I've had it with sumps PART DUEX

woogy · 04/05/2007, 07:20 PM

I know, I know more questions about sumps. Ok there are many more questions I have.

1. When returning the water to the tank does your gph from the pump have to match the the gph the overflow box creates? So my tank doesn't overflow from too much pushing up!?!?

2. If my pump doesn't push back the water back up to the tank fast enough, would this cause my sump to flood?

3. I was thinking of getting a mag5 pump for the return. It seems a lot of people on here use the mag pumps, but I did read it is lost more costly on the electric bill. It says is pushes 500gph, but at 4 feet, its about 310. Would this be a good choice?

4. The overflow box, which i am considering getting a CPR CS50 (good choice?) which states for use up to 60gallons and drains 300gph.

I know some people here may think I am a PITA, but I did learn alot from the first thread about the sumps I posted.

marduc · 04/05/2007, 07:35 PM

1) your overflow needs to be able to handle a greater flow rate than your return pump pushes.

2) your sump will not flood since the overflow will not be any greater than the amount of water being pushed up from it.

3) what size tank? and for heating, electrical, ease of use, and efficiency concerns it would probably best to go with an external pump for this.

4) see answer #1

kmf507 · 04/05/2007, 07:37 PM

2) Your sump will not flood from your pump returning the water too slowly. Quite simply, your tank water level should drain below the overflow intake before your sump overflows.

In other words, as your tank fills the overflow, it will stop "overflowing" if your pump is not pumping the water back into the tank. So, by having a pump that is too weak, you will really slow down the water movement through the sump.

AZDesertRat · 04/05/2007, 07:39 PM

1. The overflow should always be rated higher than the return pump. The pump and overflow will balance out as long as the overflow can keep up with the pump but not the other way around.
2. No. The overflow as stated in #1 will balance itself out. As long as your overflow box is set at the correct level and you do not keep your sump filled to the brim you are safe. The overflow will match the pumps output.
3. Mags are popular because they have been around forever but they are not the best choice by far. You would be much better off with an OceanRunner 2500 or a small Eheim, both are worlds better as far as energy consumption, heat generation and being able to handle the lift. I seriuosly doubt a Mag 5 will pump 300+ gallons at 4 feet. I have one in my closet I will test it soon as part of my pump evaluation project and post the results. OR and Eheim both are pretty true to what they advertise from my testing so far.
4. What size tank are you building? Thats a pretty small overflow at only 300 GPH.

scengineer · 04/05/2007, 07:48 PM

You can see a published chart for Mag pumps on flow rate vs. head here:

http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_...me.asp?CartId=

A Mag 5 at 4' of head is listed at 310gph. Take it with a grain of salt though - thats probably under optimal conditions.

woogy · 04/05/2007, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AZDesertRat
1. The overflow should always be rated higher than the return pump. The pump and overflow will balance out as long as the overflow can keep up with the pump but not the other way around.

OK. So if the overflow box is states it drains at 300gph, EXACTLY what gph pump should I use? From the bottom of the stand to the lip of the tank is 46"

3. Mags are popular because they have been around forever but they are not the best choice by far. You would be much better off with an OceanRunner 2500 or a small Eheim, both are worlds better as far as energy consumption, heat generation and being able to handle the lift. I seriuosly doubt a Mag 5 will pump 300+ gallons at 4 feet. I have one in my closet I will test it soon as part of my pump evaluation project and post the results. OR and Eheim both are pretty true to what they advertise from my testing so far.

I was just quoting from the drs website, which stated they push 310gph at 4'.

4. What size tank are you building? Thats a pretty small overflow at only 300 GPH.

29gallon already running

smacdone · 04/05/2007, 08:34 PM

if u hate sumps why not just get a hang on skimmer? Seems like it would work fine for a 29 gallon

woogy · 04/05/2007, 08:56 PM

NOOOOOOOOOO. I know the thread states I've had it with sumps, but you may have missed the first thread i posted about sumps. I already have a HOB skimmer, but I hate the appearance of it hanging on tank. Also I want to add macroalgae, dsb or mud (not sure what to use yet) and put my heater in the sump, plus increase my total water volume.

JOSEPHLB · 04/06/2007, 08:28 AM

Then, why do you say you've had it with sumps?

You can implement one and still keep it simple.

Don't go with those CPR overflows. Go with a U-tube design.

Lifereef has one, if you have a loaded wallet.
Hurricane Filters has a couple of models if your wallet is a little on the light side

I have the Quietflo 600 from Hurricane Filters. Been running it for about a week. Yeah.. I know I can't speak much from long term experience, but its working great. No air bubbles in the U-tube.. nothing but pure water flowing through it. Once you have a good siphon going, it just plain, flat out works. Gotta love physics.

