sump questions again

ilovetrains · 05/02/2007, 10:15 AM

We have a all-glass 155 bow front with corner overflows. It came with two tide-pool bio-wheel sumps. I removed the bio-wheels, but have been using the tide pool sumps. The pump appears to be an industrial pump, probably purchased from a farm supply or other store. It does not a GPH rating, but I would say it flows 4-6 times more than my aqau-clear 70 power head. Maybe more.

I have two issues, so to speak. With the pump going, it will suck the sumps dry. If I add water to the sumps, and the power goes out, I will have a huge mess. Is the pump too powerful, or do I need a larger sump?

Second, the water inputs are the flexible black type, with a jet on the end. I have one pointing downward at a 20 degree angle (measured from horizon, not vertical). When doing a water change the other day, it appeared this jet worked like a siphon, and was pulling water from the display to the sump. Can I install (if I can find one) a check valve?

Village Idiot · 05/02/2007, 10:36 AM

Your return pump is too powerful...attach a ball valve in the return line to control the flow. Or, you can T off the return line to pump water back into your sump to control flow. I had to do both on my setup.

Make sure your returns in the tank are just below the water line. This minimizes how much water is siphoned back in a power outage. Your sump must be large enough to handle this volume. This website has a calculator to tell you how much volume you'll overflow into your sump.

reefkrazy · 05/02/2007, 10:53 AM

here is a pic to give you an idea.

I used a t then put a ball valve so I could controll the amount of water flowing up into the return by flowing water back into the sump. If you plump it this way your pump can run full bore without burning out. At the time I was sucking water out really fast in my sump. With the t and the valve I can let some water pass back into the sump limiting the anount of water going up to my returns. As of now I went with 2 =1" 1/4 drains to feed the sump and my return is a mag 9.5 wide open with 3/4 pipe going to a swcd. From there it goes 3/4 tube to one side 3/4 locline and the other side 3/4 reduced to 1/2 double locline returns.
also make sure that you drill a hole just above or on the waterline on your return pipe or elbow? whatever your useing. this will be your siphon break. Hope this helps.

reefkrazy · 05/02/2007, 10:55 AM

here it is in the sump.

ilovetrains · 05/02/2007, 02:18 PM

Is there a recomended sump size for a given tank size?

I think I want a bigger sump, maybe a DIY.

ilovetrains · 05/03/2007, 02:43 PM

Is there any kind of rule of thumb in terms recommended sump size to display size? For example, sump should be 25% of volume.

Village Idiot · 05/04/2007, 06:39 AM

Don't know if there is a recommended size other than "as large as possible". I wanted and planned to use a 30 gallon tank as a sump, but after I measured I saw I'd only have 2-3 inches of clearance from the top of the sump to the bottom of the stand, so I've ended up with a 20 for a sump. I have an ATO so it works just fine as a place to put my equipment.

Ideally, a custom made sump would be the way to go, but I'm too cheap.

Frick-n-Frags · 05/04/2007, 06:44 AM

your pump is too powerful if you ovrflow the tank up top.

If it is a condition where the sump can't contain the water volume between running the pump dry and flooding after the system settles to drain-down level, that is totally a sump volume problem.

ilovetrains · 05/04/2007, 09:01 PM

so I think I need a larger sump. any suggestions on a custom made vs. ready made?

I need to be able to get it through one of the doors on the stand.

Southern Boy · 05/04/2007, 09:09 PM

Is there a chance you can brace the stand and remove the brace inbetween the doors? If that is you have 2 doors. I had to take a couple of 2 by 4's and brace the stand when I changed my wet-dry out to my 1st fuge.

05/02/2007, 10:15 AM	#1
ilovetrains Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Lee's Summit, MO Posts: 127	sump questions again We have a all-glass 155 bow front with corner overflows. It came with two tide-pool bio-wheel sumps. I removed the bio-wheels, but have been using the tide pool sumps. The pump appears to be an industrial pump, probably purchased from a farm supply or other store. It does not a GPH rating, but I would say it flows 4-6 times more than my aqau-clear 70 power head. Maybe more. I have two issues, so to speak. With the pump going, it will suck the sumps dry. If I add water to the sumps, and the power goes out, I will have a huge mess. Is the pump too powerful, or do I need a larger sump? Second, the water inputs are the flexible black type, with a jet on the end. I have one pointing downward at a 20 degree angle (measured from horizon, not vertical). When doing a water change the other day, it appeared this jet worked like a siphon, and was pulling water from the display to the sump. Can I install (if I can find one) a check valve? __________________ Your help to a newbie is much appreciated!! Current Tank Info: 155 gal bow front

