What does bubble king do that others dont

heyfredyourhat · 04/07/2007, 12:35 PM

I am set in my ways on buying an H&S skimmer. But i cant keep thinking about a BK and why they are so freaking expensive. Why is that? What are they doing that makes them so much better(I would think they are better because of the price). And why do they look so complicated? I saw one, i forget which model, but it had like pipes and lines going everywhere!

jkapit · 04/07/2007, 06:31 PM

I have a BK300 EXT.

I've only owned two skimmers so I can't compare them to anything other than an ETSS800. It out performs the ETSS800 by 75 to 100% week over week(I actually run both at the same time). Also, the Iwaki pump which drives the ETSS add 10 degrees farenheit into the water, where the BK uses around 65 watts and is fed by one of my overflow tubes.

I think the reason they are so expensive is because they use high quality parts and the workmanship is extremely good, also imported which adds to the price.

As far as performance goes, I believe they perform extrememly well, they are very easy to tune, and require no adjustments for months. The biggest advantage of a BK is the silent operation. You cannot hear the motor. You only hear a wisper of air being drawn in to the silencer.

I'm sure you can get similar performance for less money, not sure if you can get the silent operation though.

hahnmeister · 04/07/2007, 07:12 PM

Why so expensive? Well, 20" cast acrylic pipe isnt cheap. Add to that the exclusive Red Dragon Needlewheel pumps... high air output, low wattage, long life, low noise. Many of the pieces of the skimmer are custom as well... like the threads that connect the main body to the collection cup... they are CNC'ed right at Royal-Exclusiv. Also, there is some $$$ you pay for it just being the Ferrari of skimmers... the bubble plate design to lower turbulence, etc. There was some serious engineering done to develop these skimmers.

At that, I do agree that the prices are a bit high still. If they were 1/2 to 2/3 the current price, they would sell alot more.

Jar*Head · 04/07/2007, 07:56 PM

I have run several skimmer in the past couple years. My first protein skimmer was the Euro Reef 6-2+ with Sedra 5000. It work very well @ 50w but only rated for 100g. My second protein skimmer is the MR3 Dual becket injector with the power hog pump MD70 RLT. The pump ran very very very hot and suck a tons of electricity (296w). The becket injector skimmer working very well and produce lots of skimmate but not energy efficient. my next protein skimmer is the DIY skimmer body with 2 H&S eheim pum. The protein working very very very well but im still curious about the BK so.....My last protein skimmer is the BK400ext

14" reaction chamber, 31" tall, 1/4" thickness with RDBK 2500 NW pump @78w. If you look at the protein skimmer without the pump running or full chamber of micro bubble. You can tell whoever built this badboy has done a damn good job.

Here is pix of my DIY with H&S pumps

poppin_fresh · 04/07/2007, 08:20 PM

I have an H & S and I love it. Its very well built and pulls tons of stuff. I dont see how spending 4x more will result in 4x more performance.

Then again I thought my G2 was a bad azz skimmer untill I got the H & S.

bergzy · 04/07/2007, 08:27 PM

i dont know what happened but i cant seem to get on zeovit's forum this past week...

but...

the users there are heavy bk users and most praise them as being great skimmers IF you do not look at how much they cost.

on a more 'observational' note...there were a inordinate of problems with people who bought their bk's. it almost always stemmed from the red dragon pumps they used. broken shafts, broken needles, seized magnets etc.

i am guessing that this may happen with other nw skimmers but...i havent heard of the high numbers like deltec, h&s and er's...

i will tell that if i am dropping $3k on a skimmer it better be able to skim out my fillings...and i want ZERO problems with it...

while build construction quality is nice and all and it 'may' be an indicator for longevity...i am more than happy to save $2k of a skimmer that doesnt look as good but skims just as well (if not better)...after all, i am looking at and admiring my display...not my equipment.

gasman059 · 04/07/2007, 08:32 PM

Quote:

