Miracle Mud How much?

[Seehag]

Ok, pulling closer now to starting, finally... My refugium is 15"x12", how deep should the miracle mud be in here for the fuge. On the box of miracle mud it say's for a 125 gallon tank I should have 30# seems like alot would probably fill the fuge up. It also say's about 1" deep. So I would think it would be more like 5-10 pounds. Any thought's on this would help. The lfs said they unsually use 1 5# canister in there fuges.


Art

[JohnF]

Not many people seem to think that Miracle Mud does much of anything to help your tank out.
I have not used it and will not use it.
Hopefully more people will respond and steer you in the right direction.

[Snowboarda42]

never used it, but i've heard great things, after you dump it in, you'll want to wait for the stuff to settle before you run any current across it.

I'd keep about 1.5 inches in the bottom of your fuge.

[PatMayo]

I don't have any first hand experience with it myself. I think it ends up being more trouble than what it's worth. At least in the discussions I have seen on RC.

I don't know that I would use that until I did some thorough research on the pro's and con's.

Regards,

Pat

[Seehag]

Well that's good to know the lfs said it was the best stuff. I will look around for more info. The problem is the search only work's intermitantly. What would you use if not miracle mud?


Art

[bertoni]

I just have macroalgae and some leftover live rock in my refugium. The mud is useful for growing true plants, like mangroves or sea grass, but not that useful in general, in my opinion.

[Seehag]

Bertoni,

Maybe I need to look into the fuge a little more. I thought that I had that part figured out but I guess not. My local lfs told me mud and they have grass and plant's to plant in the mud ( never really looked to see what they were called doh.. ) Maybe I should be thinking more along the lines of what do I need to do with my fuge... Then figure out what to put in the bottom. I had planned on having live rock in there, and macro algae to feed up to the tank when it work's it's way through. What else should be in there?


Art

[davocean]

My LFS really pushed the mud onto me when I was looking to increase pods.
I should have known better.
My tank was prestine until the add of mud.
3 days later I'm scrubbing algae off my glass every 2-3 days.
I dumped it and my tank slowly went back to norm.
Waste of time and money.
Now I'm w/ just LR rubble and chaeto, that's all you need.

[DrBegalke]

I have used miracle mud, and think it works great if you are also using macro algae.

IMO it basicly is a slow release fertilizer for things like iron, which macro's can quickly deplete, limiting there growth.

If you decide to use it, I'd put a 1 inch layer on top of about 4 inches of sugar sized sand, for a true deep sand bed.

If not, you can probably accomplish similar results by using an aragonite type mud and simply dosing iron.

[PatMayo]

Originally posted by DrBegalke
I have used miracle mud, and think it works great if you are also using macro algae.

IMO it basicly is a slow release fertilizer for things like iron, which macro's can quickly deplete, limiting there growth.

If you decide to use it, I'd put a 1 inch layer on top of about 4 inches of sugar sized sand, for a true deep sand bed.

If not, you can probably accomplish similar results by using an aragonite type mud and simply dosing iron.

Randy Holmes did some testing on his tanks and iron dosed into his tank only seemed to affect 1 certain macro algae. It was not cheato but that other type which I can't remember now that greened up with Iron dosage. So while there may be some truth to the above statement it may not work on all macro algae and the positive does not seem to outweigh the possible negative.

Regards,

Pat

[Seehag]

What would be the problem with just using some of the sand that I get with my rock frm TBS? Can it support plants in it? I was planning live rock in it but not sure how much I kinda figured just a couple of pounds. I have seen the macro growing without touching the sand or mud. If anyone knows of a good site to read up on fuge stuff I would like the point. I will check Melev's.


Art

[mk2flip]

if you use mud it has to be covered by at least acouple inches of sand. i removed mine, and from what i hear it has to be replaced in 3-4 years anyway.

[PatMayo]

That is correct it has to be replaced. Most folks that use it replace 1/2 at a time otherwise you can crash the fuge. Sounds like too much work for me for the benefit.

Regards,

Pat

[jdjeff58]

Originally posted by Seehag
The problem is the search only work's intermitantly.

'Search Tools' on the RC home page gets you in the back door.

[bertoni]

Sand won't support true plants very well, but most refugia have algae, and many of those don't need any substrate at all. Those that do require a substrate will be fine with sand or live rock, depending on the type.

[DrBegalke]

Originally posted by PatMayo
Randy Holmes did some testing on his tanks and iron dosed into his tank only seemed to affect 1 certain macro algae. It was not cheato but that other type which I can't remember now that greened up with Iron dosage. So while there may be some truth to the above statement it may not work on all macro algae and the positive does not seem to outweigh the possible negative.

Regards,

Pat

Randy doses iron on his own system...

I've never seen an article from Randy were he stated that iron affected one certain macroalgae....

As far as 'possible negative,' here's what Randy said:

"All that I know is that microalgae has never been a problem since starting the iron, and I’ve not noticed anything negative that I could attribute to the iron (nor have I heard of any from others doing similar dosing). Still, I don’t keep all organisms available to the hobby, and if you do seem to get a negative reaction from something, I’d advise backing off on the dose or stopping completely." - http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/aug2002/chem.htm


Another good article can be found here: - http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/oct2002/chem.htm

[Seehag]

How about those little pot's full of like moss stuff that some aquatic plants come in from the lfs. Could you put them in the sand. When I had a fresh water tank I had gravel as the filter bed medium I would put the plants in the pots and bury in the gravel the roots would come out and run around in the gravel.

As far as searching I just signed up so now I am officially a premium member.

I will keep looing into what to do with my fuge and figure this out soon. My son wants to put Sea horses in the fuge don't know if I can do that..

Art

[PatMayo]

Originally posted by DrBegalke
Randy doses iron on his own system...

I've never seen an article from Randy were he stated that iron affected one certain macroalgae....

As far as 'possible negative,' here's what Randy said:

"All that I know is that microalgae has never been a problem since starting the iron, and I�ve not noticed anything negative that I could attribute to the iron (nor have I heard of any from others doing similar dosing). Still, I don�t keep all organisms available to the hobby, and if you do seem to get a negative reaction from something, I�d advise backing off on the dose or stopping completely." - http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/aug2002/chem.htm


Another good article can be found here: - http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/oct2002/chem.htm

Randy told me this in a thread that he was answering to a question that I posed. I could fine the thread but I don't think it really matters.

Regards,

Pat

[bertoni]

The pots might work well enough for sea grasses and mangroves. I don't really know.

[jpitch]

I've used MM for the past 5 months and I have no proof whatsoever of the benefits or negative impacts on my system. However, I believe that the addition of MM has improved my conditions in a few ways:

1) My macros SEEM to have grown quicker
2) All of my corals have SEEM to have better polyp extension
3) My water quality has been stable since the addition

When I first added MM, I was about 11 months from startup. It took a while before my tank stabilized but I could never keep everything in balance. Since the addition of MM I have not had any problems with stability. I haven't changed any maintenance habits. I'm not going to tell you MM has conclusively helped my tank because I have no proof. However, given all that has and has not happened I would do it again. HTH and good luck!

[TrueblueNY]

i bought some for my fuge. i mixed it in with sand, aragonite, rubble, ,etc., honestly i couldnt tell what, if any difference it makes. if it is helping i dont know. the fuge would probably do just as well just with oolite. my suggestion on the fuge - at least 6 inches.