at a little over 15X (840/55)?

jer77 · 03/20/2007, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by uscharalph
So if I have a Rio 17HF return pump which is rated at 4 foot climb to pump 840 gallons per hour and my tank size is 55 gallons, does that mean I'm at a little over 15X (840/55)?

You would if you did this, but I'd recommend against it. You'd get a lot of microbubbles in your sump, depending on what size it is. I'd save that pump for a closed loop, and get a smaller pump for your return.

heyfredyourhat · 03/20/2007, 01:36 AM

maybe i am just tired, so if i want 10x(1200gph) then 1200 gph goes through sump, right??, but then how do u control micro bubbles, if thats what the issues of lots of flow through the sump is

heyfredyourhat · 03/20/2007, 01:39 AM

oh, i just re-read what you have been trying to tell me. So, CL handles majority of the flow, drains/returns just enough to basically skim...i gotcha now, makes perfect sense

jer77 · 03/20/2007, 01:41 AM

Maybe you are tired... Only 360-600 gph through the sump! So there are no microbubbles plus it allows for better skimmer performance.

heyfredyourhat · 03/20/2007, 01:44 AM

yes, thank you. i do understand now!

heyfredyourhat · 03/20/2007, 01:47 AM

so then a 1" hole handles 600gph, and using 2 1"drains is just a precautionary thing...thats cool that u pointed me in the right direction, i now have to rethink plumbing

03/19/2007, 10:22 PM	#1
heyfredyourhat Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: BC Canada Posts: 963	turnover rate???3-5x or 10x+ Okay i may be mis-informed on this, but, turnover in tank 10 times or more, but only 5x in sump?? Now is that due to smaller sump sizes or less flow in sump and more flow in tank due to CL??? I think now i have just confused myself....ummm can someone pls point me in the right direction..

03/19/2007, 10:39 PM	#4
drummereef Team RC Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: STL Posts: 14,754	3-5x flow in the sump, which is determained by the return pump. I would aim for at least 20x flow, including the return pumps flow, for the display. You do this by either powerheads in the display or a closed loop system. __________________ -Brett 180g Marineland Starfire In-Wall 278 gallon system

03/19/2007, 11:18 PM	#5
mg426 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: maryland Posts: 6,923	3 to 5 times through the sump. A high flow rate through the sump can cause problems with microbubbles. __________________ I found a way to make a small fortune running a reef tank. Start with a large fortune. Unofficial President of the SEACLONE haters club Current Tank Info: 125 mixed reef 110 lbs LR, 1x250watt XM 20K MH 2x175watt XM 20K MH on Magetics 2X96 watt actinic PC, 220 watt VHO actinic, 30 gallon refugium, closed loop system powered by Sequence Dart MSX 200 skimmer 38 gallon sump, Oceansmotions squirt

03/20/2007, 12:43 AM	#7
jer77 Phish Lover Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 2,642	The sump flow is added in to the 20X flow you want in your display tank, but is only a fraction of what is flow is produced. So the flow back from the sump will be the same as the sump flow. The rest of the flow is accomplished by adding a CL with a separate pump or by using powerheads. __________________ - Jonny -, 120g 5 Year Old Reef w/ SPS, BTA, Zoos & some Softies. 40g Frag Tank. 40g Sump. Super Reef Octopus XP 3000 External Cone Skimmer. 250W Radiums. TaoTronics LED. PanWorld 200PS w/SQWD

03/20/2007, 01:10 AM	#9
jer77 Phish Lover Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 2,642	Hmmm...Only 3-5X flow through your sump. The drains only will have 3-5X flow and the return as well. The closed loop is separate from the whole system, there is no "routing" any extra flow to bypass the sump. Think of it as two separate engines if your into autobody. The closed loop has most of the flow, say the other 15-17X powered by a separate pump. __________________ - Jonny -, 120g 5 Year Old Reef w/ SPS, BTA, Zoos & some Softies. 40g Frag Tank. 40g Sump. Super Reef Octopus XP 3000 External Cone Skimmer. 250W Radiums. TaoTronics LED. PanWorld 200PS w/SQWD

03/19/2007, 10:24 PM	#2
xenon Owner of Canada Corals Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Mississauga, Canada Posts: 3,148	your return pump should be the one to determine the amount of flow thru your sump. the other powerheads in your tank add to the turnover rate in your tank.

03/19/2007, 10:35 PM	#3
amike5 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Englewood, CO Posts: 724	If you have a refugium, about 3X should go through your refugium; the other 7X should go through your skimmer area and/or powerheads or closed loop. Keep in mind that 10X turnover is a minimum. If you are going to keep stonies or anything, you should have about 25-40X turnover. 10X is good for FOWLR.

03/20/2007, 12:32 AM	#6
heyfredyourhat Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: BC Canada Posts: 963	How would i route it if i wanted 10x in display, but only 3-5x in sump???

03/20/2007, 12:59 AM	#8
heyfredyourhat Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: BC Canada Posts: 963	i think i misunderstand....1500gph drains into sump, then skimmer, then return pump and backup it goes?? that seems like alot of water to be moving through a sump...???

03/20/2007, 01:12 AM	#10
uscharalph Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Long Beach, CA Posts: 1,248	So if I have a Rio 17HF return pump which is rated at 4 foot climb to pump 840 gallons per hour and my tank size is 55 gallons, does that mean I'm at a little over 15X (840/55)? __________________ Ralph Mendoza Jr. Long Beach, CA Current Tank Info: 80 Gallon Reef Tank

03/20/2007, 01:36 AM	#12
heyfredyourhat Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: BC Canada Posts: 963	maybe i am just tired, so if i want 10x(1200gph) then 1200 gph goes through sump, right??, but then how do u control micro bubbles, if thats what the issues of lots of flow through the sump is

03/20/2007, 01:39 AM	#13
heyfredyourhat Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: BC Canada Posts: 963	oh, i just re-read what you have been trying to tell me. So, CL handles majority of the flow, drains/returns just enough to basically skim...i gotcha now, makes perfect sense

03/20/2007, 01:41 AM	#14
jer77 Phish Lover Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 2,642	Maybe you are tired... Only 360-600 gph through the sump! So there are no microbubbles plus it allows for better skimmer performance. __________________ - Jonny -, 120g 5 Year Old Reef w/ SPS, BTA, Zoos & some Softies. 40g Frag Tank. 40g Sump. Super Reef Octopus XP 3000 External Cone Skimmer. 250W Radiums. TaoTronics LED. PanWorld 200PS w/SQWD

03/20/2007, 01:44 AM	#15
heyfredyourhat Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: BC Canada Posts: 963	yes, thank you. i do understand now!

03/20/2007, 01:47 AM	#16
heyfredyourhat Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: BC Canada Posts: 963	so then a 1" hole handles 600gph, and using 2 1"drains is just a precautionary thing...thats cool that u pointed me in the right direction, i now have to rethink plumbing