It out performs the ETSS800 by 75 to 100% week over week(I actually run both at the same time). Also, the Iwaki pump which drives the ETSS add 10 degrees farenheit into the water, where the BK uses around 65 watts and is fed by one of my overflow tubes.

thats a statement!-there's not such a thing regarding performance.
High end skimmers are pretty much equivalent, in terms of performance. i've seen BK and yes they are great pieces of equipment-But def not 100% better than dd's or other quality nw's

Jar*Head · 04/07/2007, 08:45 PM

Ok, that's it. My BK is up for sale. Anyone

delv · 04/07/2007, 09:19 PM

Well, it uses a Hagen Laguna pond pump modified...that's different.

d.

luke33 · 04/07/2007, 09:38 PM

They charge 2-6k for a skimmer.....thats different! lol (rip off) Sure there nice but geeeeeeeez, a cheaper car price? No thanks!

E-A-G-L-E-S · 04/07/2007, 09:48 PM

Do i spy 2x Eheim's on the second to last pic.??

Jar*Head · 04/07/2007, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by E-A-G-L-E-S
Do i spy 2x Eheim's on the second to last pic.??

Yes sir, that is the H&S eheim 1260.

reefkoi · 04/08/2007, 09:02 AM

I had a ASM G-6 on my tank for a little over a year, the tank looked ok, I tried to limit my feedings and I did lots of water changes, but I could not get rid of the annoying brown cast on the sand, and I wanted anthias and wanted to feed 3-4x's per day for them.
I bought a 400int in January 07 and within a month or 2 the brown cast to the sand went away, its white as possible now, and i feed everytime I am around the tank which sometimes is 4-5 times a day. I can't say if more skimmate is coming out, but the tank is doing better than ever and I am feeding more than ever, so there must be something good about it.
I cried when I clicked the "buy it now" button but the pain went away and I am pleased with it now.
Chris

Jar*Head · 04/08/2007, 09:58 AM

Christ, i got the pump back from Captive Ocean. He replace my RDBK2000 with RDBK2500, the protein skimmer performance does improved. My dwyer air flow meter coming in next week. I will let you know how much air im pulling. BTW, how high did you set your riser tube? If you lower it a bit, you will notice a different as well. If possible, can you post some pic?

dudedudedude · 04/08/2007, 10:28 AM

REEFER714,
I am making a DIY skimmer, could you post some more info on yours as it seems to be the size that I am going for.

reefkoi · 04/08/2007, 10:30 AM

my riser tube is pretty high, my dwyer meter showed around 32-33 lpm.
I'm happy with th way it looks now. It is mounted in my sump so pics are really useless, here is one so you can see, its cramped in there

jkapit · 04/08/2007, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gasman059
thats a statement!-there's not such a thing regarding performance.
High end skimmers are pretty much equivalent, in terms of performance. i've seen BK and yes they are great pieces of equipment-But def not 100% better than dd's or other quality nw's

I'm just providing some real world experience. I have owned the ETSS800 for three years and really know how to tune it. I have had both skimmers running on my tank for a good six months now and measure the amount of skimmate from each. The ETSS ranges from 3.5-5 cups per week. I normally have to adjust the air intake on wednesday since it's production slows down due to the riser getting a little dirty. The BK does not require any adjustment and pulls 7-8 cups per week.

Considering the body of the BK is 2-3 times the volume of the ETSS it should not be suprising that it outskims it. Maybe larger/tallers DD or beckett could equal or outperform the BK.

