another DSB question

bilge rat · 04/09/2007, 07:33 AM

I am reading the 40+ page posts on DSB...very informative!
i am planning on setting up a DSB dk and lt
I dont have an overflow and wont be drilling for one either,
so this only leaves the dreaded siphon...i have never ever been able to match the flow from the return pump with the sipon..and knowing that the siphon could fail at any time makes me nervous anyway..
-in order to keep the sand moving in the dark/bucket DSB wont you
need critters in there to keep it moving?
-can anything that stirs the sand live in the darkness of the bucket?
-is there a pump/brand that is so sensitive in terms of flow adjustment
that it is recomended for this type of app?
-other then drilling for an overflow or siphon is there another option for
to and fro flow for a DSB?
thanks
joshuah

Henry Bowman · 04/09/2007, 08:23 AM

You dont want the sand to move around, just water to run across the top of it. The moving water keeps the top of the sand column oxygenated. The DSB in a bucket is a nitrate reduction tool and the sand should not be disturbed (no critters in it). It works by the sand being left still so the lower areas "work" in a depleted oxygen environment. Putting any type of sifter or cleaner in it would defeat the purpose.

You can use a siphon successfully you just have to get one that is big enough for the pump. Most siphons are listed with a gph rating. A siphon will only move or suck the amonut of water that is fed to it. Most of tem come with an overflow set up that keeps the tank level from fluctuating if the power goes out.

HTH

bilge rat · 04/09/2007, 02:26 PM

if a dark DSB with no sand sifters removes nitrates...
what does a lighted DSB with critters remove?

Henry Bowman · 04/09/2007, 02:38 PM

The lighted DSB preferrably in the tank supports a great deal of microfauna that can be very beneficial to the tank, however it is difficult to keep nutrients real low like a lot of hobbyists are doing these days. I have a dsb under the tank in the sump that is 8" deep with no light and water moving over it quickly keeping detritus from settling on the sand. My nitrates are 0. The tank istself is bare bottom with a ton of current in it. It is and SPS dominant tank.

andrewsmart · 04/09/2007, 04:22 PM

ok i have a question i have an external canister filter i run with just carbon in it not much else.

it is a big filter and i just run it because i have it.

could i set up a DSB in this to reduce my nitrates.

how deep do i have to go.

must be 12-15 inces deep the canister that is.

Henry Bowman · 04/09/2007, 08:22 PM

Andrew,

The canister is a good choice to run carbon in. However, a DSB requires that water only run over the top of the sand so that the lower layers of sand become anerobic (lower in O2) and your canister pushes water through the material inside, making it a great choice for carbon and a poor choice for a sand bed. In addition you want more sand like a 5 gl bucket...

Hope that helps.

chris wright · 04/09/2007, 11:58 PM

And dont forget your canister out regularly. I have one on my tank as well, no sump, I have carbon and phosex in it and a filter to trap crap getting back into the tank. I clean mine weekly.

A properly mainted dsb in the display tank will reduce nitrates. I have a dsb in my tank, it needs good flow and the occasional gravel vaccum, your biggest decision will be the asthetics of the dsb. Set up a remote dsb if you dont like the look and as Henry said dont attempt in the canister, its more likely to cause problems, the buggers can leak.

Hope this helps and good luck.

andrewsmart · 04/10/2007, 09:15 AM

cheers guys i also though about just filling it with live rock rubble and using it as a poor mans fuge.

think that would work but not to well.

can someone explaing the 5 gal bucket thing to me i have one of those.

so i want an overflow obiously into it and what just a return pump.

how would i stop it from flooding my floor or running dry for that matter.

Henry Bowman · 04/10/2007, 12:16 PM

Andrew,

The 5 gallon bucket thing is is where you'd put sand in a bucket to about 5" from the top and flow water from the tank over the top of the sand. The way it'd work is by using an overflow from the tank and a pump from the bucket back to the tank. The overflow will drain only what the pump pushes back into the tank therefore it wont flood.... well.... It wont flood (IF IT IS THE ONLY OVERFLOW ON THE TANK). Look at this thread (it's long) to review the process and benefits, there are also some plumbing ideas.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...SB+in+a+bucket

Also Andrew, filling a canister with Live Rock will just become a bio filter and require cleaning whereas you have live rock in your tank already doing that. I'd use it for carbon and phoshpate removing material or not at all.

FWIW

04/09/2007, 07:33 AM	#1
bilge rat Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Golden, Colorado Posts: 142	another DSB question I am reading the 40+ page posts on DSB...very informative! i am planning on setting up a DSB dk and lt I dont have an overflow and wont be drilling for one either, so this only leaves the dreaded siphon...i have never ever been able to match the flow from the return pump with the sipon..and knowing that the siphon could fail at any time makes me nervous anyway.. -in order to keep the sand moving in the dark/bucket DSB wont you need critters in there to keep it moving? -can anything that stirs the sand live in the darkness of the bucket? -is there a pump/brand that is so sensitive in terms of flow adjustment that it is recomended for this type of app? -other then drilling for an overflow or siphon is there another option for to and fro flow for a DSB? thanks joshuah __________________ my priorities have changed... priority #1. everything else can wait priority #2. see priority #1 reef madness...its very contagious Current Tank Info: 34g sw