05/02/2007, 10:53 AM	#3
reefkrazy Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: southington, CT Posts: 953	here is a pic to give you an idea. I used a t then put a ball valve so I could controll the amount of water flowing up into the return by flowing water back into the sump. If you plump it this way your pump can run full bore without burning out. At the time I was sucking water out really fast in my sump. With the t and the valve I can let some water pass back into the sump limiting the anount of water going up to my returns. As of now I went with 2 =1" 1/4 drains to feed the sump and my return is a mag 9.5 wide open with 3/4 pipe going to a swcd. From there it goes 3/4 tube to one side 3/4 locline and the other side 3/4 reduced to 1/2 double locline returns. also make sure that you drill a hole just above or on the waterline on your return pipe or elbow? whatever your useing. this will be your siphon break. Hope this helps. __________________ To reef or not to reef, That is the question! Current Tank Info: 90g display, 55g sump/ Refuge, 400w APO fixture with 20k radiums, 250w 10k hqi, 2-110w vho actinics, Euroreef skimmer, vortech pump, phosban reactor

05/02/2007, 10:55 AM	#4
reefkrazy Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: southington, CT Posts: 953	here it is in the sump. __________________ To reef or not to reef, That is the question! Current Tank Info: 90g display, 55g sump/ Refuge, 400w APO fixture with 20k radiums, 250w 10k hqi, 2-110w vho actinics, Euroreef skimmer, vortech pump, phosban reactor

05/02/2007, 02:18 PM	#5
ilovetrains Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Lee's Summit, MO Posts: 127	Is there a recomended sump size for a given tank size? I think I want a bigger sump, maybe a DIY. __________________ Your help to a newbie is much appreciated!! Current Tank Info: 155 gal bow front

05/03/2007, 02:43 PM	#6
ilovetrains Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Lee's Summit, MO Posts: 127	Is there any kind of rule of thumb in terms recommended sump size to display size? For example, sump should be 25% of volume. __________________ Your help to a newbie is much appreciated!! Current Tank Info: 155 gal bow front

05/02/2007, 10:36 AM	#2
Village Idiot Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Annapolis, MD Posts: 214	Your return pump is too powerful...attach a ball valve in the return line to control the flow. Or, you can T off the return line to pump water back into your sump to control flow. I had to do both on my setup. Make sure your returns in the tank are just below the water line. This minimizes how much water is siphoned back in a power outage. Your sump must be large enough to handle this volume. This website has a calculator to tell you how much volume you'll overflow into your sump.

05/04/2007, 06:39 AM	#7
Village Idiot Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Annapolis, MD Posts: 214	Don't know if there is a recommended size other than "as large as possible". I wanted and planned to use a 30 gallon tank as a sump, but after I measured I saw I'd only have 2-3 inches of clearance from the top of the sump to the bottom of the stand, so I've ended up with a 20 for a sump. I have an ATO so it works just fine as a place to put my equipment. Ideally, a custom made sump would be the way to go, but I'm too cheap.

05/04/2007, 06:44 AM	#8
Frick-n-Frags Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: north central OH Posts: 10,740	your pump is too powerful if you ovrflow the tank up top. If it is a condition where the sump can't contain the water volume between running the pump dry and flooding after the system settles to drain-down level, that is totally a sump volume problem. __________________ Only Dead fish swim with the current. Current Tank Info: 2 50 gal tanks, sump, still BB

05/04/2007, 09:01 PM	#9
ilovetrains Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Lee's Summit, MO Posts: 127	so I think I need a larger sump. any suggestions on a custom made vs. ready made? I need to be able to get it through one of the doors on the stand. __________________ Your help to a newbie is much appreciated!! Current Tank Info: 155 gal bow front

05/04/2007, 09:09 PM	#10
Southern Boy Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Fort pierce, Florida Posts: 671	Is there a chance you can brace the stand and remove the brace inbetween the doors? If that is you have 2 doors. I had to take a couple of 2 by 4's and brace the stand when I changed my wet-dry out to my 1st fuge.