What is for sure, is that the DD uses much more electicity so if I had to pick either a large NW like a Deltec,H&S, or BK or a DD, or Beckett I'd go with a large NW and feed it directly from the overflow.

michaeldaly · 04/08/2007, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by REEFER714
I have run several skimmer in the past couple years. My first protein skimmer was the Euro Reef 6-2+ with Sedra 5000. It work very well @ 50w but only rated for 100g. My second protein skimmer is the MR3 Dual becket injector with the power hog pump MD70 RLT. The pump ran very very very hot and suck a tons of electricity (296w). The becket injector skimmer working very well and produce lots of skimmate but not energy efficient. my next protein skimmer is the DIY skimmer body with 2 H&S eheim pum. The protein working very very very well but im still curious about the BK so.....My last protein skimmer is the BK400ext

14" reaction chamber, 31" tall, 1/4" thickness with RDBK 2500 NW pump @78w. If you look at the protein skimmer without the pump running or full chamber of micro bubble. You can tell whoever built this badboy has done a damn good job.

Here is pix of my DIY with H&S pumps

Thats a sweet skimmer, have you got a thread on how you built it?

04/07/2007, 12:35 PM	#1
heyfredyourhat Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: BC Canada Posts: 963	What does bubble king do that others dont I am set in my ways on buying an H&S skimmer. But i cant keep thinking about a BK and why they are so freaking expensive. Why is that? What are they doing that makes them so much better(I would think they are better because of the price). And why do they look so complicated? I saw one, i forget which model, but it had like pipes and lines going everywhere!

04/07/2007, 07:56 PM	#4
Jar*Head Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 8,630	I have run several skimmer in the past couple years. My first protein skimmer was the Euro Reef 6-2+ with Sedra 5000. It work very well @ 50w but only rated for 100g. My second protein skimmer is the MR3 Dual becket injector with the power hog pump MD70 RLT. The pump ran very very very hot and suck a tons of electricity (296w). The becket injector skimmer working very well and produce lots of skimmate but not energy efficient. my next protein skimmer is the DIY skimmer body with 2 H&S eheim pum. The protein working very very very well but im still curious about the BK so.....My last protein skimmer is the BK400ext 14" reaction chamber, 31" tall, 1/4" thickness with RDBK 2500 NW pump @78w. If you look at the protein skimmer without the pump running or full chamber of micro bubble. You can tell whoever built this badboy has done a damn good job. Here is pix of my DIY with H&S pumps __________________ Steve Tankless. Current Tank Info: 480g peninsula

04/07/2007, 08:20 PM	#5
poppin_fresh Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Vermont Posts: 1,982	I have an H & S and I love it. Its very well built and pulls tons of stuff. I dont see how spending 4x more will result in 4x more performance. Then again I thought my G2 was a bad azz skimmer untill I got the H & S. __________________ PBITAWA! Current Tank Info: None now. Past- 180g w/ 100g basement sump and 20g 'fuge. H & S skimmer, T'5s & Tunze

04/07/2007, 08:27 PM	#6
bergzy Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: OC CA USA Posts: 5,299	i dont know what happened but i cant seem to get on zeovit's forum this past week... but... the users there are heavy bk users and most praise them as being great skimmers IF you do not look at how much they cost. on a more 'observational' note...there were a inordinate of problems with people who bought their bk's. it almost always stemmed from the red dragon pumps they used. broken shafts, broken needles, seized magnets etc. i am guessing that this may happen with other nw skimmers but...i havent heard of the high numbers like deltec, h&s and er's... i will tell that if i am dropping $3k on a skimmer it better be able to skim out my fillings...and i want ZERO problems with it... while build construction quality is nice and all and it 'may' be an indicator for longevity...i am more than happy to save $2k of a skimmer that doesnt look as good but skims just as well (if not better)...after all, i am looking at and admiring my display...not my equipment. __________________ The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule it. H.L. Mencken Ben. Current Tank Info: 180g sps, 90g cube clam biotope.