04/09/2007, 08:23 AM	#2
Henry Bowman Reefing since '87 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Allegheny Mountains of VA Posts: 2,162	You dont want the sand to move around, just water to run across the top of it. The moving water keeps the top of the sand column oxygenated. The DSB in a bucket is a nitrate reduction tool and the sand should not be disturbed (no critters in it). It works by the sand being left still so the lower areas "work" in a depleted oxygen environment. Putting any type of sifter or cleaner in it would defeat the purpose. You can use a siphon successfully you just have to get one that is big enough for the pump. Most siphons are listed with a gph rating. A siphon will only move or suck the amonut of water that is fed to it. Most of tem come with an overflow set up that keeps the tank level from fluctuating if the power goes out. HTH __________________ Have a good'un Current Tank Info: 90 gl SPS dominant / upgrade in the works

04/09/2007, 02:26 PM	#3
bilge rat Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Golden, Colorado Posts: 142	if a dark DSB with no sand sifters removes nitrates... what does a lighted DSB with critters remove? __________________ my priorities have changed... priority #1. everything else can wait priority #2. see priority #1 reef madness...its very contagious Current Tank Info: 34g sw

04/09/2007, 02:38 PM	#4
Henry Bowman Reefing since '87 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Allegheny Mountains of VA Posts: 2,162	The lighted DSB preferrably in the tank supports a great deal of microfauna that can be very beneficial to the tank, however it is difficult to keep nutrients real low like a lot of hobbyists are doing these days. I have a dsb under the tank in the sump that is 8" deep with no light and water moving over it quickly keeping detritus from settling on the sand. My nitrates are 0. The tank istself is bare bottom with a ton of current in it. It is and SPS dominant tank. __________________ Have a good'un Current Tank Info: 90 gl SPS dominant / upgrade in the works

04/09/2007, 04:22 PM	#5
andrewsmart Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: glasgow, scotland Posts: 369	ok i have a question i have an external canister filter i run with just carbon in it not much else. it is a big filter and i just run it because i have it. could i set up a DSB in this to reduce my nitrates. how deep do i have to go. must be 12-15 inces deep the canister that is. __________________ I remember my prom. my girlfriend wore a metallic purple, black lace, beaded number that was straples she was a Purple Beast. I was terrified her D-sized boobies were going to pop out and attack me. Current Tank Info: FOWLR

04/09/2007, 08:22 PM	#6
Henry Bowman Reefing since '87 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Allegheny Mountains of VA Posts: 2,162	Andrew, The canister is a good choice to run carbon in. However, a DSB requires that water only run over the top of the sand so that the lower layers of sand become anerobic (lower in O2) and your canister pushes water through the material inside, making it a great choice for carbon and a poor choice for a sand bed. In addition you want more sand like a 5 gl bucket... Hope that helps. __________________ Have a good'un Current Tank Info: 90 gl SPS dominant / upgrade in the works

04/09/2007, 11:58 PM	#7
chris wright Moved On Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Orange Australia Posts: 835	And dont forget your canister out regularly. I have one on my tank as well, no sump, I have carbon and phosex in it and a filter to trap crap getting back into the tank. I clean mine weekly. A properly mainted dsb in the display tank will reduce nitrates. I have a dsb in my tank, it needs good flow and the occasional gravel vaccum, your biggest decision will be the asthetics of the dsb. Set up a remote dsb if you dont like the look and as Henry said dont attempt in the canister, its more likely to cause problems, the buggers can leak. Hope this helps and good luck.

04/10/2007, 09:15 AM	#8
andrewsmart Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: glasgow, scotland Posts: 369	cheers guys i also though about just filling it with live rock rubble and using it as a poor mans fuge. think that would work but not to well. can someone explaing the 5 gal bucket thing to me i have one of those. so i want an overflow obiously into it and what just a return pump. how would i stop it from flooding my floor or running dry for that matter. __________________ I remember my prom. my girlfriend wore a metallic purple, black lace, beaded number that was straples she was a Purple Beast. I was terrified her D-sized boobies were going to pop out and attack me. Current Tank Info: FOWLR

04/10/2007, 12:16 PM	#9
Henry Bowman Reefing since '87 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Allegheny Mountains of VA Posts: 2,162	Andrew, The 5 gallon bucket thing is is where you'd put sand in a bucket to about 5" from the top and flow water from the tank over the top of the sand. The way it'd work is by using an overflow from the tank and a pump from the bucket back to the tank. The overflow will drain only what the pump pushes back into the tank therefore it wont flood.... well.... It wont flood (IF IT IS THE ONLY OVERFLOW ON THE TANK). Look at this thread (it's long) to review the process and benefits, there are also some plumbing ideas. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...SB+in+a+bucket Also Andrew, filling a canister with Live Rock will just become a bio filter and require cleaning whereas you have live rock in your tank already doing that. I'd use it for carbon and phoshpate removing material or not at all. FWIW __________________ Have a good'un Current Tank Info: 90 gl SPS dominant / upgrade in the works