I have my HOB skimmer on my sump as well. When I first started researching, I was afraid of the sump concept also, and purchased a HOB skimmer, with the intentions of not running a sump. Further along in time, I changed my mind and decided to setup a sump. The HOB skimmer I purchased still works just fine on my sump.

04/05/2007, 07:48 PM	#5
scengineer Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: south carolina Posts: 32	You can see a published chart for Mag pumps on flow rate vs. head here: http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_...me.asp?CartId= A Mag 5 at 4' of head is listed at 310gph. Take it with a grain of salt though - thats probably under optimal conditions. __________________ Thanks Ed Current Tank Info: 90G beginner reef

04/05/2007, 07:20 PM	#1
woogy Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Western PA Posts: 986	I've had it with sumps PART DUEX I know, I know more questions about sumps. Ok there are many more questions I have. 1. When returning the water to the tank does your gph from the pump have to match the the gph the overflow box creates? So my tank doesn't overflow from too much pushing up!?!? 2. If my pump doesn't push back the water back up to the tank fast enough, would this cause my sump to flood? 3. I was thinking of getting a mag5 pump for the return. It seems a lot of people on here use the mag pumps, but I did read it is lost more costly on the electric bill. It says is pushes 500gph, but at 4 feet, its about 310. Would this be a good choice? 4. The overflow box, which i am considering getting a CPR CS50 (good choice?) which states for use up to 60gallons and drains 300gph. I know some people here may think I am a PITA, but I did learn alot from the first thread about the sumps I posted.

04/05/2007, 07:35 PM	#2
marduc Registered Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tampa, Fl. Posts: 780	1) your overflow needs to be able to handle a greater flow rate than your return pump pushes. 2) your sump will not flood since the overflow will not be any greater than the amount of water being pushed up from it. 3) what size tank? and for heating, electrical, ease of use, and efficiency concerns it would probably best to go with an external pump for this. 4) see answer #1

04/05/2007, 07:37 PM	#3
kmf507 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 669	2) Your sump will not flood from your pump returning the water too slowly. Quite simply, your tank water level should drain below the overflow intake before your sump overflows. In other words, as your tank fills the overflow, it will stop "overflowing" if your pump is not pumping the water back into the tank. So, by having a pump that is too weak, you will really slow down the water movement through the sump.

04/05/2007, 07:39 PM	#4
AZDesertRat Moved On Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: NW Phoenix Posts: 16,621	1. The overflow should always be rated higher than the return pump. The pump and overflow will balance out as long as the overflow can keep up with the pump but not the other way around. 2. No. The overflow as stated in #1 will balance itself out. As long as your overflow box is set at the correct level and you do not keep your sump filled to the brim you are safe. The overflow will match the pumps output. 3. Mags are popular because they have been around forever but they are not the best choice by far. You would be much better off with an OceanRunner 2500 or a small Eheim, both are worlds better as far as energy consumption, heat generation and being able to handle the lift. I seriuosly doubt a Mag 5 will pump 300+ gallons at 4 feet. I have one in my closet I will test it soon as part of my pump evaluation project and post the results. OR and Eheim both are pretty true to what they advertise from my testing so far. 4. What size tank are you building? Thats a pretty small overflow at only 300 GPH.

04/05/2007, 08:34 PM	#7
smacdone Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Santa Barbara Posts: 129	if u hate sumps why not just get a hang on skimmer? Seems like it would work fine for a 29 gallon

04/05/2007, 08:56 PM	#8
woogy Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Western PA Posts: 986	NOOOOOOOOOO. I know the thread states I've had it with sumps, but you may have missed the first thread i posted about sumps. I already have a HOB skimmer, but I hate the appearance of it hanging on tank. Also I want to add macroalgae, dsb or mud (not sure what to use yet) and put my heater in the sump, plus increase my total water volume.

04/06/2007, 08:28 AM	#9
JOSEPHLB Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Spring Grove, PA Posts: 287	Then, why do you say you've had it with sumps? You can implement one and still keep it simple. Don't go with those CPR overflows. Go with a U-tube design. Lifereef has one, if you have a loaded wallet. Hurricane Filters has a couple of models if your wallet is a little on the light side I have the Quietflo 600 from Hurricane Filters. Been running it for about a week. Yeah.. I know I can't speak much from long term experience, but its working great. No air bubbles in the U-tube.. nothing but pure water flowing through it. Once you have a good siphon going, it just plain, flat out works. Gotta love physics. I have my HOB skimmer on my sump as well. When I first started researching, I was afraid of the sump concept also, and purchased a HOB skimmer, with the intentions of not running a sump. Further along in time, I changed my mind and decided to setup a sump. The HOB skimmer I purchased still works just fine on my sump.