04/07/2007, 08:45 PM	#8
Jar*Head Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 8,630	Ok, that's it. My BK is up for sale. Anyone __________________ Steve Tankless. Current Tank Info: 480g peninsula

04/07/2007, 06:31 PM	#2
jkapit Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Central, NJ Posts: 333	I have a BK300 EXT. I've only owned two skimmers so I can't compare them to anything other than an ETSS800. It out performs the ETSS800 by 75 to 100% week over week(I actually run both at the same time). Also, the Iwaki pump which drives the ETSS add 10 degrees farenheit into the water, where the BK uses around 65 watts and is fed by one of my overflow tubes. I think the reason they are so expensive is because they use high quality parts and the workmanship is extremely good, also imported which adds to the price. As far as performance goes, I believe they perform extrememly well, they are very easy to tune, and require no adjustments for months. The biggest advantage of a BK is the silent operation. You cannot hear the motor. You only hear a wisper of air being drawn in to the silencer. I'm sure you can get similar performance for less money, not sure if you can get the silent operation though.

04/07/2007, 07:12 PM	#3
hahnmeister Moved On Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Brew City, WI Posts: 10,156	Why so expensive? Well, 20" cast acrylic pipe isnt cheap. Add to that the exclusive Red Dragon Needlewheel pumps... high air output, low wattage, long life, low noise. Many of the pieces of the skimmer are custom as well... like the threads that connect the main body to the collection cup... they are CNC'ed right at Royal-Exclusiv. Also, there is some $$$ you pay for it just being the Ferrari of skimmers... the bubble plate design to lower turbulence, etc. There was some serious engineering done to develop these skimmers. At that, I do agree that the prices are a bit high still. If they were 1/2 to 2/3 the current price, they would sell alot more.

04/07/2007, 09:19 PM	#9
delv Moved On Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: The BK, NYC Posts: 1,048	Well, it uses a Hagen Laguna pond pump modified...that's different. d.

04/07/2007, 09:38 PM	#10
luke33 Moved On Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Indiana Posts: 8,375	They charge 2-6k for a skimmer.....thats different! lol (rip off) Sure there nice but geeeeeeeez, a cheaper car price? No thanks!

04/07/2007, 09:48 PM	#11
E-A-G-L-E-S Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Lehigh Valley, PA Posts: 7,038	Do i spy 2x Eheim's on the second to last pic.?? __________________ Smug Egotistical Contemptuous It's difficult to get a man to understand something that his salary requires him not to.

04/08/2007, 09:02 AM	#13
reefkoi Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Colorado Posts: 3,983	I had a ASM G-6 on my tank for a little over a year, the tank looked ok, I tried to limit my feedings and I did lots of water changes, but I could not get rid of the annoying brown cast on the sand, and I wanted anthias and wanted to feed 3-4x's per day for them. I bought a 400int in January 07 and within a month or 2 the brown cast to the sand went away, its white as possible now, and i feed everytime I am around the tank which sometimes is 4-5 times a day. I can't say if more skimmate is coming out, but the tank is doing better than ever and I am feeding more than ever, so there must be something good about it. I cried when I clicked the "buy it now" button but the pain went away and I am pleased with it now. Chris __________________ 1Kw bulb club Current Tank Info: A 600gal. on Zeovit & a 240gal.

04/08/2007, 09:58 AM	#14
Jar*Head Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 8,630	Christ, i got the pump back from Captive Ocean. He replace my RDBK2000 with RDBK2500, the protein skimmer performance does improved. My dwyer air flow meter coming in next week. I will let you know how much air im pulling. BTW, how high did you set your riser tube? If you lower it a bit, you will notice a different as well. If possible, can you post some pic? __________________ Steve Tankless. Current Tank Info: 480g peninsula

04/08/2007, 10:28 AM	#15
dudedudedude Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Virginia Posts: 179	REEFER714, I am making a DIY skimmer, could you post some more info on yours as it seems to be the size that I am going for.

04/08/2007, 10:30 AM	#16
reefkoi Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Colorado Posts: 3,983	my riser tube is pretty high, my dwyer meter showed around 32-33 lpm. I'm happy with th way it looks now. It is mounted in my sump so pics are really useless, here is one so you can see, its cramped in there __________________ 1Kw bulb club Current Tank Info: A 600gal. on Zeovit & a 240gal.